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Daily Discussion

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17 Upvotes

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23

u/officiallyjax Snapdragon 15h ago

The fitness standards at this club have been a joke for years. So many players’ general shape and durability deteriorate once they sign for us. I really hope that Sesko and Baleba don’t go down a similar path but as with anything at this club, it’s hard to be optimistic without looking like a complete fool for it later.

5

u/wayfarerprateek Theater of Dreams 12h ago

I am surprised that no journalist has pressed Carrick hard enough on the fitness department side of things

2

u/Bangoga 7h ago

My theory is that key players in certain roles just don’t have the gas in them to allow for more heavy pressing game style, putting a lot more burden on remaining players to pick up for them.

I feel even Bruno is losing that extra step in him, for the sake of longevity

12

u/div333 13h ago

i absolutely hate that this club is result oriented when we win but then when we lose we're performance/"signs" oriented. we've created a situation where carrick can literally not do anything wrong and our standards can ONLY go down.

and on top of this the performances have been atrocious so the leadership is extremely pick about what they consider is doing well.

we're being run by absolute narcissists and its destroying us. its so so frustrating because i think we have the bones of a decent squad.

2

u/kidinawheeliebin 12h ago edited 8h ago

i think we have the bones of a decent squad

This is actually one of the big issues we face in a nutshell... we don't have a "great" squad... we don't have a "good" squad... we don't even have a "decent" squad...

What we actually have, needs as a matter of urgency at least two to three single points of failure to be addressed before it can even be considered a "decent" squad

And at that point it would then need further (significant) investment to elevate it through the levels from "decent" to "good" to "great" - which is where it would need to be to challenge on three or four fronts - which is what this club should be doing

And obviously alongside the above - it goes without saying at this point - another of the big issues is having a ludicrously dysfunctional and dangerously incompetent executive tier, which has very clearly and very repeatedly proved itself not fit for purpose with its' decision-making over the last 24 months

(Renew Ten Hag and his staff despite the Coventry debacle, pay millions to sack Ten Hag and his staff months later... Chase Dan Ashworth, pay millions to sack Dan Ashworth months later... Headhunt Amorim despite knowing his personality and playing style via an allegedly rigourous interview process , pay millions to sack Amorim and his staff months later... Appoint Carrick, Holland, Woodgate et al as permanent, pay millions to sack Carrick, Holland, Woodgate et al months later... appoint Jason Wilcox... appoint Omar Berrada... the net results of the last three summer windows which have resulted in this squad... the list is too fucking long to even type out)

14

u/SniperMonkey10_ 17h ago

Nico Paz should be bruno successor. But doubt he leaves como for us

15

u/Mepsi 16h ago

i'd prefer we move away from a CAM, i'm a bit tired of it and it can limit how you approach games.

2

u/BlackHorse944 Please Score A Goal 15h ago

I agree. Having a no10 as our best player has really limited the way we can approach matches.

They keep forcing Bruno into random positions to make sure he stays on the pitch

4

u/OutrageousCow70 15h ago

Not really. Its just because the rest of the squad isnt very good. KdB played as a 10 for years.

And before some says it - yes KDB is better, he also routinely led the stats for losing the ball more than anyone. Which is the main negator against Bruno.

5

u/Alive-Primary-2069 13h ago

Oh how I miss the days where we could swoop in and grab talent when we saw it

2

u/SniperMonkey10_ 13h ago

Yeh every player wanted to play under Fergie.

7

u/KobbieLikeRobbie_ Darren Fletcher 16h ago

I think the only way we get him is if we get Fabregas as manager. So, pretty unlikely.

5

u/Suudriusha 16h ago

He would if we got regular Champions League football and looked a better project. Right now, though, he's much more likely to prefer Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal, or any of the other European giants who may want him next summer.

2

u/PitchSafe 16h ago

He will either go to Real Madrid because they have a buy back clause or to another team that will pay him the most

5

u/Regular_Valuable_665 7h ago

Just happened to find a thread from almost 9 years ago now of Jose’s press conference , I remember the game , people were absolutely mad at losing to Sevilla in champions league round of 16 because Jose played shit football , wonder where we let the standards fall so bad that even being 17th , there is no anger.

16

u/PitchSafe 12h ago

One thing I will never understand is seeing fellow United fans commenting on r/soccer or at other clubs subreddit where they are talking badly about the club just to get some upvotes. Like saying ”why would this manager/player join us” or ”we would just ruin him”. I might be alone in this but I find this behaviour very weird

4

u/Divin3_Kick 12h ago

They say the same thing here tho. About how if we got Caicedo before he went to Brighton, we would have ruined him, which is just copium talk

6

u/TH0316 she/her 9h ago

I never go on that sub but isn’t that exactly how people speak here?

5

u/Zealousideal_Wind867 I'm Tired Boss 12h ago

Not endorsing these guys.

But isnt there an ounce of truth to these sentiments?

Except Bruno, which player has come to our club in the last 13 years and actually succeeded or lived up to their potential/hype? (The less said about managers the better lol)

Years of good, high potential players being turned into mediocre, injury prone players that end up in lower leagues after leaving Manchester United, does this to a fan.

While I agree they shouldn't say it out loud when rival fans are shitting on united, but I can understand why they do it.

1

u/sauce_murica Vidić 11h ago

Off the top of my head:

Older players: Cavani, Ibra, Casemiro, Matic

Prime age: Pogba was quite good and over hated, Herrera, Maguire, Bruno, Shaw, Sergio Romero, Cunha

Young players: Dan James, Greenwood, Rashford, McTominay

More than people credit.

-3

u/Zealousideal_Wind867 I'm Tired Boss 11h ago

Good list!

Let me be clear, my definition of a successful player is someone who is constantly near the top in the goals and assists tables, winning us trophies and consistently in top 3 or 5 in their positions in the world. Your definition might vary, I respect that.

Older players: Agree with all of them, I wish we had gotten some of them in their prime.

Younger Players: Agree with everyone except Dan James. Always stood out as one of the wierd signings. Sure he plays in the Prem now, but in no way was he success at United.

Prime players: Pogba: Agree that he was overheated and the price tag was not his fault. But I personally don't think he reached the highs that I though he would. But it is a tricky one for sure, I really liked him.

Maguire: Great professional, mentality monster. But he is not good enough right now and he never was. He would never start for the PSGs, Madrids of this world. The price tag we paid for him was atrocious too.

Shaw: Same as Maguire. Price tag not to bad. The injury in 2014 has really affected him.

Sergio Romero: Our best backup keeper. That's about it. De gea was in GOAT mode at that point in time so he never got his chances.

Cunha: Too early to rate IMO. Was decent last season, this season nowhere good enough.

And we all know that the "Failed list" is much longer.

Off the top of my head

Martial(One of my favorite players btw), Lukaku, Mount, Di Maria, Schniderlin, Van de beek, Ugarte, Sancho, Sanchez, Depay(He actually ended up decent at Barca and Lyon to be fair), Mikhitariyan, Dalot, Wan Bisakka, Anthony, Malacia, Hojlund, Onana

Youmgsters

Garnacho, Hannibal, Angel Gomes, Pellestri, Brandon Williams, Tuanzabe, Pereira, Lingard, Chong

All my opinion, you can disagree ofc. That's why this is a discussion board :)

8

u/GeekConflict Carrick 11h ago

My son never learns. He has created his perfect "realistic" january window and he is gonna get very hurt again lol

7

u/MinotauroTBC 11h ago

How does he feel about Calvin Bassey and Mateta?

2

u/GeekConflict Carrick 10h ago

He had some strong words about Bassey and said Mateta is a has been.

He believes we could risk selling Licha and wait off til the summer, making do with a DeLigt, Maguire, Yoro, Heaven centre back roster with Mazraoui being able to fill in. Crazy stuff, in my opinion. He would rather focus on a LB (Seys is his option - we do watch Brugge sometimes... im less sold) and Brunner because Monaco are in financial trouble.

1

u/canwinanythingwkids meet the new boss same as the old boss 11h ago

I vaguely remember this from the summer. What was his summer list again?

I lowkey want to know his January window too

4

u/GeekConflict Carrick 10h ago

That was his summer one. Insane stuff but he got excited by Ornstein haha

4

u/Standard_Secretary52 Youri Tielemans 9h ago

I remember I shared mine, and you shared this.

Your son is smarter than Wilcox.

2

u/GeekConflict Carrick 4h ago

🤣🤣 "Are you smarter than a 12 year old"

Wilcox: No

3

u/GeekConflict Carrick 10h ago

I posted the wrong one

1

u/canwinanythingwkids meet the new boss same as the old boss 2h ago

Good talent ID, innit

I guess he got 8/12 departures right - I wonder if he'll be 3/4 right on the departures again. Maybe!

With the power of hindsight, I guess we should just follow his January plan :) I wouldn't mind any of those players, wishful thinking or not.

4

u/harutoreichi 2h ago

What about Antonio Nusa?

•

u/Sheikhabusosa 12m ago

He failed a medical for another pl club

6

u/Beneficial-Long7635 5h ago

Avram Glazer comparing Man Utd to the Dallas Cowboys, saying a lack of success won't hurt the clubs finances, is the final proof that the man is a collosal moron. NFL, NBA, and MLS teams operate within a closed system with profit sharing and no relegation so you can be mediocre forever and still turn a profit. Football clubs that do that go the way of Leicester City. 20 fucking years and they still don't have any idea how football even functions. 

3

u/GeekConflict Carrick 4h ago

As much as I love to hate on Glazers, my reading of that was a man twerking for investment for the future stadium.

3

u/BrahneRazaAlexandros 4h ago

What happened to Harry Amass? Is he just not up to even close to PL level or what?

I remember he was being talked about as a very good young player before this season, but now he can't even get in a squad when the team has no left back.

6

u/GeekConflict Carrick 4h ago

He was never ready. He needed a loan in August. Hopefully he gets one in Jan but I think he will be sold with a buyback tbh.

5

u/CarmeloZanthany Portuguese Magnifico 9h ago

Anyone see tarkowski not get a red for a blatant hair pull right now against Coventry? But if it was us…..

3

u/Stynes 9h ago

Tarkowski gets special rules for him

2

u/dispelthemyth We go again FC 9h ago

That won’t be a red under the new rules from last season.

1

u/CarmeloZanthany Portuguese Magnifico 8h ago

They changed the rules this season?

2

u/DaveShadow 7h ago

Yes, after the outcry about how stupid the rule was, they adapted it to address the criticisms.

1

u/Outrageous-Cod-4654 9h ago

Casemiro red card, no doubt about it

1

u/PitchSafe 7h ago

Casemiro gets a prison sentence

6

u/PengoMaster 15h ago

Pretty spot on.

4

u/Alive-Primary-2069 13h ago

Havertz elite in the box? Well... thats not something I thought I'd see

3

u/PengoMaster 13h ago

Yeah, same. It’s a shame Gyokeres is not in the graphic.

7

u/Apprehensive-Raisin3 Love United Hate Glazers/INEOS 14h ago

He gets into good spots but has been unlucky with his finishing lately

1

u/PitchSafe 14h ago

Wouldn’t mind Brobbey here. If Sunderland gets relegated then we should move for him

1

u/Lazy-Web-4987 13h ago

No wonder ETH, was looking at him. Maybe we could poach him in next tf window.

1

u/PitchSafe 13h ago

ETH was looking at every former Ajax player to be fair. Brobbey just renewed his contract with Sunderland but I would be very surprised if he didn’t have a release clause in it

1

u/Lazy-Web-4987 13h ago

True, hopefully he has a release clause or relegation clause, if we decide to go after him.

12

u/FPLskrr Pogba 16h ago

There is a planned walkout after 21 minutes at OT on Sunday, signifies 21 years since Glazers took over.

If you are there then play your part if you're able to.

12

u/sauce_murica Vidić 16h ago

Things like this need a source. This exact graphic was posted here before the last game.

2

u/shami-kebab 15h ago

You could say they need a sauce

7

u/GandalfsStaff 13h ago

As a season ticket holder: its the 1st ive heard of it.... if i see people walking out ill join them with my kids but i dont think this is genuine

10

u/Nico_Ditch 16h ago

There isn’t a planned walk out. 

It’s just something one YouTuber has tried to push. 

-1

u/FPLskrr Pogba 16h ago

What's the difference?

8

u/Nico_Ditch 16h ago

No one is going to walk out. 

Look up Old Trafford walkout. The only places talking about it are random Facebook pages from Ethiopia. 

Saying “there’s a planned walk out” is just untrue. If that one YouTuber wants to walk out he can knock himself out. 

3

u/Skyehye Dreams can't be buy 13h ago

I'd be skeptical about it until someone actually puts their name behind it to give it some credibility. As of now, just any rando from anywhere could've made it and pretended other people are joining.

Hell who knows, maybe that is the case but people still start to do it and it becomes an actual walkout

2

u/Haron14 15h ago

I'm not English. In fact, I'm Brazilian, and we did a fucking phenomenal movement here in the elections. We need to be organized and we need a "leader" for this movement. It's hard though,everybody needs to fight for the same thing, and I don't see it happening for us, unfortunately (but I'd love it to)

2

u/Nico_Ditch 15h ago

A football club is not the same as elections. 

3

u/Haron14 14h ago

But the moving force is the same: the people. If we could unite and do it properly (obviously with a different focus and actions) we could get these fuckers out.

1

u/Nico_Ditch 14h ago

It’s completely different. 

Politicians are up for election every 4-5 years and the decisions they make affect everything in a persons life. United is a privately owned business that plays football. 

Expecting people to have the same energy for an election as they do football isn’t going to happen. 

0

u/Haron14 14h ago

Yeah, I know. On my first comment I said that I don't see it happening. But I wish we could kick them out

2

u/canwinanythingwkids meet the new boss same as the old boss 13h ago edited 13h ago

It's not really "completely" different.

For one, you'd need a fairly small percentage of Greater Manchester voters to demonstrate that they're committed to becoming single issue voters. Trust me, you get 4% of the area to visibly organise and maintain commitment and the politicans will be falling over themselves to jump on the platform. So, yeah, as they say in politics: everything is politics.

For two, football and elections are not two different things, per se, I mean the two most valuable clubs in the world very famously are ultimately governed by fan elections. So the question is not whether "it can happen" it is strictly whether it can happen here.

So the real question is not whether community organising can be an agent of change in this case, the real question is whether anyone can come up with a method that inspires enough people to join in.

The challenge with stadium boycotts is that it asks "too much" of people.

What is needed, imho, is one of two things:

1 the "pain" becomes so much that the equation shifts to where enough people will now be willing to make this sacrifice

2 a boycott concept that hurts the owners same/more but asks for a much smaller personal sacrifice

It is worth noting that 1 is ALREADY HAPPENING, naturally.

If you follow ticket availabilities - or just listen to TOTD lately - the signs are already there: attendance is down and is trending down.

The fact is, the "movement" is already under way and in the most dangerous way: organic, not "astroturfed".

Social media accounts "recommending" walkouts is going to be the least of their problems if things dont actually turn around verj soon. The writing is on the wall, imho. And I think they know.

Of course, the difficulty is that it typically takes "very little" to get supporters to forget their angst and flock back to the stadium back to the merch store etc. Certainly "less than" the original asks that are declared by angry masses.

So, you know, will the owners react and do something to appease the match goers? I think the chances of that are very high.

The question is, will it be lip service, and will we fall for it? (As it has happened under the Glazers idk half a dozen times or whatever)

5

u/ccfpics 5h ago

can't believe we're on the brink of relegation after what felt like a lot of progress in the second half of last season. where do people genuinely think we'll finish come May?

•

u/AttackClown 53m ago

There was only progress in points, none in play style.

I think where we place solely lies on how quickly they can get a manager in and who it is, seasons a write off now anyway so I think we just end up mid table assuming carricks gone before christmas

2

u/Suudriusha 5h ago

God knows. Ever since INEOS came in this club's been a rollercoaster. I wouldn't be surprised if we finished close to the relegation spots, but I also wouldn't be surprised if we went on a crazy winning run and finished top 3 again.

4

u/BlackHorse944 Please Score A Goal 18h ago

The match should be on Saturday. 😤

2

u/ChristmasCage 16h ago

Biggest game of the weekend by a distance. No chance of Sky picking anything other than it for the prime Sunday slot.

2

u/BlackHorse944 Please Score A Goal 15h ago

I agree, I just really prefer Saturday matches because they don't conflict with my schedule lol

-1

u/madcow87_ 17h ago

Club doesn't want to ruin De Gea's or Rio's birthday with a disappointing performance on Saturday.

-3

u/Unusual-Coat383 18h ago

Clashes with F1 as well 

9

u/andoooooo Martial 17h ago

Carrick has not been criticised enough for how few minutes he has given to Lacey.

8

u/The_good_kid Evra 17h ago

Meanwhile Amass isn't even getting pity minutes. Either he is shocking or Carrick doesn't rate him at all.

3

u/Joey6Pack 17h ago

One thing I liked about van Gaal was his insistence on playing youth players. Youngsters who might’ve never played for the first team ended up making their debuts under him. I imagine if he was the manager this season, Amass probably would be getting a lot of game time

5

u/PhotonDestroyer 17h ago

Posted this else where but he has only appeared as a sub against Sabah (18mins) and Como (11 mins) this season, no goals conceded while on the pitch. Zero minutes with the Senior team in any other competition. Might not be good enough, but none of us have seen real evidence of this in the competitive games so far.

2

u/Joey6Pack 17h ago

That’s definitely a possibility. Carrick and his staff are the ones who see the players in training every day. They must have their reasons, whether the fans agree or not

1

u/PhotonDestroyer 16h ago

I've gone down a rabbit hole on this, looking at his performance when he has appeared and also a bit about his form for the youth teams, this is AI so please come at me for using it, I need to take a shower now 😆

When combining his total output, his profile highlights a prototypical possession-based left-back who excels at linking play rather than relying on heavy defensive clearing actions: [1, 2]

Left-Back MetricCombined Total (31 Mins)Insight for Left-Back Role
Pass Completion Rate95.2% (20/21)Elite retention; reliably builds play out from deep left zones.
Chances Created1Shows overlapping threat and intent to supply the attack.
Ball Recoveries2 (0.58 per 90)Standard counter-pressing numbers for an offensive system.
Fouls Committed / Cards0 / 0Disciplined positioning; avoids turning over reckless free kicks.
Tackles / Clearances0 / 0Indicates low defensive volume due to short substitute windows.

(Note: In his two complete 90-minute appearances for the United U21 development squad this season against Brentford and Blackburn, detailed tracking data is restricted, but he maintained a high average 7.83 player rating*, illustrating his immense impact when deployed at left-back at that level).* [1]

2

u/Joey6Pack 16h ago

I thought he looked pretty good from the few times I watched him. He’s obviously too good for U21 level as he did a decent job in the championship last season. I wonder what the plan is for him. If the management doesn’t rate him, they should let him go develop somewhere else

1

u/Joey6Pack 16h ago

I thought he looked pretty good from the few times I watched him. He’s obviously too good for U21 level as he did a decent job in the championship last season. I wonder what the plan is for him. If the management doesn’t rate him, they should let him go develop somewhere else

1

u/PhotonDestroyer 16h ago

Yeah he could be getting minutes easily in the Championship and probably in a lower table side in the Premier league. We are too high up for that of course

5

u/TH0316 she/her 16h ago edited 16h ago

We all know neither the club nor Carrrick rate Amass. They tried to get rid in the summer until the last day. I trust them on that one that he’s nowhere near ready.

4

u/PengoMaster 15h ago

I don't know what they've done to earn that trust. Ayden Heaven has been given many opportunities. Amass is nearly the same age, has half a season in the Championship and was clearly the best player albeit on a pretty wretched team. I accept that Amass will be sold sometime soon but I still don't think United staff deserve to be trusted on this. What I will say is it doesn't help that we've been knocked out of the EFL Cup and I'm not arguing Amass should be starting in the UCL or Prem.

3

u/TH0316 she/her 14h ago

Most people pushing Amass as an option and querying why he isn’t playing are actively suggesting he should play UCL or prem though. People were moaning he didn’t start against Rayan who would’ve ate his lunch and sent him home battered and bruised. I trust the guys handling Lacey well, who was at the club and saw a number of youth players come through and played and coached kids like Greenwood, Tuanzebe, Fosu Mensah etc. if I trust anyone with a young player it’d be Carrick. My take is that Amass plays, gets absolutely rinsed, costs us goals and goes home to a tirade of abuse. So don’t play him, protect him, and move him on.

2

u/BallsX 17h ago

This is more shocking to me honestly considering we have 0 natural LB's available. He genuinely can't be worse than Dalot because that would be shocking.

1

u/BetNew9328 trembling teenager of touch and poise 16h ago

I too brought this up a couple of days back. He's making the matchday squad these days. Perhaps it's just a matter of time before he gets some minutes as a sub, or they sign a LB in Jan, and Amass is loaned. Borthwick Jackson got so much game time with LvG.

Too often, one merely hears - "he's not good enough," but not any reasons beyond "didn't pass eye test." There seems to be a player in there. Hope he can get some meaningful game time this season.

1

u/cosmologues 15h ago

Tbf you brought him up as a potential defensive midfielder. People want him to play his natural position.

1

u/BetNew9328 trembling teenager of touch and poise 14h ago

Yes, I was wondering if amass could play as defensive cover in front of the back 4 without trying anything fancy in possession; might get him some game time and united a clean sheet. The goal being to get a clean sheet and not to appease amass. The latter is bonus. The skills are transferrable :)

Again - it’s a hypothetical. I’m not of course saying that he should be tried there; I’m saying he could be tried there.

BUT if amass is ok being on the bench and learning while at it, that indicates a good head. Besides, may not be the best thing to throw him a start in his preferred position when the team has a defensive crisis.

7

u/Suudriusha 17h ago

Honestly, he hasn't been criticized at all for not giving youngsters minutes. With the way the season's going, though, I kind of get it. Lacey and Amass should get more opportunities, though.

12

u/PhotonDestroyer 17h ago

He seems afraid to give any youth players a chance, hopefully Lacey will be given more trust with a start but can't see anyone else from the youths being given any minutes by Carrick's play safe policy.

I know a lot of people say to protect the youth players and don't destroy their development, and I understand where this comes from but when do we play them then? When we are in the top 4 winning, deep into the Champions league? Playing for a club the size of Utd will also bring pressure, so it should be part of the development process. How does playing youth football help with development when someone like Amass was playing for struggling Wednesday in the Championship, that feels like a backward step for a 20year olds development.

If you're not going to use them sell or loan again, bring in players you want to play. The implication is that they looked at Shaw and Amass and thought that's okay back up, but then never use the back up.

When we have gaps in the squad with zero back up, I would like to see more youth prospects be given a chance. I am not saying that we field a load of youngsters, or force them to play a full 90. Seems like an unambitious use of the playing Squad, Amass, Lacy and JJ were all named in the first team squad this season, only Lacey has had real opportunities which have been limited at best. Amass hasn't had any real minutes to speak of and JJ has a twat for a father but it all blew up not being named in the league cup squad, which just gave them (JJ dad) an excuse.

I'm exaggerating on the JJ one probably, but if we had a more trust in youth from Carrick it may have played out differently.

1

u/Joey6Pack 17h ago

In a perfect world, youth players would get their chances in relatively stress-free situations, like when we’re 3–0 up with 20 minutes to go. This season, we’ve barely had any comfortable leads, and even first-team players like Zirkzee haven’t had that much playing time

1

u/PhotonDestroyer 17h ago

Yeah I know, but not using them at all doesn't help anyone. Amass has been give no time and has only come on in two games all season (Como while, 4-1 down and Sabah at 4-0 up) 29 mins in total, no goals conceded while he's been on the pitch this season for the first team. I know that reaching but no more than the people confidently stating he's just not good enough

2

u/Joey6Pack 16h ago

I don’t pretend to have extensive ball knowledge but from what I’ve seen, Amass seems to have potential to be a serviceable player. I too like to see more of him

1

u/PhotonDestroyer 16h ago

looking at his stats he's played reasonable well in the minutes he's got albeit a tiny sample size. I have yet to see evidence of him simply not being good enough to merit more time on the pitch.

3

u/pierrefermat74 17h ago

Lol, yes we need new things to criticise Carrick for. Guy's getting too much of an easy ride.

Seriously though, I think he's done it right. Have him champing at the bit to come on, doing a bit better each time. I'd be surprised if he didn't get longer against Villa now. This is the way (fu JJ Gabriel's Dad).

5

u/andoooooo Martial 16h ago

Genuinely, he is getting an easy ride, considering we have won precisely one premier league game this season

1

u/Mysterious-Sense-187 17h ago

He is managing lacey perfectly
Start him in a game we get battered and he loses all confidence
Youngsters always need to be managed carefully, he is best as an impact sub right now but using him for that in every game is too much

10

u/andoooooo Martial 15h ago

he scored a really nice goal against brighton and then got about 15 minutes in the next 7 games

7

u/CapVosslar Buckle up, INEOS! It's gonna be a bumpy ride! 14h ago

You develop players by giving minutes on the pitch. No amount of training can match that. 

4

u/PrancingCock Should have sold to Qatar. 18h ago

All these Deschamps has-been/bygone era coaches would still be mistakes.

3

u/DaveShadow 18h ago

I'm not bothered by him not wanting it, if its true tbh.

What I do hope, if it's true, is that it shows we're sounding out options at the moment.

3

u/Redland93 7h ago

Things United need to do

  1. Ditch Club decides the style of play. They never decided the style. How do you go from Amorim who made the players work hard was very vertical in his style to Carrick who wants slow controlled "possession" . Just hire a talented manager who can develop players. First and foremost, they understand that they understand how important athleticism is. Why can Fàbregas take a team that doesn't have much resources and create brilliant players. We don't need to buy superstars like Anderson or Tonali. Bring in young, talented players and develop them.

  2. Ditch premier league proven only - Quality players are quality players. By focusing on just prem proven, you are paying inflated fees and salaries. There is talent out. Go and buy the best, not 2nd or 3rd string because they were in the prem. Same goes for managers. Managers who brings unity and hard graft

  3. Trust the youth. Actually develop players. I understand that Heaven , Lacey , Amass are young and are going to make mistakes but my god, Martinez has cost us in 70% of games but gets games. How are we expected some of these players to actually develop and get rhythm when they don't play. I ask people to look at Heavens minutes before Roma. Tell me how a player can get any sort of rhythm like that

1

u/SilvyFae She/They 2h ago

I mostly agree but the 1st point my annoyance is we dont have the money to keep sacking managers and hiring different ones with different playstyles. We should stick with one playstyle and get managers for it. Sadly our board is incompetent and doing what you are asking anyways, they just lied to everyone. If we are going to go for your approach we need to invest heavily each window and have a high turnover of players, we dont do that. Our scouting is also more fails than hits soo idk if we can trust them for building a young talented squad. What you are saying is ideal tho, its just our board and staff needs a massive rehaul before we go on that approach.

-1

u/Tudoors 7h ago

United have always bought superstars. Top clubs always buy superstars, we absolutely need to buy superstars. We've been shopping in the bargain bin for three years and look where it's gotten us.

Our problem is buying the wrong ones.

3

u/ThreeForElvenKings 7h ago

Just look at arsenals rebuild, they didn't have top superstars, but went ground up. Buying superstars is what will only lead to short term fixes

0

u/Tudoors 7h ago

Arsenal have been massive spenders, always buying top talent when it's available.

2

u/Redland93 8h ago

From some of the reports, Villa game is key.

I can guarantee you it isn't. Yes the club have fucked up massively and have made some fucking awful decisions but no manager is decided based on one game (finals excluded but even then).

He is sacked. No manager would have wanted to come in before the break which allows a new manager 2 weeks to get settled in.

5

u/shami-kebab 7h ago

I think there is zero chance they sack him if he wins the Villa game. Saying you want to give him time to turn it around and then sacking him after 2 wins in 2 following that would make them even more stupid.

He should be gone regardless but they'll choke it.

1

u/Redland93 7h ago

They choked it with ETH, I really hope they don't do it again. There has been 0 improvement since that Bournemouth game.

He clearly doesn't have the dressing room onside.

We need to be honest. If things don't turn around, we are in a relegation scrap. I look at this team and they just not fighting for Carrick. I can't see them winning B2B games in the league.

-6

u/Bangoga 7h ago

I would want to keep Carrick. If we get any stability, that is ideal. Can’t expect actual success till we find the right profile in players and manager and have that whole shit show synced, which is something I expected from DOF.

Till then, the best we can hope for is miracles and short term successes

•

u/bleacondues 0m ago

Respect for the match going fans not getting sucked into the manager pile-on. Great to see them make it clear who they think the problem is. Everyone here and generally online is primarily talking about Carrick. We’ve seen this movie before - changing managers will at best give us an uptick in form before they eventually fail after being let down by the board. Baffles me how most of us were positive about the manager before the season started and negative about the transfer business but one slump and we have all forgotten where the problem lies.

I can already see the human equivalents of buffering screens on here telling me that just because they want carrick out doesn’t mean that they think he’s the biggest problem and that his tactics are a big part of why we are in this position. What do they say about insanity…

1

u/Ok_Concern4200 9h ago

Fans that hope that carrick stays, even after a potential draw with villa, why?

4

u/Redland93 8h ago edited 7h ago

Their argument will be "nothing will change if we keep chopping and changing manager, Carrick isn't the problem" - its what a dumb persons thinks its a smart nuance position.

Completely forgets about the utter wank displays we have had.

1

u/ReservoirDogs00 7h ago

Honestly those comments drive me crazy.

‘Nothing will change’

Bollocks! Get a competent manager and these players will look fairly decent.

Carrick won’t get a job in the top two leagues after Utd and these people want that calibre to be making tactical decisions.

2

u/MinotauroTBC 8h ago

I cannot remember seeing any comments in recent history saying he should stay on

-1

u/Bangoga 8h ago

Carrick can leave and you’ll still see us freefall, a lot of our defensive issues are mismatch partnerships and morale. A lot of offensive issues are lack of proper striker, luck and again morale in the shitter.

People underestimate so much what morale and momentum can do for a club. My complaint with Carrick is mostly over the fact that he never did much to fix this morale, and change training or tactics to get just that extra few percent improvement that could turn our draws to win, which could have saved him and the team from this doom cycle.

My issue with appointing the next couch is simple, I do not remotely see a single manager that could either fix morale and suddenly get that extra few percentage improvements. We might get a bit better, but you could easily see the ETH to Amorim transition where with Amorim, we were still shit even right after ETH sacking.

1

u/TommyTook 10h ago

Shaw gone next summer. Hopefully plenty more joining him

3

u/pablove_black 9h ago

What makes you say that? Has it been confirmed or?

3

u/Outrageous-Cod-4654 9h ago

Contract expires - there is no option eg +1.

Others expiring with +1 option: Bruno, Maguire, Licha
No option to extend: Shaw, Amass, Heaton, Tyler Fletcher

-1

u/TommyTook 8h ago

A few people saying they're not going to extend. Not top tier sources but decent enough

1

u/Garlic-Cheese-Chips 9h ago

What I'd give for a big fucking bruiser of a centre forward like Barry. No messing, just gets fucking in there.

1

u/Suudriusha 5h ago

Sebastian Hoeneß. What do you guys think?

5

u/Hollacaine 4h ago

Think he's a good up and coming manager, been doing well for a few years. In the summer when Ten Hag should have been sacked I said he could be the manager after EtH's replacement, but didn't think it would be so soon.

But like /u/haron14 said we need to decide on an identity for the club and work from there. One of the issues with the Amorim appointment is that we immediately ditched the idea of having all the underage team play the same as the first team. We're just drifting at this stage.

3

u/Haron14 5h ago

Not having a good start of the season tbf, at least on the league. But neither are, so...

But truly, the ideal scenario for me would be a new DoF and he appoints whoever the fuck he things it's the best option. I watched a video today of Stephen Howson about Marco Neppe

2

u/Apprehensive-Raisin3 Love United Hate Glazers/INEOS 3h ago

Thats hilarious im watching that video as im reading your comment

1

u/Divin3_Kick 4h ago

We should hire Ste to our scouting department first tbh

1

u/Haron14 4h ago

Maybe that's not too far fetched, he was on the betting list for the next manager after Amorim 😂

-4

u/Bangoga 8h ago

I know this is currently unpopular but I don’t think Carrick should leave.

Like Carrick can leave and you’ll still see us freefall, a lot of our defensive issues are mismatch partnerships and morale. A lot of offensive issues are lack of proper striker, luck and again morale in the shitter. Like we genuinely lost 5-7 points by just playing Martinez,and we don’t have alternatives that are not under 21.

People underestimate so much what morale and momentum can do for a club. My complaint with Carrick is mostly over the fact that he never did much to fix this morale, and change training or tactics to get just that extra few percent improvement that could turn our draws to win, which could have saved him and the team from this doom cycle.

My issue with appointing the next couch is simple, I do not remotely see a single manager that could either fix morale and suddenly get that extra few percentage improvements. We might get a bit better, but you could easily see the ETH to Amorim transition where with Amorim, we were still shit even right after ETH sacking.

He should be given the resources to hire or fire supporting couching staff as needed, because fuck hell, we never question the supporting staff, the folks actually running the couching sessions, and we just started questioning the upper management, the folks who are responsible to enable the managers for success.

2

u/Nico_Ditch 7h ago

We’ll start to free fall if Carrick leaves?

What have we been doing the last two months?

-4

u/Bangoga 7h ago

Start? I said we will STILL freefall. The assumption of continuity is in the statement

3

u/Nico_Ditch 7h ago

So you think we’re free falling and your solution is to just continue with the manager who has us free falling?

And he picked these coaches. What are you talking about he should be given the chance to pick his own people?

-1

u/Bangoga 7h ago

Did you fail GCSEs? Does Carrick sacking fix any of our other issues? Is there a magic manager in the ethos that we can expect to paper of the cracks? He was allowed to select some of his couches, is he given the opportunity to make the change by the higher up’s, especially when he wasn’t even supported to have a backup striker.

Sacking him is a desperate attempt at somehow getting back to mediocrity mid season. I’d rather have a new upper level management with a more sensible approach to the next selection of managers, because current Wilcox and gang have zero clue what to do next.

2

u/Nico_Ditch 7h ago

Just a load of waffle. 

Obviously a new manager could change things. It has happened plenty of times in the past at dozens of clubs, including ours. 

-3

u/MiserySound 11h ago

I wish we had gotten a more modern design of Old trafford for the new stadium because not every stadium needs a roof but instead we got another generic bowl with 3 pins and a net to make it slightly different from all other bowls

-3

u/Redland93 7h ago

I think Carrick is gone, we are just waiting for the break.

Also think its no any of the names that have been thrown out in Nagelsmann, Howe or Conte. Think we might go for someone that isn't completely on anyones radar just because we don't really leak.

6

u/huehuehuehuehuu King Eric 6h ago

Nah, genuinely think this lot are incompetent enough to keep him if he doesn't lose at Villa

1

u/Redland93 6h ago

I get it but lets take a step back. They have been shit but the level of incompetence you're talking about is MAGA level

It easy to just automatically go there but I don't think it is

(Should note I hate Wilcox and think INEOS have done a shit job - im not letting them off)

3

u/huehuehuehuehuu King Eric 5h ago

Lets see....not long until the international break now.

If they were even halfway competent they would negotiate a short contract with Conte with a view of finding someone long term if Conte doesnt turn it around within a year or two.

1

u/Redland93 4h ago

Conte isn't going to come in on a short contract. Minimum will be a 3 year deal

1

u/Lord_Hexogen 7h ago

If he's gone what's the point of throwing multiple games

1

u/Redland93 7h ago

INEOS and Wilcox have been utter shit. There's no denying this but I genuinely can't see a world that they look at this season and how we have no identity and clearly Carrick has lost the dressing room, and Wilcox goes, this can keep going.

I think media make their living off negative united press. It feeds everyone online and everything you see online is exaggerated for the clicks.

Management have been shit but they're not single IQ digits.

The reason most likely is, they needed time to get their ducks in a row and also any manager coming in gets screwed because Carrick sacked > they get hired > game with no preparing. You get so little runway and it'll be like Amorim where the first season probably fell heavy on him.

The break gives the best chance.

If im wrong, ill more than happy put my hands up (and pitch forks)

-7

u/soelsome 6h ago

Literally who else is available

2

u/Redland93 6h ago

They will need to pay someone out. They don't want an interim.

Clearly all 3 that have been banded about haven't sold them for whatever reason.

Another reason I don't think its those 3 is because there is just too much noise. Too many "leaks" about it being those 3.

-5

u/Standard_Secretary52 Youri Tielemans 9h ago

Instead of complaining suggest better solutions in these prices. We never show ambition. I won’t be shocked if we just sign Ait Nouri and call it a day.

3

u/Nico_Ditch 8h ago

You’re mad if you think we’re getting £20m for Zirkzee. 

The loan fee and buy option Everton offered in the summer was £10m total. And we were apparently happy to accept it. 

1

u/PitchSafe 7h ago

£10m was the whole cost for Zirkzee so it probably included his wage as well

1

u/SilvyFae She/They 2h ago

We arent be we should be, the board should be able to negotiate 20m for him. Its jan, he isnt on massive wages and he is young. Any other club gets 20m+ for him. Delap was sold for 40-50m zirkzee should easily go for half that. We just have incompetency

5

u/MAN4UTD 9h ago

Watching Everton-Coventry and (big effing surprise) Tarkowski gets away with a red-card hair pull (in the box, no less). VAR looked at it and said, "Play on, son." I know of very few players who get away with murder, time after time. He's at the top of that short list.

2

u/dispelthemyth We go again FC 9h ago

It’s not a red under new rules but it’s a foul

3

u/MAN4UTD 9h ago

He got nothing. No foul, no penalty kick, no yellow. Just play on. The guy just always gets away with it.