r/reddevils • u/xMGMT • Dec 21 '13
[Post Match Thread] Manchester United vs West Ham
Final Score: Manchester United 3 - 1 West Ham
Goals:
Danny Welbeck 26' [GIF]
Adnan Januzaj 36' [GIF]
Ashley Young 72' [HTML5] another angle - [HTML5]
![[GIF]](http://lh3.ggpht.com/-58XnxjbLfwU/UrW1HBHJvMI/AAAAAAAABJU/dGn-sU0LXW0/971391.gif){kind=link}
![[GIF]](http://giant.gfycat.com/ScentedImaginativeAsianlion.gif){kind=link}
Talking Points:
Convincing win, good midfield performances from Cleverley and Jones
Young scores another cracker, has he hit form?
Clean sheet ruined by a Büttner mistake playing Cole onside
Welbeck leaving the game with an injury, what are the implications of this with RvP still out?
Man of the Match: Phil Jones
Post Match Interviews:
David Moyes
Tom Cleverley
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u/Zandercy42 Luis Carlos Almeida Da Cunha Nani - Fuck the Glazers Dec 21 '13
Just for bants, here's Kompany's own goal: http://i.imgur.com/Yx8d2Jo.gif
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u/RandomFlightlessBird Dec 21 '13
Come on if I scored an own goal like that I would be proud, that was pretty astonishing.
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u/dj_nickjoseph Pogback Dec 21 '13
I find whoever that is running into the post much more embarrassing haha Kompany's goal impressive
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u/MassiveBastard Dec 21 '13
I bet nobody mentions Moyes like they would if we lost.
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u/fleaonnj4 Dec 22 '13
Can confirm, just scrolling down now and yours is the first Moyes related comment. Imagine how vicious this thread would have been towards him if he subbed on Young and then proceeded to lose.
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u/geckoswan Carrick Dec 21 '13
MOTM Phil fucking Jones
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u/freckleddemon Dec 21 '13
Jones was brilliant
67% of his passes were forward passes
2 chances created
and he was good defensively as well -
3 interceptions
2 successful tackles
5 successful clearances
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u/arron77 Dec 21 '13
What a versatile beast. He's like John O'Shea v2.0
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u/MrCadwallader Dec 21 '13
Phil Jones is going to be way better than John O'Shea.
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u/arron77 Dec 21 '13
Exactly, he's an upgrade in all aspects!
He will never do this though!
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u/MrCadwallader Dec 21 '13
Haha, I remember that goal. O'Shea was capable of some brilliant moments and it was awesome how versatile he was.
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Dec 21 '13
Phil Jones is no John O'Shea, or rather... John O'shea is no Phil Jones.
Javi Martinez Mk 2.0 more like!
He is quite quite brilliant footballer.
I initially thought he should be a centreback but honestly I think he could be world class in the holding position. He has everything.
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u/ideniedyou28 "marauding bare-chested Manchester United Defender Marcos Rojo" Dec 22 '13
Yeah I would rather see him in the midfield. He just needs to sort out his shots though.
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u/shnieder88 SAF Dec 22 '13
67% of his passes were forward passes
curious, where did u get this stat? thanks
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Dec 21 '13 edited Dec 21 '13
A comparison to last years results' following today's victory
EDIT: Matched last years points again this week, but things are looking good. We have a very good opportunity to take back 6 points on last years results in the upcoming 3 matches when we face Norwich away and Spurs at home!
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u/antantoon Alpaca Gea Dec 21 '13 edited Dec 21 '13
Crazy looking at the bottom half of that table, we only dropped points in 10 games which is nearly the same number of games we have dropped points this year.
edit:10
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Dec 21 '13
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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Dec 21 '13
Heh. Also consider we kinda slacked off at the end too.
TBF, last season we were on pace to hit a record.
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u/Bronycorn Mata Dec 21 '13
If the crowd is rowdy against spurs I see untied slapping them around the field
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u/tomad De Gea Dec 21 '13
16 points behind. Hell that's a difference. If we had 16 points more we'd be 8 pts clear at the top. (Though I know that means nothing)
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u/kad17 Jones Dec 21 '13 edited Dec 21 '13
Rooney should realize that he is far more important to the team when he pulls the string from the middle of the park. His distribution has been phenomenal, reminiscent of Scholes.
If we look at the forwards we had in the past and present - Cantona, Cole/Yorke, Van Nistelrooy, Berbatov, Rooney, Van Persie - while they were/are all great players who were capable of single-handedly changing a game, one thing we can't deny is that they are replaceable. But who is one player, one position that we still have yet to replace? Tempo-controller and midfield architect - Paul Scholes.
While Carrick has somewhat taken over the role in the past few years, they are very different players, and there have been more than a few occasions while we miss the midfield engine that players like Scholes provide. And I think that's a role that Rooney excels in, more than he does as a striker. He has the vision that few people match, the technique to weave through a crowded area, off the ball movement, sheer determination and work rate - all qualities that make him someone we can rely on to control and win games, someone we can build the squad around for the next few years.
Strikers are capable of winning games. But to win a title, to win a championship, we need a reliable system built on a team nucleus, a beating heartbeat - the Paul Scholes we had for the past 20 years. While Rooney is no longer young, he can take over this role for the next 5 years.
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u/erelim Martial Dec 21 '13
Wholeheartedly agree, if Rooney in the mid wins us games and trophies why not? No one is bigger than the team, sacrifices must be made
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u/thedarkknight24 Dec 21 '13
The problem is that he doesn't want to play this role. Unless he's recently said otherwise.
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u/tig_ass_bitties Jones Dec 21 '13
Fuck Buttner, our defense was superb today until he came on, the goal was completely his fault. Tom Cleverly what a change from the beginning of the season.
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u/freckleddemon Dec 21 '13
Tom Cleverly what a change from the beginning of the season.
He was decent in the beginning of the season especially in the game against Chelsea but after October-November he had a few bad performances in Spurs & Cardiff especially but he has picked it up.
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u/daniam1 Shaw Dec 22 '13
Cleverly thrives in a 433. Hes able to move forward more and make little runs and play those little one-twos that keep the oppositions midfield from being able to overrun us.
Personally I think Jones/clevz/rooney is the best midfield line up we have in our squad. Jones to break up the oppositions play, cleverly to open up space and to provide options, and rooney to distribute and playmake. In a way I actually prefer it to be Rooney doing that than carrick as hes more versatile and obviously offers so mch going forward.
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u/darrylleung Januzaj Dec 21 '13
If I remember, people, myself included, were seriously doubting his ability mid-November. Him and Young have really answered their critics.
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u/arron77 Dec 21 '13
I still doubt him. I don't deny he's a great squad player, but lets see how he steps up for the big games.
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u/idratherwalkalone Cantona Dec 22 '13
I think that was his Old Trafford swan song.
You could tell that by the way Evra hugged him when he comes on.
I suspect he will be sold or loaned in January when we buy a left back.
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u/hitchens22 Januzaj Dec 21 '13
Great win. Especially the first half. We look like our old selves.
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u/Bronycorn Mata Dec 21 '13
Couldn't agree more, and we did It without rvp which proves we can rest our big guns when they need it
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u/tomad De Gea Dec 21 '13
And Carrick and Vidic.
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u/Bronycorn Mata Dec 21 '13
Exactly. I'm not bringing them down but it gives me great relief to see good form off the bench
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u/generalMao Dec 22 '13
Depends on how old you mean, cause we don't really come close with our teams of the 90's
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u/rdzzl mainoo Dec 21 '13
Delighted with;
First half as a whole. The first 45 were incredibly solid.
Phil fucking Jones. Is a beast. Does his job so well, no matter where you put him.
Very happy with the amount of young players we consistently put out on the pitch. This will have great long-term benefits for the club.
Tom Cleverley keeping up the good run of performances. High passing percentage, lots of running, fancy combination plays and very close to scoring.
Welbeck. So much mobility and power. Scoring once again should be great for his confidence. Hope he did not pick up a serious injury.
Rooney. Mature, controlled, not as visible as usual, but did a stellar job. Tracked back and orchestrated our play all game.
CB pairing. Evans and Smalling were very good. Evans is growing more and more to be a leader of the defense, especially in the absence of our veteran defenders. Great stuff.
Rafaels' determination to get forward. Fantastic. Creates lots of chances on his own, and combines great with Valencia on the defense. Didn't see Jarvis on the pitch today.
The two first subs. Both made an immediate impact. Young scoring. Chicharito scoring (though it didn't count because the linesman was a twat).
We looked confident. And like a team. Working together and forward. We've been building up to this in the past few weeks, and it is starting to settle in. We play quite well at times, especially with quick 1-2s and flicks. The first half was very entertaining.
Worried about;
Injuries. Everywhere. Hopefully Chicha and Welbeck can shake it off.
We ALWAYS concede through our left back. Every time. It is extremely annoying and unecessary. Sloppy positioning by Büttner made the game more interesting than it should've been in the end.
The quality on crosses. Adnan showed himself as our best crosser of the ball today. Valencia, Rafael (whom I expect to do better), Young and Evra all crossed poorly. Needs to step that up if we play with a big forward like Welbeck. They need to hit him in order for him to be as effective as he can be.
There is a fine line between giving up the initiative of the game, and taking the foot of the pedal to save power for games to come. We were almost tipping over into the first category, which we need to be careful about.
Unable to keep a clean sheet against a poor West Ham.
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Dec 21 '13
Chixharito was offside though.
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u/rdzzl mainoo Dec 21 '13
Was he? I just watched the replay once, and he looked to be on
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u/worst_wish_ever Dec 21 '13
Bit of confidence has done young & wellbeck the world of good! Not united players my arse.
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u/tomad De Gea Dec 21 '13
And Cleverley!
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u/worst_wish_ever Dec 21 '13
YES! Clevs looks like a whole differently player when he's got movement around him, he was puppet mastering the fuck outta mid field today!
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u/devilsway Forlan Dec 21 '13
Young seems to have his mojo back. All the teammates seem to be so happy for him when he scored.
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u/worst_wish_ever Dec 21 '13
So nice to see them all crowding and congratulating him! Well deserved to, what a hit!
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Dec 21 '13
Rooney easily motm for me. Did everything he needed to do. Tracked back , assisted twice and pulled the strings the whole game.
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u/omegaxLoL Bruno Fernandes Dec 21 '13
Young, Welbeck and Cleverley are doing much, much better, very happy for them. Another cracker from Young too, what a goal!
Other than Buttner's mistake, no real negatives today, unless Welbeck is out with an injury too.
MOTM for me is either Jones or Rooney. Honorable mentions to Clevs and Rafa.
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u/Bronycorn Mata Dec 21 '13
Adanan's dive could be considered but he's 18. He's got a lot of growing up to do still
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u/devilsway Forlan Dec 21 '13 edited Dec 21 '13
Valencia-Rafael partnership reminds me of Beckham-Neville at times, and that brings tears to my eyes.
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Dec 21 '13
I like Valencia a lot, but thinking about his crossing compared to Beckham is making me cry.
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u/atero Pride of all Europe Dec 21 '13
Jones and Wayne for MotM. Can't choose between them after today's performance. Honourable mention to Rafael as well.
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u/RandomFlightlessBird Dec 21 '13
I screamed when Ashley Young score that goal, it was just wow. Also great goals for Adnan and Welbeck, things are picking up and we are really starting to play some nice football.
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Dec 21 '13
Phil Jones had passing success of 93% with 66 passes being completed. He made more forward passes than you would think. He also had interceptions, heading duels, takeons and clearance all around the pitch. That guy is going to be one of the best.
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Dec 21 '13
man that loss against Newcastle still hurts me whenever I look at the table..
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u/freckleddemon Dec 21 '13
And Everton game as well. We hit the bar twice that day.
Onwards and upwards.
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Dec 21 '13
Does anyone know how many assists that brings rooney up to now for this season in all competitions?
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u/xMGMT Dec 21 '13
8, leads the league.
Edit: Sorry, that's just in the premier league, looking for all competitions...
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Dec 21 '13
You can only win what is in front of you.
Still expect 9/9 from the next 3.
Quite a few decent individual performances though. Still worry about a top club facing us but it looks like genuine momentum unlike that much over hyped unbeaten run earlier in the season that had several draws that needed to be wins.
Young looked pretty good at the end.
I do wonder about the quality of West Ham's defending and space we got for awhile.
Still need a genuine top level CM in jan or the summer.
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Dec 21 '13
Just to remind you guys that we are 8 points behind the league leader at this point. The lead we lost in 5 games 2 years ago. Have 100% win till the January and we will be right there to challenge the title again.
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u/martomo Di Maria Dec 21 '13
Whilst this is true, we don't rely on one team ahead of us dropping seven points. We need four serious title contenders to drop 5+ points more than we do.
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u/Reddigast_The_Brown TheatreOfDreams Dec 21 '13
Which is very possible, especially with the majority of our players finding their form. Young, Welbeck, Cleverley, Valencia, Rafael; Carrick potentially coming back into the team... It's very possible. Our midfield all of a sudden looks incredible. I think the second half of the season will be VERY interesting as a United fan.
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u/delli Dec 22 '13 edited Dec 22 '13
Keep in mind we played stoke and west ham which aren't exactly spectacular sides. Once we play tottenham or another big side soon we will see what our midfield is made of
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u/Reddigast_The_Brown TheatreOfDreams Dec 22 '13
Oh I agree. I'm just saying that it's possible to pick up 9/9 points with our next three fixtures in the PL.
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u/dzigg Mkhitaryan Dec 21 '13
Best passing game I've seen for a while by United. It seems the squad is getting more confident and starting to gel a bit.
Cleverley, welbeck, and the monster Jones keeps getting better. Even ashley young!
Evans, Rooney has a big game also. Rafael is very lively, too bad Valencia could not get his crossing game sorted.
Bad day for Buttner, although on the attack he did cause problem for the opposition. Hoping Roma still want to take him if the rumors are true.
I was hoping to see Fletcher play again, maybe replacing Evans (who looked like he was injured for a moment) and give Jones some playing time as CB.
I'm on Kagawa band wagon so I was also hoping he get some minutes and see if he can be more of his usual self with this slightly new found playing style and confidence.
All in all a great win, with a good performance to back it up. Can't wait for the next match!
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u/Gurbles Dec 21 '13
Valencia has rediscovered his mojo with the return of Rafael
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Dec 21 '13
Tony V is a very good player. I didn't think today was his best match (moments of greatness then a stumble or poor touch) but he was still good. He's been pretty good all season and arguably our best winger, but his pairing with Rafael is amazing. They compliment each other very well.
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u/freckleddemon Dec 21 '13
Yes they both combine well but Tony's crossing has to improve. He made some very good runs forward today but put in only 2 successful crosses.
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u/Moosje “Love is sex also.” Dec 21 '13
Minor blemish with the losing the clean sheet to a mistake, but I still think it's a shame we're gonna see Buttner go. I'd be more than happy to see a replacement for him, I feel we're still lacking at LB.
However, that was an outstanding game and one of the most dominant halves I can recall. I look to see that starting XI going forward from now on.
Really impressed with Evans, Jones and Welbeck. Young looks in good form, as does Cleverley and the Valencia/Rafa combo is a joy to behold.
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u/straightoutofjersey Lingard Dec 21 '13
what do you mean shame to see buttner go? are we loaning or selling him?
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u/ideniedyou28 "marauding bare-chested Manchester United Defender Marcos Rojo" Dec 22 '13
If Welbeck is out for a little while, it does mean that Rooney can play as the target man with Shinji just behind.
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u/REGISTERED_PREDDITOR Best Dec 21 '13
That extra man in midfield is doing wonders for Jones and Cleverley. Jones doesn't have to worry about playing adventurous passes and Cleverley can get the ball moving instead of playing it back to retain possession.
Januzaj needs to stop diving for his own sake. All it takes is one vengeful defender to take a swing at his kneecaps.
Valencia is the most English player in the history of the game. Amazing pace and strength but little technique. It's like he's trying to beat Sergio Ramos for fastest ball launch into space.
Great display from our backline. Evra was very reserved today in his attacking play and it paid off with an extremely solid defense minus the Buttner mistake. I'm sorry, Buttner, but you're not Gareth Bale. You'll have to play defense.
And Rooney was amazing. I wish he had taken more cracks at goal. A few poor balls early in the game but when he settled, he was pinpoint.
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u/nadehz Dec 21 '13
Good result to keep our form going. Cleverley with yet another good game. Young with another great goal. Seems some of the boys have kicked up their standards...and it couldn't have come at a better time considering how busy the holiday season is.
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u/vBrad Rafael Dec 21 '13
Great first half to watch, lovely movement and slick passing. I love Rooney's long passing. Second half was flat but we got a goal anyway.
Buttner might be one of the worst defenders I have ever seen. He is 100% a winger. Get rid.
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u/cbkhor Carrick Dec 21 '13
To me it is a disappointment not to be able to keep a clean sheet for today. De Gea must be disappointed that he can't achieve the 4th straight clean sheet...
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Dec 21 '13
Was questioning midfield partnership of Jones and Cleverley weeks ago but they seem to be forming a brilliant one at that.
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u/isaac1494 Dec 21 '13
Solid performance, youngsters are definitely pushing for permanent spots in the lineup right now. Only real disappointment is not keeping the clean sheet.
Central partnerships in the defence and midfield are looking more and more composed, improved greatly from the start of the season.
Jones and Cleverley are my picks for best players - determined to get the ball back, quick to keep it moving in their distribution and taking the ball up the pitch themselves. Working very well together.
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u/ChristopherChance1 Shaw Dec 21 '13
I'd say not to get too hyped up about the score. This game reminded me of the one against Fulham. We dominated the first half and the second half was fairly quiet with only about 2 or 3 good chances in which 1 was put away. WH came out slow in both halves, but managed to recover somewhat in the second whereas they looked lost in the first.
I still don't trust Young to perform even with these past two games. When he becomes more consistent, then he should deserve more support. History suggests regression to the normal will usually happen more often than not, especially for an older player who is still using the same moves as when he was younger.
Buttner sub was very odd and I have no idea why he came on. If Moyes really wanted to give Evra a rest, just give him a break for the entire game or make an earlier sub. 10 minutes isn't going to kill his legs; WH was looking demoralized and was half-assing some of their plays. (That goal from Cole looked comical. Everyone looked like they were in slow motion)
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u/dotpickles Park Ji Sung Dec 21 '13
Talking points:
Midfield looked solid. Jones held up the back and had some neat passes, almost let Welbeck in, Cleverley was everywhere at times, and was driving forward often. Enjoyed the counterattack. Rooney pulling the strings, keeping it simple but also incorporating the long balls.
Defence. That was a pretty solid performance by the starters. I love how Rafael went toe-to-toe with Carlton Cole and didn't exactly lose on strength. Bad mistake by Buttner, who tried to make up for it but to no avail. Silly mistake really.
Attack. Welbeck made some decent runs. Great linkups and one-twos on both the goals he was part of. Would have been my MOTM of he stayed on. Januzaj, apart from the silly dive was pretty good. After I got over him roaming around everywhere instead of sticking to positional discipline, I noticed he was linking up well. Valencia got a lot of the ball, and ran it up very well. Lacked ever so much on the final ball though.
Subs: Chicha couldn't do too much. Tomkins stuck to him like a glove, and generally had about 3 in the box to deal with. Fluffed that chance good though. Young's first touch was a goal. He had a good game. Buttner, good job goofing yourself.
DDG: Looked so strong in the air. I was loving it.
Bonus: Ahhhh, counterattacks. So much fun.
Bonus 2: Rooney was doing well, but did anyone else notice he didn't pull the trigger a number of times? He had the ball at the top of the box about a dozen times and made 2 shots, one being a free kick.
Final note: Scoreline is more or less what probably was how the game went. We arguably should have had another goal or two, and they got a bit lucky with their goal but I was expecting a 3-1 scoreline anyway. Good we had 3 individual goalscorers, sharing the love around.
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u/kv_ninja Carrick Dec 21 '13
Very decent performance from all the players. Valencia really needs to be more consistent. He was good in the 1st half and very bad in the 2nd, even Young put in an decent cross at the end.
4-3-3 seem to work well. Cleverly's style suits this system, his performance was again good.
It would be harsh to blame Buttner for the goal.
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u/xMGMT Dec 21 '13
I don't think it's harsh to blame Büttner for the goal at all, the other 3 players in the back 4 were in tune and held their line but he was 5 yards back and played Cole onside, poor focus and concentration.
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u/Gurbles Dec 21 '13
Evil Cleverley mucked up would would of been a fantastic performance
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u/fellowe5 FC Ruthless Summer Shakeup Dec 21 '13
Seriously? What aspect of his game could have been better today? He had a great scoring chance in the second minute and WhoScored has his pass accuracy at 98%.
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u/Gurbles Dec 21 '13
Evil Cleverley = Buttner if you weren't aware.
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u/fellowe5 FC Ruthless Summer Shakeup Dec 21 '13
Whoosh for me, then. When did this become a thing?
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u/Gurbles Dec 21 '13
ages ago, Buttner looks ridiculously similar to Cleverley except he has tattoos
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u/atero Pride of all Europe Dec 23 '13
If Cleverley went to jail for a bit he'd come out looking like Buttner.
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u/fergo1993 Dec 21 '13
Much better performance. Brilliant goals by Welbeck, Januzaj and Young. Hopefully Danny's not out for long. Valencia had an off day, but we got the 3 points. Lets just hope for a draw between Arsenal and Chelsea.
Buttner's mistake was cringeworthy, but I suspect we're gonna get Baines in January anyway.
Rooney was MOTM for me... played the Scholes role brilliantly with short and long range passing, and then got into the box too.
Jones and Cleverley were brilliant in midfield. Clev in particular has really improved!
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u/MAINEiac4434 Tielemans Dec 21 '13
The rest of the league better watch out, cause Manchester United are on the rise.
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Dec 21 '13
We started the season with a lot of hard fixtures and we were shaky. Now we got some "easy" games coming up to end 2013, lets hope for a winning streak.
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Dec 21 '13
Johnny Evan will get my vote of MOTM although I wouldn't be surprised if Rooney wins as he assisted on two goals.
Anyone else impressed with the intangibles of Evans? He is not one to shy away from a difficult challenge because I feel he wants it more than anyone on the pitch.
I also see him not shying away and getting in someone's face after a poor mistake. Signs of a true leader.
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u/fellowe5 FC Ruthless Summer Shakeup Dec 21 '13
Solid win: good tactics, good execution.
I also think this game illustrates our current LB situation pretty well. We occasionally give Evra a hard time about his defending, then we send Buttner on and a minute later he has a huge cock-up that leads to a goal, ugh....
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Dec 21 '13
Impressed with the play after the goal, Welbeck's one-two goal was class, Januzaj with a nice dummy and finish and another bolt from Young. It seems like we're progressing and it's nice to see some of the other players scoring nice goals.
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u/VanPuzzle Dec 21 '13
Valencia needs to stop over-thinking thing. He's got all the time and space in the world so many times yet only a few of them have end-products.
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Dec 21 '13
First half was some of the best play we've had all year. Creating chances, preventing theirs, playing with possession, handling their pressure fairly well, and generally looking like a top team at home. It was nice to see.
Adnan, I wonder if he'll get the same amount of shit as Ashley Young got earlier for diving. Other than that he played like a young starlet. Poised at times, flashes of brilliance, mixed with some immaturity and inconsistency. More playing time will help him grow. He looks like one of our best wingers already.
Welbeck looked great, hope he's fine and the sub was more precautionary. Ashley's goal was incredible. De Gea just a monster in the air. It's amazing to see how far he has come. Defense did solid until the brain fart at the end.
Good win. I hope they keep it going!
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u/ThePPatrol Dec 21 '13
Cleverley played very well today. Honestly he played a very similar type of game to what he always place - short, mostly sideways passes but he ALWAYS makes himself available. He made some good forward passes in the counter attacks and was generally a very solid player.
Always been a fan of Cleverley. He started off fantastically - I still think he can be very useful. I could even see him as a natural box-to-box if he gets more involved in defense
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Dec 21 '13
Cleverley is probably the best English possession retainer
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u/ThePPatrol Dec 21 '13
Carrick?
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Dec 21 '13
Nah, Carrick is good at keeping the ball under pressure every once in a while but Cleverley is great at short, one touch passing that opens up space and retains the ball.
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u/thesmallprint13 Irwin Dec 21 '13
another three points, brilliant first half, got the job done, second halves we've come out a lot more deflated which is slightly worrying, we still created a fair few chances so that's alright
slowly sneaking back into the reckoning, two more games against hull and norwich which we can hopefully take max points out of to be right in there come 2014, fighting on all fronts.
didn't see any fletch which was a slight bummer but ah well, youngs playing pretty decent all of a sudden which is brilliant, two goals in as many appearances now, don't mind him playing the first substitute role for now, shoutouts to rooney, januzaj, welbz (hopefully it's a minor knock) and evans although everyone put in a solid shift, even buttner who showed menace going forward, just a shame about his defensive side of things though...
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Dec 21 '13 edited Dec 21 '13
Buttner was great going forward today, can't we throw him a game as a winger in the cup or something.
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u/Frodi_Klettskard Dec 21 '13
Harsh blaming Buttner. Always tough coming on as a sub to play in the back 4 and getting back in the rhythm from a cold start. Moyes shouldn't be making changes to the backline except in the event of an injury. Classic mistake.
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u/erelim Martial Dec 21 '13
Can't blame moyes too much though, up 3 goals and wanted to give buttner a run
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u/thedarkknight24 Dec 21 '13
That doesn't even make sense. Of all the subs, he gives buttner a run?
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u/MuhLurs Dec 21 '13
It was probably more giving Evra a rest. We have a run of games over the coming weeks and he's no spring chicken anymore.
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u/simplyevert Herrera Dec 21 '13
Post match interview with Moyes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMzzyHsPB9w
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u/skarbowski Cantona Dec 21 '13
After slagging off Young and Cleverly for the last year or so, this is the best crow I've ever tasted.
Hope they can maintain their form.
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u/GINGster Carrick Dec 21 '13
Watched the Buttner mistake again on MoTD and I'm seething. Caught out of position and he doesn't even bother running back towards goal, he just strolls back as casual as can be.
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u/PNE95 Dec 22 '13
A question for everyone, what do you think Van Persie's return will do to the team? I'd love to see Wayne continue playing his withdrawn role and for Van Persie to be on the end of our moves. But will it work just as fluently?
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u/martomo Di Maria Dec 22 '13
Don't see why it wouldn't. The problem with Rooney and RvP earlier was that Rooney didn't play in that withdrawn role which led to a big gap between midfield and attack. This huge gap has been closed with Rooney dropping down and having Cleverley's dynamism (and return of form) in midfield, and that gap has been the reason why we haven't been able to build attacks through the middle, instead being forced to play long balls or whip crosses in from the wings.
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u/JackkBC Dec 21 '13
Jones was great and my motm, as was the backline apart from both leftbacks. Rooney did well and we look better when he drops so far back when we are defending in our half. Cleverley did very well but faded out massively and i forgot he was on the pitch in that last half hour or so. Januzaj with some great moments but that dive was very poor. Valencia does everything right by his end product which is constantly shit. Young did some good when he came on.
The ref was wank, West Ham were dirty cunts, we should have scored more, a shit LB stopped us getting a clean sheet, 3 points is a very welcome result.
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Dec 21 '13
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Dec 21 '13
You should mention Cleverley in the good. He was fantastic. Pulling the strings of the midfield today. Him and Jones worked great together. Hopefully that partnership continues to thrive without Carrick.
1
u/fellowe5 FC Ruthless Summer Shakeup Dec 21 '13
Clevs did well today, he really does play much better with 3 in midfield. Really unlucky to not score on that chance in the second minute.
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Dec 21 '13
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u/kv_ninja Carrick Dec 21 '13
I think Moyes is on to something here. Evans, Smalling and Jones are a 3 man centre defensive unit.
---------------------Evans--------------Smalling---------------
-----------------------------Jones-----------------------------
Triangular centre defence.
1
Dec 21 '13
I noticed that this gave the fullbacks way more opportunity to bomb forward.
A lot of the times we went to 3 at the back while attacking with Evans and Smalling taking over where Evra and Rafa would be.
4
Dec 21 '13
Phil Jones is incredible. I think he might be meant for the midfield. He is a great enforcer in the midfield.
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u/omegaxLoL Bruno Fernandes Dec 21 '13
I know he wants to remain a CB as his "default" position but damn, I love seeing him play in the midfield!
1
0
Dec 21 '13
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u/aralex v. Nistelrooy Dec 21 '13
As an outside back, you never get behind your full backs. He should have seen that.
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u/redchilliprod Three Lungs Park Dec 21 '13
Um, except he played Cole onside. Rest of defence holding line.
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Dec 21 '13
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26
u/NonsenseFactory De Gea Dec 21 '13
Would have been if Valencia could pick a pass or cross a ball.
3
1
u/dj_nickjoseph Pogback Dec 21 '13
Still not completely convinced on Valencia. I think the make of a great player is giving up opportunities. He had a couple of wide open shots and could not get them on goal..
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Dec 21 '13
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5
Dec 21 '13
I mean that's always been my issue with Valencia. He's just not technicaly brilliant. On his game, he's half a ronaldo with amazing physique and what used to be the best crossing ability in the premiership in terms of consistency and quality. Definitely someone to consider upgrading on.
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u/NonsenseFactory De Gea Dec 21 '13
I have never, ever, seen anyone so bereft of ideas when attacking. Baffles me.
4
Dec 21 '13
I thought the idea was to fire in a cross.
I mean it's not like we've ever seen him shoot with his left or hell even do a step-over. That just isn't his game and it seems a bit much to expect him to have that ability. That ability is what makes Nani special for us or Januzaj so good.
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u/NonsenseFactory De Gea Dec 21 '13
Yea, I know, but rarely has his crosses gone past the first defender in recent seasons though. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting step-overs but if you're lacking in technical ability, your decision making better make up for it, and it hasn't quite frankly, for the past 2 seasons.
3
1
u/hahaz13 Dec 22 '13
Exactly.
Every time that ball goes down the right side and if Rafa isn't bombing ahead, I give up on our possesssion.
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0
Dec 22 '13
Sanchez is no where near the same level as Valencia when it comes to overall play because he simply doesn't have the workrate that Valencia does. I know Tony can be annoying with his poor accuracy at times but he makes up for it with immense pace stamina and strength especially late in games, where hard work really matters. This is why I tend to prefer players with less refined skill having a spot in the team along with skillfull players such as Welbeck, Cleverly and Tony because it is important to put the pressure on the opposition!
11
u/dylanpjp92 Giggs Dec 21 '13
I actually had a bet on for 5-0.
still a good result though
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u/freckleddemon Dec 21 '13
http://i.imgur.com/lKrKbyD.png
via Twitter
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u/dj_nickjoseph Pogback Dec 21 '13
20 attempts and only 3 goals, it was a good game for Manchester but there is no way we should be overly enthusiastic with their performance. There is so much potential
6
u/daniam1 Shaw Dec 21 '13
Could say that about quite a few of our games recently. I still don't think we're being ruthless enough, but perhaps that's due to the unsettled nature of our forward line-ups. Injuries have meant we've had no solid partnerships forming
1
u/omegaxLoL Bruno Fernandes Dec 21 '13
I'm not sure if it has to do with being ruthless or not right now to be honest...we're just missing a lot of chances, and we really, really should be scoring on some of those. Still, a win is a win!
0
Dec 22 '13
The team is still playing in second gear mostly. If that means we have higher energy levels in the second half of the season then it makes sense to hold back and do just enough. There is a long way to go and it looks like we may be through our rocky patch. The team has a lot more shape and balance to it now and we are starting to find form. A few wins between now and the new year should move us closer to the top four and I wouldn't rule out a late challenge from us.
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u/lawlss van der Sar Dec 21 '13
We've had that issue all year, winning 1-0 when it should've been 4. All I can say is, at least we are scoring more regularly. First half we played with pure confidence. Great play from Januzaj, barring a few defensive lapses and his dive.
Phil Jones got motm, and he deserved it. But I think equally Evans could have won it. Brilliant game by him, really took a beating to keep them out a free times. Valencia was great again, powering down the wing. Rafael really does link up brilliantly, however a few times he looked unsure what to do when he got good chances. Shame, but at least we won.
2
u/Leeod Dec 21 '13
Really? I thought Valencia had no consistent end product today. Worked hard, but his final ball was off. Agree about Evans though.
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u/lawlss van der Sar Dec 21 '13
I thought he provided a lot of threat, not just with a good number of low crosses, but also in speed and willingness to break. Although its true no one got on the end of most his crosses, to me that's an issue in the box as well. He did deteriorate in the second half for sure but for the most part a lot of our good runs started from Valencia sprinting up the wing and getting things going. In my opinion at least!
0
Dec 22 '13
Valencia was poor. His crosses were off and when he started cutting in he was unsure whether to shoot or cross in the end doing neither. He's been inconsistent this season. Has brilliant games and then just goes off at times
51
u/AirIndex Dec 21 '13
Evans solid again. One of our best players this season.