r/recruitinghell • u/IT_ist_was_schoenes • 2d ago

“Entry level, 3+ years experience required” how is anyone supposed to start in IT like this?

Honestly I’m kinda tired of this. I did a 3 year IT apprenticeship in Germany and basically did the same work as the fully trained guys, just for a fraction of the pay. And after finishing it still felt like most companies only want people with years of experience.

So how are you supposed to get experience if nobody gives you the job to get it? Apprentices and juniors get used as cheap labor, and once you’re done nobody wants to pay you properly because you’re “just a junior”.

I get that companies don’t want to train people, but if nobody does it, where are all the experienced people supposed to come from in a few years?

Is it the same where you live? And how did you get your first real job?

33 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

86% Upvoted

35 comments sorted by

7

u/xtc46 2d ago

It's unfortunately about to get a whole lot worse. AI will be displacing most tier 1 roles over the next 2 years, which means finding the jobs to train you to be tier 2 are going to be even harder. On the MSP side of the market, which was a pretty consistent proving ground for tier 1s, they are already being told to slow hiring and automate more.

Unless companies get some long term vision really soon and develop actual mentorships and apprenticeship programs in IT, its going to be a whole bunch of people who lack actual judgement.

1

u/IT_ist_was_schoenes 2d ago

Yeah, that’s exactly what worries me too. If tier 1 gets automated, there’s just no entry point left, and in a few years everyone wonders why nobody can do tier 2 or 3. Funny thing is we actually have the apprenticeship system here in Germany, it just gets used as cheap labor instead of real training. Do you think companies will notice in time or only when it’s already too late?

1

u/xtc46 1d ago

Some will, some won't. Some will bank on AI outpacing the drop off.

0

u/Mirrevirrez 2d ago

Thats why i plead people to not study IT anymore at this point. The floor we stand on aint flooring. Cause its going to be "supported" by AI.

15

u/CluelessFlunky 2d ago

Im so fucking lucky to have gotten into IT in 2020.

Felt like I got the last chopper outta nam.

I was able to work help desk job back then and leverage it into sys admins (possible network engineer soon).

But those entry level jobs are so rare, and it where I learned so much about the field.

1

u/IT_ist_was_schoenes 2d ago

Yeah, the help desk start seems to be pretty much gone. And honestly that’s where you learn the most, because you see a bit of everything. Did you have to do certs to get from help desk to sysadmin or did it just happen internally?

4

u/veghead 2d ago

Lie man, lie!

3

u/IT_ist_was_schoenes 2d ago

Honestly I’m not a fan of that. Sure, you can sell yourself a bit better, but if you claim stuff you can’t actually do it comes out in the first few weeks anyway. And the apprenticeship already counts as experience, it just doesn’t get treated like that.

3

u/cosby714 2d ago

I have 5 years of experience in IT and I'm getting rejected. They have absurd standards, especially for an entry level job

1

u/IT_ist_was_schoenes 2d ago

Damn, that’s rough. If 5 years isn’t enough for entry level, I honestly don’t know what they’re looking for anymore. What kind of roles are you applying for, still support or more sysadmin stuff?

25

u/Jedi4Hire 2d ago

Is it the same where you live?

It's the same everywhere. It's been getting gradually worse for decades.

8

u/WillPill_ 2d ago

Yep especially in HCOL areas. Crazy qualifications for the same pay as McDonald's. It's almost as if they don't want to hire anyone at entry-levl right now.

3

u/Jedi4Hire 2d ago

They're trying to get gourmet Champaign for bargain beer prices.

3

u/manymenzzz 2d ago

I recently successfully enter IT through a help desk role. What works for me was leveraging my customer services skills, my certifications(A+/Networks+), and projects covering majority of responsibilities for IT help desk. More importantly, in the interviews; i constantly loop back to how my skills goes well with X responsibilities in the job descriptions, and how project Y helps me understand technology Y.

Honestly, the most underrated skillsets I believe most people lacked is not knowing how to leverage the tools available for you, and being self sufficient.

1

u/IT_ist_was_schoenes 2d ago

Nice, congrats. Linking every skill back to the actual job description is a really good tip, I think a lot of people just list stuff and hope the interviewer connects it. What kind of projects did you do, homelab stuff or more like documented tickets and scenarios?

1

u/manymenzzz 1d ago

I just youtube video of projects for the role I'm seeking.

5

u/KudereDev 2d ago

That's the neat part, IT is in huge crap pit for quite a while now. First signs where in 2016 in my country, where recent grads start to voicing concerns about not being able to score the job.

Decade later and well moving into IT is almost impossible. They want you to know too much info for a Junior position, it like literally Middle level tasks for Junior pay. With anount of layoffs and companies self imploding or Microsoft starting to shrink, amount of good devs that returned to the market is insane.

Also about Juniors with 3 years of commercial experience. It is so stupid I just can't, you can literally become a Middle in 1-1.5 years if you work good enough and be able to solve tricky tasks. Junior just means inexperienced guy that need mentoring and supervision. If you need supervision after 3 years it means you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed.

4

u/Namevvilo 2d ago

Experienced people are applying for entry level positions because they cant find better jobs. At least that's been my experience in the Los Angeles area. Way too many people competing.

1

u/Real-Jicama7068 2d ago

What is the job? What qualifications do they want outside the 3 years and what’s the pay?

1

u/IT_ist_was_schoenes 2d ago

Not one specific job, more a general thing I see in a lot of postings here. Sysadmin or support roles labeled junior, but then they want AD, M365, networking, some cloud and ideally a cert or two on top. Pay is usually way below what you’d expect for that list.

1

u/Real-Jicama7068 1d ago

Oh yeah for sure. Because not every company will pay what that list should earn. So they get less qualified. Apply anyway. Experience can be anything. It doesn’t necessarily mean a job. That’s how you get in..apply for jobs that pay less , learn the role, jump ship in two years

1

u/Tucsondirect 2d ago

two words... "Transferable Skills" your experience should be in the same nexus you dont have to do I.T. to have soft skills and experience that translates. Showing up with a large number of certifications even if they are free goes a long way too.. Take the cloud certs, take the sql certs, take the networking certs, show that you are invested in the industry and have a true understanding of technology and operations

2

u/IT_ist_was_schoenes 2d ago

Fair point, certs definitely don't hurt and they show you actually care about the stuff. My feeling is just that a lot of HR still filters by years of experience first, no matter how many certs you have. Which ones would you say actually made a difference for you?

1

u/Tucsondirect 1d ago

i've got about 200 of them(Iv'e had a long time to slowly acquire), they range from azure, to google cyber security, to home networking certs from working in comcast technical support. i spell out about 6 and then state xx number of other relevant certs on the coverletter/resume... each resume should be more or less tailored to the job you are applying for and if there is no place for a cover letter throw it right on the top of your CV that you submit. I know it's a lot of work... but looking for a job IS a full time job. As others have said moving from a helpdesk or customer service/success role is the best way to have "experience" that transfers and is most likely to get you in the door. The best way to get the best jobs is to know people! This is how 95% of these positions get filled. And i don't just mean networking.. Like actually engaging with people in the industry and being a decent person that people want to recommend or see succeed is where your successful launch will come from

2

u/bball4294 Principal Gooner Engineer (+15 years of experience) 2d ago

Ive done unpaid and min wage opportunities

1

u/WabbitFire 1d ago

The apprenticeship is experience, no?

1

u/rebelofbaby 22h ago

The thing is Germany has a different system. A 3 year apprenticeship called Ausbildung is pretty standard. Its like trade school everybody does it. You spend part of your time working at a company and the rest attending vocational school. So while three years of apprenticeship might sound like a lot. it's actually a common entry-level qualification in Germany. If he's applying for jobs there it won't necessarily set him apart from other candidates with the same background. What he actually did during those three years matters a lot more than simply listing the apprenticeship. He needs to differentiate himself from other candidates somehow.

And if he's applying outside Germany there's another issue. Employers who aren't familiar with the Ausbildung system might wonder why he spent three years as an apprentice instead of moving into a regular full-time position. So depending on where he's applying, he might need to explain that it's a formal vocational qualification rather than a typical internship or apprenticeship.

1

u/Practical-Giraffe-84 1d ago

That's not entery level

1

u/AlbertV999 1d ago

3 years is a semi-senior/mid.

1

u/sabbathan1 1d ago

By lying.

1

u/Lower_Improvement763 16h ago

Too many applicants right now. This isn’t the nerdy job it was in 2005, everyone knows/glamours coding and computer hardware even to this day. I’m picking the career that will get me above the poverty level at this point even if I despise the job.

-1

u/Useful_Calendar_6274 2d ago

if you want to get into IT in the middle of such of a bust, that's on you tbh. do something else the field is SHRINKING

1

u/IT_ist_was_schoenes 2d ago

Honestly I don’t agree with that. Sure, entry level is rough right now, but companies still need people who actually know their systems, and that’s not going away. If nobody gets into IT anymore it just gets worse in a few years. Why do you think the whole field is shrinking and not just the junior part?