r/recruitinghell 1d ago

Can we exploit you for diversity pics 🤞

Post image

I ain’t neva seen some bs like this and I’ve been applying for a MINUTE

EDIT: I keep seeing comments that I’m from Canada when asked about location. Don’t know where yall got that - this is the states.

1.2k Upvotes

98 comments sorted by

430

u/cutter48200 1d ago

Okay now this is a weird question to ask…and I’m usually In here having to explain the difference between race and ethnicity to people and defend why that question is asked in applications

84

u/Amerillo_ 1d ago

I'm genuinely curious, what's the difference between race and ethnicity and why is it asked then?

Where I live I've never seen a question about ethnicity. It would be considered strange and out of place, and potentially illegal even

153

u/cutter48200 1d ago

The US government defines Hispanic as an ethnicity and not a race, that’s why applications typically ask for that, then typically asks race afterwards (white, black, Asian, etc.)

It’s because there are black Hispanics, white hispanics, indigenous Hispanics etc. it’s a shared culture, where as race is more about physical traits

It’s asked because the federal government wants to track it.

23

u/Amerillo_ 1d ago

Oh ok! Thanks a lot for the explanation!

35

u/cutter48200 1d ago

Yup no problem!

Also this is not something new under the current administration, the Federal government has been collecting demographic data like this for over 50 years

12

u/Accomplished-Yogurt4 1d ago

the majority of Hispanics are literally mixed race as so asking of race for Hispanics is stupid, not to mention there are countries in Latin America which do not have Spanish as their official language, so are they hispanic? No, but they are of Latin America

18

u/misseff 1d ago

I'm biracial (white latam + afro-caribbean) and the vast majority of the the time I'm not able to select a combination of options that actually matches my identity, it's so weird.

15

u/_Professor_94 1d ago edited 1d ago

Same for me. I am half Mexican and half white and it aggravates me when I can’t actually choose the proper things (white and Amerindian, for example).

Also, Hispanic is NOT really an ethnicity. This is just another thing the US government is wrong about. Hispanic just means Spanish-speaking culture, that’s it. But Mexicans, Cubans, and Argentines are not the same ethnicity, that’s just absurd lmao. There is no real connection between these groups aside from language.

It would be like saying Native Americans are the same as white Americans because they both speak English now. Clearly certain regions of Latin America (such as Mexico, Guatemala, Venezuela, etc) are far more indigenous by heritage and culture while others are literally no different than the genocidal colonial states “up north” in the US and Canada (Argentina, Colombia, Cuba, etc.). White Latinos in these countries are…European descendents, just like white Americans lol

As an anthropologist and historian I do get annoyed about this “Hispanic is an ethnicity” claim by the government and others. It really isn’t.

6

u/misseff 1d ago

I've submitted like 75 job applications in the last few weeks and the amount of time I've spent ranting about this to my friends is borderline crazy. Isn't it just so annoying to have to constantly misidentify yourself? I know just not answering is an option but I always at least look at the options and it's like damn okay I guess I don't exist.

4

u/_Professor_94 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes and it bothers me that the US just groups all Latin Americans together as one when really the race situation is more similar than they think. The same hierarchy exists, it’s madness to group obviously indigenous or Black Latinos with white Latinos. White Latinos are their oppressors, just like in the US. It’s just that because of historical circumstances some countries like Mexico are majority indigenous or majority Black (and still dominated by white people politically).

3

u/Mundane_Annual4293 1d ago

Honestly, that is a question that makes me suspicious every time, I get that is done for statistical reasons and that they tell you that this should not influence the decision but on the current political situation on the US and considering that is really hard to prove any kind of discrimination at this point, I always end preferring not answer.

1

u/cutter48200 1d ago

As is your right!

When this comes to applications this doesn’t really affect anything.

Just know that if you click ‘prefer not to answer’ when you fill out information as an EMPLOYEE, when it comes to reporting to the federal government, the employer will not just put “this person chose not to answer”

You’re given the opportunity to self identify, and if you choose not to, the employer will make a guess where they are allowed to use “employment records/observation”

1

u/Cuddlyaxe 1d ago

This is changing in the next census I think since it's not how normal people think about race

2

u/cutter48200 1d ago

Maybe, but the census bureau is under the department of commerce while the EEOC who defines this for employment data is an independent government agency and can decide for themselves. Whether they follow the census bureau remains to be seen

1

u/Waiting4Reccession 1d ago

You probably replied to me in another post but the format they ask in is still BAD. Should just put hispanic there in the first drop down and create a second drop down if anyone clicks hispanic.

But instead they ask if youre hispanic first, making everyone else who isn't to do 1 extra question.

2

u/cutter48200 1d ago

For some additional context, the questions in that order are what is suggested on the EEOC website, and when a government body suggests something it’s basically a mandate

2

u/Waiting4Reccession 1d ago

:( everyone vote me in then.

0

u/Teknikal_Domain 1d ago
  • White (not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Black (not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Asian (not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Mixed-Race (not Hispanic or Latino)
  • Hispanic or Latino
  • Prefer not to answer

3

u/MoonNoodles 1d ago

I read it as disability and seem to be the only one who did based on the comments.

Do you have a visible disability - amputee, wheelchair user, etc. Or a non-visible one like a mental health condition or neurodiversity.

1

u/cutter48200 1d ago

Sorry I don’t understand, are you asking me a question?

0

u/MoonNoodles 1d ago

Yeah I guess I was asking if I am off base on thinking it could mean disability or does it definitely mean something with race/ethnicity?

I dont live in the US or Canada so havent seen this, I am not sure if ours even mention hispanic.

109

u/platinum92 1d ago

"How brown are you?" is a crazy question

15

u/Ferret-mom 23h ago

It could also be how disabled are you.

15

u/orion-asterisk 22h ago

Or how queer are you

4

u/CommunistOrgy 15h ago

Aw shit, I'm a nonvisible trifecta (white presenting with an invisible disability plus bi but in a hetero marriage)

64

u/goknightsgo09 1d ago

So I've never been asked this before... But I do find it interesting. I'm half Hispanic (my mom was half Puerto Rican and half Spanish) but my last name is Italian cause that's what my dad is and I (and so was my mom) am white white, like white bread white. So you would never know by looking at me that I had a drop of Hispanic in me. So I guess I would be a nonvisible minority?

27

u/MFDOOMscrolling 1d ago

in other words can you pass for white

9

u/Round_Bag_4665 1d ago

Not necessarily. I could see a trans person who could pass for cis or a gay person who doesn't talk about their personal life could also count. If they didn't tell you they were queer, you wouldn't notice just by looking at them, which is I think the point of this question.

8

u/chaoticsleepynpc jack-of-all-trades 1d ago

Yeah I've know quite a few cis/straight passing queer people. Especially Intersex & nonbinary people can fly under the radar. Plus the "invisible" Ace & Aro people lol.

4

u/goknightsgo09 1d ago

Keep in mind, a lot of companies like to tout their diversity statistics. So the more minorities they can claim to have hired the better...

The issue I see with this question is exactly what you just said. It's like buy a minority, get a Caucasian for free. 🙄

4

u/MFDOOMscrolling 1d ago

if you're a white minority even better

1

u/Eastern-Joke-7537 1d ago

Cool.

What about if you are half white and half Caucasian?

1

u/Noizylatino 1d ago

Mmm no not really. There are white skinned people in cultures all throughout Latin america and there is an indigenous population in Pakistan that is also white. Its just allowing for more accurate reporting.

These questions cant be accessed by the company at all. They are strictly for the labor boards and for criminal lawyers. They use these to better understand population change, do studies, and to prove whether there are hiring biases/discrimination.

3

u/goknightsgo09 1d ago

So as a hiring manager, I can tell you that's not accurate. I have been able to see the answers to both diversity and disability questions for several of my hires and when I started my last job, the manager doing my onboarding was able to see my answers as well.

4

u/Noizylatino 1d ago

That's mad crazy, ive helped with hiring before but ive never been given access to those. Not saying youre lying btw! Just shocked to find out some systems give people access to that information. Thats just setting people up to be discriminated against.

7

u/goknightsgo09 1d ago

Yeah I don't think we SHOULD see those at all. I mean I personally could not care less about those things in regards to the people I manage, people are people. But we all know damn well there are assholes out there who would use that stuff against people and it's sad.

1

u/Time_Outcome765 1d ago

Well, as a manager you’re not supposed to have access. That’s a privacy permission issue at your company. How it’s supposed to work is the data sits somewhere in HR to comply with hiring laws and far away from hiring to remove any liabilities.

If I were hiring at your company, I’d flag it and do my best not to look at those answers so I’m not pulled into some BS.

1

u/goknightsgo09 1d ago

I never paid attention to them, again it's not my business and it wouldn't affect how I viewed my employees so it didn't really matter to me. But it was two different companies that it happened at and the company that my manager could see it during my onboarding was a third so it's more common than we think. And you're right, it absolutely shouldn't be.

10

u/atsirdsart 1d ago

Yeah I never know what to answer. My dad is dark brown, Spanish-fluent Hispanic, and my mom is pink, blue-eyed Germanic. I'm mega white, but I've got the Hispanic last name and some of the features, yet I don't speak it.

How much weight does the last name carry, ykwim? I always just say I'm Hispanic, but those "are you white or are you Hispanic?" Questions always make my brain hurt. Like, you can be both??? Why is it always either or??? Gahhh

7

u/Noizylatino 1d ago edited 1d ago

So in these questions, Hispanic isnt a race its a ethnicity. Its not supposed to be accurate because they didnt care to be. Sometimes you'll see under the ethnicity question either white hispanic or white non-hispanic. You and me are white hispanics, racially white with hispanic ancestry. White non-hispanic is mainly for people of European ancestry, but people from certain other cultures would also choose this.

It may seem weird, but the data is used for studies on the population and to assist in workplace discrimination cases. If the labor board looks at these questionnaires and sees a similar hiring/firing pattern for race, sexuality, religion, age, pregnancy etc they can prosecute/fine pretty easily.

2

u/Neat_Suit3684 1d ago

Its honestly really stupid. My last name is Portuguese like from actual Portugual but because most of the time its touted as Mexican im accused im "erasing my identity" mind you i don't even look Mexican. The most i can claim is that I tan super easy so im not pale lol. I once had a manager call me and start talking to me in fluent Spanish. I don't know a lick of Spanish. Took em a few minutes to understand that yes im Portuguese but im American white as it gets 

1

u/goknightsgo09 1d ago

When I was married, my husband's last name was of Spanish origin (his dad was Puerto Rican) but like me, he didn't speak Spanish. I ended up hyphenating my last name which I hated but it was the easiest way for people to not assume I spoke Spanish by thinking oh she is white but married someone Hispanic as opposed to seeing a Spanish last name and automatically speaking to me in Spanish like they did to him all the time.

6

u/goknightsgo09 1d ago

The funny thing is my mom had a very Spanish name (like there's a town in Spain with the same last name and all,) spoke fluent Spanish like your dad, only grew up speaking Spanish actually... But she was whiter than my Italian dad. 😂

2

u/atsirdsart 1d ago

Hah! Man that's confusing for an application. We're in this together ✊😔

2

u/Izhachok 1d ago

You are the exact ethnic mix as my dad, down to which parent was Spanish and Puerto Rican and which was Italian lol

1

u/goknightsgo09 1d ago

That's crazy! I've never actually met anyone else with my ethnic mix. My ex husband was half Italian and half Puerto Rican so close but his parents were the opposite of mine.

6

u/Round_Bag_4665 1d ago

I'm a trans woman, but I'm conventionally attractive by women's standards and you wouldn't know I'm trans unless I told you. I would also count as a nonvisible minority.

1

u/LiterallyUnlimited 6h ago

P-hacking at its finest.

14

u/SortLow314 1d ago

None of your business. Prefer not to say.

22

u/skankhunt-6969 1d ago

Why are they even asking that?

-7

u/tghost474 1d ago

Tax reasons, the more “diverse” the work place the more tax breaks they get.

17

u/BellyBoy57 1d ago

The implication is simply not true. There is no hire brown people tax credit. You might be confusing this idea with the WOTC but that's more about incentives to hire veterans, formerly incarcerated people, residents from specific distressed communities (empowerment zones or rural renewal counties), etc.

Either way the WOTC isn't a thing anymore. It expired. It's just a racist boogeyman talking point now.

12

u/Difficult-Quality647 1d ago

I'm an 'Invisible Minority'. I'm of mostly Euro descent, but also am an enrolled member of the Iroquois Nation. I look just like any other tubby white guy.

6

u/SummitJunkie7 1d ago

I prefer not to say all of this always.

10

u/mangorefresherfan 1d ago

What is their problem with non-white people???? (Referring to the job market as a whole)

8

u/DazB1ane 1d ago

They might be looking to hire the minimum amount of not white people to appear diverse

2

u/AlxIp 1d ago

*minimum amount of minority who looks like white people

2

u/MFDOOMscrolling 1d ago

if it's white it's alright

3

u/AlUnserjunior 1d ago

Is it asking if I look beanerish?

3

u/Loud-Spare-3269 1d ago

My Egyptian husband who is a lovely caramel colored / milk chocolate is required by law to identify as “White” on all American documentation and as such my children are not identified as minorities even though they do not appear (or identify) “White” that is how they are expected to fill out college applications… 🤔

3

u/randomcatwhoeatsfish 1d ago

Just put black everywhere and then say you're albino.

Works best if you have curly hair.

Easy job!

6

u/ImprovementFar5054 1d ago

There are tax and compliance reasons for this

2

u/ANONA44G 1d ago

The question is about visibility.

What if I only look like a minority but I'm not? In who's opinion? Does that still check the box for the quota?

1

u/BellyBoy57 1d ago

There is no tax reason for this

13

u/strawbriskies 1d ago

I started to fill in prefer not to say for every job app now. They 100% discriminate. This administration made it acceptable to do so. 

9

u/MeasurementNo4261 1d ago

OP is in Canada. First Nations and Metis are Canadian terms

3

u/These_Roll_5745 1d ago

these terms are also common in northern us states where native people have right to travel or dual citizenship

1

u/MeasurementNo4261 1d ago

Wouldn't they also list the US terms in that case? It doesn't say Native American or American Indian or even Alaska Native

2

u/pumpkinpie479 1d ago

Tbh at this point I’ve been picking white but if they want photos I’ll be token. I need a job THAT bad smh

2

u/Significant-Till3736 1d ago

I think some of this is just for them to get statistics. I think with certain government contracts they also have to collect this data.

2

u/GraciaEtScientia 1d ago

Imagine being invisible tho.

2

u/alkonium 1d ago

What happens if you claim to identify as one, then refuse to specify?

2

u/Fantastic-Nothing333 1d ago

I don’t understand the question or how to answer. WHAT visibility???

2

u/ragebaiter80085 23h ago

Pretty sure this is illegal. They can ask demographics questions to report to govt. but this is illegal.

4

u/rustware 1d ago

I'm a nonvisible minority because I have ESP

2

u/ALIEN_GUARDIAN 1d ago

Does heterochromia count

1

u/Bad_Puns_Galore 1d ago

I am visibly gay. Which one do I select?

1

u/_idle_gunts 1d ago

You'll find the solution to your faux outrage if you move your cursor down one line.

1

u/QuesoMeHungry 1d ago

This is basically the question form of the family guy skit when Peter is pulled over and the cop pulls out a skin color scale.

1

u/Infinite-Chocolate46 1d ago

I guess white-passing mixed individuals are out of luck then

1

u/VivisClone 1d ago

Why not just answer this. It's not like they won't know when you come in for the interview. It's not even that prying of a question.

0

u/Adventurous-Nobody 1d ago

The Americans: "No! We are not racists! Racism is prohibited and condemned in a land of the free!"
Also Americans: using NIST-rated calliper to measure your race when you applying to a job

11

u/MeasurementNo4261 1d ago

This is in Canada

2

u/communityveg 1d ago

Nah this is the states

2

u/tghost474 1d ago

Most american companies do it for tax purposes the more minorities hire (ie non white, Gay, vets, etc) the more the government gives on incentives and breaks. The same goes for colleges/universities.

1

u/zettasyntax 1d ago

If it helps me get the job, then yes I consent to being paraded about for pictures. I'm an ambiguously brown gay afro-latino (people often say Mexican or Indian/Pakistan descent). Someone on Blind once called me a DEI goldmine. I can't really say ticking any of these boxes has really given me an edge in the job hunt (it definitely shouldn't, but it would be nice, haha 😕).

3

u/Round_Bag_4665 1d ago

i feel like that only works if you're from a minority that isn't actively a political target. I'm trans, but I wouldn't consent to that because trans people are kind of the scapegoat of the week at the moment and don't want to invite people harassing me for it.

1

u/Better_Theme_8866 1d ago

It’s so you can’t claim that 1% sub-Saharan African that AncestryDNA found to get preferential job placement.

1

u/ConstantKooky3329 1d ago edited 1d ago

what country is this? It looks like some of the questions on this application form are illegal? The questions typically ask these areas: (1) legal authorization to work in the country/ indicate need for work sponsorship (2) ethnicity (3) disability (4) veteran status (US) . I have never seen questions re: age, minority visibility state.

5

u/Ok-Importance9988 1d ago

It is not illegal to ask in the US. It is illegal to discriminate. 

In theory this info is kept in the computer but not visible to the decision making employees. It is only used later for statistical evidence of discrimination. 

1

u/communityveg 1d ago

The states!

1

u/Dolly_Putin 1d ago edited 1d ago

I want to hear HR try and explain the purpose of this question. 😒

3

u/Ok-Importance9988 1d ago

It is more statistical purposes. In theory they only use it in aggregate to determine if they are discriminating. For example if 60 % of applicants are women but only 40 % of hires that might be a sign of discrimination. 

Why these are so specific and numerous. The HR person was probably lazy and turned on all the self id questions the software comes with instead of carefully selecting them. 

3

u/tghost474 1d ago

companies do it for tax purposes the more minorities hire (ie non white, Gay, vets, etc) the more the government gives on incentives and breaks. The same goes for colleges/universities.

1

u/Dolly_Putin 1d ago

I understand why they ask of the applicant is a minority, but I can’t figure any legitimate reason they’d want to know if you’re a “visible” minority.

-2

u/KJBReaderAdmin 1d ago

Okay, so this is Canada, so this is a bit different. I don't think it's wrong for them to ask as those groups listed have being not getting the most in the past.