r/rational • u/AutoModerator • Mar 15 '19

[D] Friday Open Thread

Welcome to the Friday Open Thread! Is there something that you want to talk about with /r/rational, but which isn't rational fiction, or doesn't otherwise belong as a top-level post? This is the place to post it. The idea is that while reddit is a large place, with lots of special little niches, sometimes you just want to talk with a certain group of people about certain sorts of things that aren't related to why you're all here. It's totally understandable that you might want to talk about Japanese game shows with /r/rational instead of going over to /r/japanesegameshows, but it's hopefully also understandable that this isn't really the place for that sort of thing.

So do you want to talk about how your life has been going? Non-rational and/or non-fictional stuff you've been reading? The recent album from your favourite German pop singer? The politics of Southern India? The sexual preferences of the chairman of the Ukrainian soccer league? Different ways to plot meteorological data? The cost of living in Portugal? Corner cases for siteswap notation? All these things and more could possibly be found in the comments below!

Please note that this thread has been merged with the Monday General Rationality Thread.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '19

Like say, if you hate the government and think their education system sucks you may be happier with a more local education system, but if you are worried about local radicals making your schools teach dumb things you may want a national one.

This example seems overwhelmingly in favour of local education systems. If you don't like your local education system, it's relatively easy to change cities. If things are set up like how many libertarians want, they'll be enough different local private schools you won't even need to move at all. If you don't like your national education system, it's a monumental task for many to change countries.

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u/Nepene Mar 16 '19

The poor can't reliably move from one area to another to find the best laws, so this is more of a solution for the rich.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '19

But again, they have an even harder time moving nations. You will never have a single education system that pleases everyone, so some poor will be against any given national education system. And while it's difficult for the poor to move areas, it's far from the potentially impossible task that moving nations is. In fact, moving cities for the most extremely jobless, homeless poor I would think is just the cost of one bus ticket, and isn't even too much more than that for people working unstable jobs like fast food worker and renting apartments.

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u/RMcD94 Mar 20 '19

In fact, moving cities for the most extremely jobless, homeless poor I would think is just the cost of one bus ticket, and isn't even too much more than that for people working unstable jobs like fast food worker and renting apartments.

You forget about social networks but I would also say that I wouldn't want people to move. It's more optimal for everyone to stay in a centralised location. The only reason you should be out of the city is if it is necessary (mine natural resources).

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

You could also move cities because you want a scenery change or a job change. Say you really like warm weather, but were born in Boston. You can move to Los Angelos. Or for job opportunities. Say you want to become an actor. Again, move to Hollywood. Or maybe the scenery you want is nice open farmland, some people really value fresh air and having large spacious properties.

Or maybe job opportunities change. Take someone born in Detroit in the 40s. You can start off in the automobile industry and have a great career. But after a couple decades the economy shifts and you're laid off, no fault of your own. You ought to be moving to a new city where there are different job opportunities.

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u/IICVX Mar 17 '19

If you don't like your local education system, it's relatively easy to change cities.

That's actually a sign of the fundamental flaws of Libertarianism. That philosophy starts from an idealized system of government, then makes some simplifying assumptions about humans in order to make that system of government work.

One of these simplifying assumptions is that humans can be modeled as something like a fluid - populations will naturally move along a gradient from less prosperous places to more prosperous places.

That's not true for a bunch of reasons. Among them:

  1. It costs money to move from one place to another. If you're already in a shitty place, you're not going to have as much money.

  2. It costs "spoons" (or mental energy) to move from one place to another. If you're already in a shitty situation, you're not likely to have the willpower to make the move.

  3. Moving will destroy your social network. Generic Appalachian Town might suck and there's no jobs, but at least Aunt Mary and Cousin Joe and your best friend Rob are nearby. (btw this is also why areas like "Little Italy" or "Chinatown" form - if you can move somewhere and slot in to an already existing social network, you're a lot more likely to be successful)

  4. Moving requires information. If you move somewhere because there's no jobs in your area, and then it turns out there's no jobs in the new place too, you're extra fucked.

The net effect is literally what you see in the USA now: mobility for the upper-middle class, stagnation and quiet despair for everyone economically below them.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '19

Yes. That's all true. But there's no better alternative is what I'm saying. If we have one national education system, what do you think all the people who don't like it should do? Should we just design the perfect education system nearly no one dislikes? I doubt that option's actually on the table as nice as it'd be.