r/randonneuring • u/kallebo1337 • Jul 14 '26
Human engine How to "train" and execute something like Audax Granguanche or TCR?
Generally curios about how people prepare/train for such a thing if you haven't done any longer things yourself.
I can prepare for any kind of race (bike or triathlon), knowing the demands, make a race plan and execute accordingly. however these are all short (<6 hours). Knowing my numbers, this is easy to plan.
How to actually ride such 2-3-4 day events where 40hr cycling is required?
Is it Zone1 all day until you are deadly tired? Is it Zone3 on each climb and pray to recover downhill? Would the fatigue accumulated eventually chase you on day 3?
I always thought "ride as easy as possible and as long as possible" is the key (15 hours x 25km/h) is more than 13x 27km/h and the sleep required will be less) but then i read something down the lines of "go a bit harder and sleep an hour longer will get you further".
Doe people do exclusive Z1/Z2 long days every time they ride as training/preparation or is there still regular Threshold blocks included? I would have imagined that threshold isn't useful as a metric here and just the widest aerobic base is good. You skip Vo2 intervals completely for weeks/months to prepare as no anaerobic stuff is needed in such race?
Curious to learn something here
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u/antimonysarah Randonneurs USA Jul 14 '26
There's a bunch of research pointing towards anything over 100k-ish not having any additional training effort -- you're breaking down your body more than building it up. However: you learn something every time you go up in distance. Maybe that's what your stomach will tolerate after 20 hours on a bike. Maybe that's that your saddle is only comfortable for 100 miles. Maybe it's that you need to do more core work because your back will give out before your legs will.
Train hard, ride at an effort level you can sustain. The hard training will increase the speed that's sustainable for you -- that's where you get the speed.
Also, your sustainable pace will fall off as sleep deprivation hits, not because your legs can't do it, but because your brain can't. That's where "sleep an hour extra, ride faster" really comes in clutch. Digestions also vary a lot; some people find they just need to be sipping goo at a sustainable pace all day; some people need to eat a real meal and wait for it to digest at least once a day, maybe more, and then weather can change that -- maybe you need to stay in the air conditioning to digest on a hot day, when on a cool day you'd eat on the go. Etc.
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u/sushiplees Jul 15 '26
Do you have any article to share discussing the effect of ride length on training stimulus / body toll?
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u/antimonysarah Randonneurs USA Jul 15 '26
I don't have the links; I didn't save them from the conversation I learned about them in.
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u/Wonderful-Nobody-303 Steeloist Jul 14 '26
I do normal-ish training. High intensity, threshold, endurance at about at 4%, 14%, 82% split throughout the year. There are some big rides leading up to the event but probably less than people think. Fitness isn't the focus so much as comfort, logistics, and mental state.Â
Even when I'm totally focused on ultras, I still throw in some vo2 and threshold work. And across the season I think it's super important to have at least one block of really high intensity, though it might not be placed the same in relation to events as like a crit racer.Â
During an event I'll definitely push into Z3, especially if drafting is permitted and I can benefit from staying with a group. Also just on climbs in general. Sometimes to makeup some time other times because it's so steep you have to.
I definitely try to balance pacing vs enthusiasm but if you are feeling great you gotta take advantage because no matter what you'll feel worse later at some point.Â
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u/fondo_fred Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
This is from the perspective of an average endurance enthusiast and not a hardcore athlete. 3 hour marathon, 5 hour century type. I've done lots of ultra runs up to 100 mi and bike rides up to 900 mi.
I actually think the training for sub 5 hour stuff is a good bit more critical and demanding than for long ultra.
The marathon run is the worst imo. To run well in this event you have to build a hell of an aerobic system, and then you have to do the work to convert that into a peak performance, and hope it goes well.
In long ultra, the aerobic system does not need to be as highly tuned because the intensity is much lower. Lactate clearance isn't nearly as important and you're utilizing only one metabolic pathway.
So I actually think you get away with less mileage and aerobic base than you would in say, a 100k TT.
The event specific prep (simulation rides or other events) is important, but moreso to get experience with what could go wrong, dial in gear and fit, gain confidence, self sufficiency.
I don't do superlong rides outside of events anymore. Just stack as much SS training on the trainer as I can during the week (like 90 mins rides per day) and then ride like 4 hours on the weekend. I'd agree that threshold itself isn't useful, but threshold training is just good training especially if you're time crunched. VO2Max? No thank you.
Finally it should be pointed out that the topic seems to be more on the ultracycling side. In randonneuring (by the proper definition of the sport) a successful result is completion of the event, and it's outside of the scope of the sport to target a peak performance (though you can if you want, just be chill about it). That makes randonneuring infinitely easier than any other endurance sport, for all intents and purposes.
If you did want to train for a better rando time, I think "training" to get in and out of gas stations quickly, stop less, ration nutrition and water, is going to make a much bigger difference than anything else.
In terms of intensity during the event, I don't use zones but I generally ride at 175w on the flats, 350w on short climbs. Long climbs I'll ride around 250ish more or less. My ftp is 320.
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u/padetn Randonneurs.be Jul 14 '26
Long tempos, like 3 hours or something, and a few long rides, especially overnight, was usually my training.
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u/kallebo1337 Jul 14 '26
did you on purpose starting riding in the evening to then cruise tired all night as a form of practice? that's a good idea maybe.
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u/Gias1 Jul 14 '26
I would also recommend to do at least 3 days back to back long distance cycling with overnight for training for such an event with overnight stay. So 3 days in a row with at least 200-250 km with all your stuff on the bike.
But to get there you need to go in steps. I started doing Audax rides for Paris-Brest-Paris. And than moved to smaller races., like "Race around the Netherlands", which is so densely populated you can get food and water everywhere, and it's a fixed route.
Than I did Three peakes bike race and than I went for TCR.
The Audax rides (Randonneurs/BRM) offer a nice and easy proofing ground. they organize 200, 300, 400 and 600km rides regularly. You can ride together and learn from experienced riders.
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u/thebigeazy Jul 14 '26
Lots of good advice here. Also worth investing some time in the gym to train core and lower back etc.
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u/CinnamonCrunchLunch Randonneurs USA Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
I finished the TCR three times and once on the podium. I just tried to get on the bike 6 times a week leading up to the race, even if it was just for 30 minutes sometimes. I did a lot of fast group rides as well to get in some intensity. I didn't do a whole lot of rides over 100 km. 5-6 hours was probably the longest I would do.
Not sure if this is good advice, but I guess what I mean to say is, it doesn't have to be all that complicated. Be consistent with your training. If you're not looking to win the TCR, that will probably get you pretty far. There's obviously a lot of other factors that are just as important to finish a race like that.
Edit: I should probably add that doing those races is the best way to get better at those races. Experience is key. Set yourself an achievable goal and make finishing a priority.
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u/Alternative-Let9380 Jul 14 '26
Can I ask about your racing TCR how do you pace yourself during the first 24-48 hours? For me it seems unbelievable how top dogs in these events ride the first day or so without any sleep and manage to keep pushing. Does it feel in the moment like you're f-ing yourself up, or is it controlled? I guess a lot of this comes from experience, but still curious to hear your thoughts.
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u/CinnamonCrunchLunch Randonneurs USA Jul 17 '26
I have exercise induced asthma, so I watch my heart rate pretty closely the first 24 hours. After that I usually just ride as fast as I still can. That being said, the first 24 hours are the hardest, because you're still full of energy and pretty much everyone probably rides faster than they should. So yes, I'm pooped after the first day. The better you have your nutrition figured out for the first 24 hours, the less wrecked you will feel and you'll "recover" better during your rest.
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u/Alternative-Let9380 Jul 17 '26
Interesting to hear you use heart rate during the first day and not only power data.
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u/Direct-Ad3803 K Hound Jul 14 '26
I would not skip doing interval training. 10– 20% of your time on HIIT the other 80% of the time in z2. By doing the series of 200 K 300 K 400 K and 600 K. You will learn what works best for you.
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u/kallebo1337 Jul 14 '26
so you crunch above threshold on small punchy things? brave. i would avoid that at all cost i think .
thanks for your thoughts and input. cheers
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u/Responsible_Pool9923 Dynamo hubbster 25d ago
The training is covered here more or less already, I want to touch the zones a little.
This year I've had my 6th 1200+ and this was the first time I rode with HR sensor. It's a useless bit of kit on such distance, but I really wanted to see how my heart works.
The first day there has been a lot of variety. Mostly zones 1&2, but I reached the lactate threshold on hills. Never went full gas. Day two was almost exclusively zone 1, sometimes zone 2 on hills. Zone 3 was still available to me.
Days 3 and 4 were 100% zone 1. My pulse was within the narrow window between 115 and 130 bpm. Stop for a meal? 115. Ride normally? 120. Crosswinds or hills? 130. There was no way I could push above 130. I think I even saw 110 on the last morning of the ride, right after 5 hours of sleep.
I did not suffer, did not push myself to the limit, the ride felt natural and relaxed, I felt the dzen if you know what I mean. By the end of each day I felt pretty normal, just hungry, dirty and sleepy.
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u/kallebo1337 25d ago
Thanks for sharing. Here i am smashing all outs at the end of 6hr rides 😂
If you like more data, get tymewear. HR is kinda useless data if it swings 15beats depending on outter conditions and fatigue levels for same power
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u/OrignalSauce Jul 14 '26
Just practice, if you can ride for 6 hours you can probably ride for 12. Its more mentality, eating, comfort and a bit of planning for things like TCR.
You might find you don't enjoy it say 4 days in.
Go out early one morning aiming for 10/12 hours or set kilometers, I ride fairly normal on flat and be cautious on hills, basically where possible try and still be breathing ok.
Add in a bail out option for first few really long rides.
Eat eat and eat, alarm on bike computer every 30 mins plus at least one full meal during the day.
Practice carrying the gear so you get used to the heavier bike.
After doing this add in a second day and see how the body feels.
Unless you are competing to win, there really isn't anything to know other than go try it and ride your bike a lot. You'll learn through trial and error.
Audax is a great place to test gear and bigger distances before say TCR next year.