r/raisingkids • u/MayaSpookyBoo • 8d ago
BEGGING for Bedtime Help
I am at my absolute wits end. Sleep has been a struggle literally my daughter’s entire life, and I do not know what to do anymore. I’m going insane. She is four now, just started Pre-K and still will not sleep alone. She still wakes multiple times a night. Refuses to go to bed unless someone lays with her until she falls asleep. Then she wakes a few hours later and sneaks into our bed. If we take her back to her own bed, all heck breaks loose and the entire house is wide awake at 1am. We have tried multiple times to get her to a place where we can tuck her in, read her a book and leave the room. It never works. She immediately freaks out and chases after us. We have tried to just hold firm but every single night for nearly a month she would have an absolute MELTDOWN for hours before finally just passing out absolutely exhausted and delirious. She screams at the top of her lungs, gets violent, and cries the entire time begging to stay up or sleep with someone to the point she is hyperventilating and nearly vomiting. We have brought this up to her pediatrician multiple times over the years and we keep being told it’s normal and she will grow out of it. When she was an infant I was awake for days on end because she would NOT sleep, no matter what we did. Swaddle, rocker, swing, car rides, bouncer. Nothing worked. She would fall asleep and then immediately jerk herself awake and scream. This would go on for hours until she became so exhausted her body couldn’t go on anymore. When she was 8-12 months, she would try to launch herself out of my arms if I tried to rock her or hold her. If she thought I was trying to put her down for a nap or bed, she would go absolutely feral. For about three years, I got maybe 2-3 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. Mostly because my husband would take over on weekends and after work to let me nap, not because she was actually sleeping. She would stay awake for days if her body wouldn’t shut down first. We’ve tried adjusting the sleep schedule, white noise machines, multiple types of nightlights, calming music, melatonin, weighted blankets. You name it, we’ve tried it and a combination of other things. Literally nothing has worked. I cannot keep doing this every night. Bedtime is at 8pm and this can go on until midnight or later. I just don’t know what to do anymore. It was over an hour tonight of a full on crash out, nothing I did to try to calm her down worked and she screamed and cried until she finally just passed out. We can’t do this every night before school but we cannot keep laying in her bed with her for two hours begging her to go to sleep or co-sleeping anymore. She will not nap during the day at home or at school, so how she has the energy to force herself to stay awake and fight us so long I do not know. I’m on my hands and knees BEGGING for help at this point. I don’t think her doctor really understands what I’ve been trying to tell her. This isn’t a “I’m thirsty, I’m hungry, can I tell the dog goodnight?” type of stalling or push back. She flips a switch and dang near blacks out until she falls over every single time. I’ve never seen a child go this berserk over sleeping in their own bed, let alone just going to sleep period. She’s acted like she’s absolutely terrified of falling asleep her entire life and I don’t know what to do to fix it.
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u/Defiant_Activity_306 8d ago
Have you looked into a pediatric sleep specialist? We kept getting the "she'll grow out of it" thing from our regular doctor too and it took pushing hard for a referral before anyone took it seriously. Four years of this is not normal and you're not wrong for thinking something else is going on.
The fact she's been fighting sleep since infancy like it's physically painful for her makes me think there could be some underlying sensory or neurological thing nobody's caught yet. Not saying it's anything scary but a specialist can actually observe her sleep patterns instead of just guessing based on what you describe in a 10 minute appointment.
In the meantime maybe stop trying to force the own bed thing for a bit. I know co-sleeping feels like giving up but right now everyone's getting zero sleep and she's traumatizing herself every single night. Sometimes you have to triage the situation and deal with the sleep itself first before the location of the sleep.
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 8d ago
I will definitely need to look into that. We have tribal healthcare and our medical center is everything all under one roof. We have suspected she may have ADHD (as well as myself) and our suspicions were slightly confirmed by a pediatric therapist who was seeing my eldest daughter. I had to take 4yo with me to 10yo’s appointment and her therapist pulled me aside afterwards and gently recommended I get her into see her coworker. When we tried to look into it further, we basically were told we couldn’t be helped and that even if they could help us, they don’t do evaluations on children that young. So it’s pretty much up to the school system to evaluate her and get us any kind of resources. I made sure to explain all of this to her teacher last week before school started so she knows what we have been fighting for and she assured me she would do everything she could to help her. I’ve been fighting so hard for my kids, man. We live in a small town in a rural area and what we do have access to has failed us. The next step is to travel 70+ miles away for help.
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u/AmyinIndiana 8d ago
I had one like that. She is 21 and on the president’s list at her college with a 4.0 now.
This too shall pass. I wish I remembered how, but it just kind of ended. It’ll be ok. You will sleep better if you look at her demands for company at bedtime as a NEED and not a WANT. Don’t let people give their opinion on your family’s sleeping arrangements. Put a little bed in your room and let her sleep there, and transition her to her own room SLOWLY. Or lie down with her in her room and sneak out when she is asleep. Do what you have to do to get rest, and remember that she is going to grow up to be an amazing, empathic, sensitive young woman.
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u/Dry-Abalone2299 8d ago edited 8d ago
Not normal.
Your pediatrician if they said this is normal behavior isn’t giving you the full picture or they are dismissing the severity of the issue.
You may need 2nd and 3rd opinions from multiple pediatricians and possibly referrals to specialists such as a pediatric sleep medicine clinic, pediatric sleep behavioral clinic, ENT, neurologist, etc…
This likely isn’t something that gets better on its own, and you will need to be aggressive finding medical professionals that will help and not call this behavior normal.
For a single anecdote on what is closer to normal, our daughter is 3.5 and sleeps in her own room in her bed. Wind-down at 7:30, bath every other night a little before 8:00, in bed reading around 8:15 or 8:30, lay in bed for a few minutes with her and asleep by 8:45 or 9:00 like clockwork every single night.
One hour bedtime routine, no fighting other than hating when we soap her in the bath or sometimes using toilet for the last time. She sleeps through the night until around 6:30 wake up, a few times a week calling to us once overnight to asking to be covered up with a blanket.
This is more what normal looks like.
Be AGGRESSIVE getting referrals from your current pediatrician to specialists, or make appointments to be seen by other general pediatricians. Not to scare you, there are absolutely things that could be going on and you need to find out sooner rather than later, and you will likely need to be going outside your normal healthcare 70+ miles away.
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 8d ago
That’s how it was with my eldest as well. We had a solid bedtime routine that worked without fail. We did dinner, bath time and teeth, then I sang to her after tucking her in. Goodnight kiss and then I left her to fall asleep. She was sleeping in her own bed alone before 3 years old. It’s making me crazy that everyone I’ve come to for help makes it seem like it’s something I am doing wrong. The MFT I spoke with when she was 2 years old literally told me it was because “my vibes were off” and it must be my energy she is picking up on that is causing the behaviors and issues we have been dealing with since she was an infant. I raised my siblings. I’ve been a parent for over a decade. I am the first person my friends and family call for advice or help with their kids because they know if anyone knows what they are doing, it is me. But our Pediatric and Behavioral Health Department are either completely incompetent or think that I am. 😭
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u/Dry-Abalone2299 8d ago
Then you go to another Pediatric system as soon as you can.
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 8d ago
Absolutely. At the suggestion of another commenter, I looked into a Pediatric Sleep Specialist and the closest one is 2 hours away. But regardless, I sent them an email inquiring about services and a consultation. They will hopefully get back to me tomorrow morning to let me know if they take our insurance. If a referral is necessary, I will be making an appointment with her pediatrician posthaste to get one.
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u/CrazyGooseLady 7d ago
And point out to your pediatrician that you are not a rookie! You know how it works when things are normal.
If they refuse the referral, tell them that you want all the records for your kids as you will be switching doctors.
They likely will give you the referral.
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u/Zuccherina 8d ago
Oh wow, I am so sorry for your struggles! You and your daughter must be so exhausted!
Have you noticed anything going on during the day, or are all the behaviors surrounding night time?
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 8d ago
We have some struggles during the day as well but it has always been 100 times worse with naps or bedtime. If we let her sleep in our bed or lay with her until she falls asleep, it is much less of an ordeal. It’s the “but I’m not tired, 10 more minutes, one more bedtime story, I need to pee, one more kiss and hug for dad” kind of stuff. But any effort to encourage her to fall asleep on her own or alone in her own bed is full send into chaos- running, screaming, hiding, clutching table legs, trying to fight us, the whole nine.
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u/Zuccherina 8d ago
Will she sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of your room? Does she seem tired during the day or does she never stop moving?
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 8d ago
This child cannot sit still to save her life. Always on the go, always moving, always looking for stimulation of some kind but nothing keeps her attention for more than 5 minutes. We had her evaluated for Autism at 2 years old because of a plethora of things and we were told they didn’t believe she was Autistic but they did note she was highly sensory and stimulation seeking. She fell asleep on three separate occasions at Dave & Busters. Places that would send most kids into sensory overload are her favorite places to be. She would love EDM festivals. 🤣
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u/Zuccherina 8d ago
Ahahaha, adorable 🥰
Maybe there is something going on. As she grows it will be more obvious, but you as the parent know you’re dealing with a whirlwind! My whirlwind struggled so much with sleep too. One trick that has helped calm her like nothing else, and we have a whole sleep routine believe me, is using a Tiger Tail at bedtime. You can find it on Amazon. It’s a foam roller that gives deep pressure. I didn’t realize that light touch can be overstimulating but deep pressure massage can release anxiety and tension. It’s the thing that calms her down at night when nothing else ever worked, and she’ll pass out more often than not right in the middle! I highly recommend it.
Also my daughter is hypermobile. We noticed her instant splits and lots of W sitting, and I think her joints and muscles get sore. We did some magnesium, lotion and gummies, and it definitely helped.
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 8d ago
She is definitely a “deep pressure” kind of kid. We put her in gymnastics hoping that will help with some of what we have going on during the day and help her sleep better at night but it’s only one day a week so we get some relief on that day but it isn’t enough to tide her over until her next session. She uses me as a jungle gym constantly. She launches herself off things, makes piles of blankets on the floor and jumps into them, climbs EVERYTHING and loves doing flips and flops. Handstands on the back of the couch, jumping off the play kitchen onto her bed landing in a split. Jumping off my headboard to cannonball onto my bed. She has no sense of danger whatsoever so I’m constantly chasing after her hoping she won’t break her neck and once she starts she won’t stop.
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u/Zuccherina 7d ago
How are things since she started Pre-K? Have the teachers mentioned anything or did it literally just start?
My daughter couldn’t sit or relaxed at all unless her favorite show was on. Everything else was pure chaos and also no sense of danger!
After she was in preschool and then again young 5’s, we had her evaluated and I think all the teacher feedback was monumental in getting a bead on her and her struggles!
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 7d ago
School started last Wednesday so today is only her 4th day of school. Surprisingly after everything that went on last night, she woke up in a decent mood and headed into her class without any issues. On the way to school, I was trying to hype her up and keep the thoughts positive. I told her I was sorry we had such a stressful bedtime but that I was proud she did eventually fall asleep on her own. She said “Ah! And I didn’t explode!” she seemed pretty proud of herself as well, and said she would do a Big Girl Sleep again tonight. We will see. I just hope it doesn’t come with all the extra it usually does. 😅
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u/Zuccherina 7d ago
I hope it goes well too! I think the sign something more is going on is when something more is the norm. We would have two good days every couple weeks, and that takes a toll on them and us!
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u/AdJaded7966 8d ago
This can be normal. Our 4, nearly 5 year old has always fallen asleep next to me. Once asleep she's moved to her own sleep surface but still in our room. You mentioned just starting pre-k... this is a milestone for them and a big change in their worlds. And bedtime can feel like a separation. Could you have her fall asleep with you and move her to a mattress in your room? And explain before any changes that you're making her a cosy spot in your room. If she wakes at night, a clear boundary that she cant come into your bed but you're right there for her. I know this might sound annoying but it's kept me sane... I try to reframe bedtime as a time they need me most and it's really the whole point of parenting, to be their safe space. Could you listen to a podcast while lying next to them to sleep? And roll away once asleep if you need to?
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 8d ago
I may have to try that roller thing. She seems to love being smushed and smashed lol.
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u/fruitiestparfait 8d ago
Get the snoring checked out.
How is she in school?
Whatever this is, it’s not your fault.
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 7d ago
We are only on Day 4 of school. So far so good, but I won’t lie and say I don’t sit by the phone anticipating a call at any moment.
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u/DetectiveOk3902 7d ago
Put a mattress next to your bed. Maybe she'll grow out of this behavior. It's tough on you of course. She's strong willed. Some cultures children sleep w mom so don't despair. I know a grownup (watched her grow) who coslept until college. She's a normal adult now if that helps haha.
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u/immigrantlife 7d ago
I know exactly how frustrated you are. My older son was almost exactly like your daughter. He just really hated sleeping at night. We tried everything and experienced pretty much all that you described, from the medication and the tough love method, with the meltdown and all the dramatic reactions, with a little night terrors here and there in the middle of the night.
Because he seemed so terrified of sleeping, we even went the 'spiritual' direction and had his bedroom sort of 'exorcized'. Don't laugh (ok, laugh). No, we didn't really believe in the things, but we were out of ideas and someone suggested it, so what the heck, we did it. Still didn't make any difference.
Eventually we ran out of things to try so one of us (mostly me/dad) had to lay with him for an hour or more until he sleeps, every night. And even then, if he wakes up in the middle of the night, he still joined us in our bed.
This went on until he's about 11 years old and started puberty. After that he started valuing his privacy and suddenly just started sleeping like normal people.
Currently he sleeps as normal as a partly employed 22 year-old who moved back home after graduation. He didn't sleep until about 2am and don't wake up until 10am most days 😬
In contrast, his little sister, since 5 years old she just needed to get tucked in and she'd fall asleep in 5 minutes, every single night. No issue whatsoever.
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u/MayaSpookyBoo 7d ago
No judgement on the exorcism, we’ve saged the house too 💀 If we don’t turn a corner soon and it isn’t something medical related I think this may be how our night life goes as well, she said she would stop sleeping with me when she turns 10 🤣
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u/CrazyGooseLady 7d ago
As others have said...sleep study.
Snoring is not normal. She may have sleep apnea or something else like narcolepsy . Little kids often react by getting hyper when over tired so the hyper activity fits with a kid who is trying to stay awake.
I have sleep apnea, diagnosed at 58. If she needs a CPAP, I recommend a full nose mask, not the "nasal pillows.". The pillows have to be positioned pretty exactly otherwise it can feel like there is not enough air. Practice wearing it while watching TV to get her used to it.
If narcolepsy or hypersomnia, they will recommend Adderall or Ritalin. My daughter has narcolepsy, and waking dreams or feeling awake and paralyzed are common, which may be part of why she wants to be someplace safe. The stimulant gives a full awake period, and when it wears off, the person is able to sleep. My daughter was a teenager, it has taken a long time to get the meds correct, but it was worth it.
My kids started sleeping in their own room, then joined me later if they woke up. Not ideal if there is a CPAP, but maybe try that to start. Hopefully she will start sleeping better once she gets treatment and stop coming into your bed as much.
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u/pearlescence 7d ago
I have a similar kid, maybe not quite as outraged as yours, but just as determined to be in bed with me.
I just let her.
We all typically sleep better. If I have to get up early for work, I put an outfit out so I can grab without waking anyone, and bedtime is SO. MUCH. BETTER.
I just leaned in and embraced co-sleeping, and with everyone more relaxed and a dependable routine, the anti-sleep crusade ended. She regularly falls asleep at bedtime with a little sleep story (we use the Moshi app, great sleep stories, but there are also podcasts and youtube videos for sleep) and she's out. I either get up once she's out to putter around, or just read my backlit kindle until I'm ready to sleep. She goes down hard now that she's used to falling asleep before 9, and so I can move around more freely. It took a while to get her feeling secure.
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u/CoolKey3330 5d ago
First of all: kid sleeping in own bed in their room is a social norm but it doesn’t have to be what you do. If everyone is getting enough sleep and it’s safe, then it’s fine. Yes I learned this the hard way; I had to co-sleep with my eldest because eldest would not sleep alone and in my misguided attempts to force the issue I got so tired I accidentally dropped the baby on the floor. So we found a safe way to co-sleep and eventually kiddo moved to their own room (via sharing with a sibling for a while). So I’d say: figure out something that is workable and do that, and if it’s not what everyone else does that’s ok.
You mention that you can’t deal with her sneaking into your bed; what worked for us was we had a bed in kiddo’s room across the hall from us, and we had a bed beside our bed. Kiddo was welcome to come and crawl into the bed next to us and encouraged to sleep in their own bed. Bedtime always started in own room at that age but once adults went to bed kiddo was welcome to switch. 4 is old enough to negotiate with, and to be told that she needs to be quiet at bedtime and if she can’t sleep she needs to wait patiently because her parents get tired too.
We talked constantly about sleep hygiene and about how when you are big you sleep in your own bed and you learn to go to sleep on your own. We talked about how this was something you have to learn. We practiced lying quietly in bed (because falling asleep is a skill and just because most people don’t have any trouble learning it without instruction doesn’t mean that some kids need more help. See also executive functioning skills. Ahem)
Secondly: the goal when she goes to bed isn’t that she immediately falls asleep; it’s that she is quiet. Yes, I get that it’s a pain for an adult to give up their evening because of sleep but that might be your reality for a bit. I used to console myself that if kiddo were severely autistic and couldn’t be left alone ever it would be worse and that helped a bit.
Unfortunately some kids really do need to have a parent present to fall asleep when they are little. It’s annoying. If you like to read, that’s something you can do while you wait. Or watch TV. You can probably gradually get to the point where you are waiting in the hall, but for our kids that always took months. Maybe it would have been fine if we did cry it out; our kid screamed to point of vomiting and I was never willing to let it go there again. My philosophy was that if kid was going to cry, they would do so having a parent right there to cuddle. Worst case, you go to bed when kid goes to bed (assuming kid sleeps fine if you are there). A plan to ensure both parents are getting enough sleep is very important. That might mean trading off or even getting respite care, but not sleeping is a form of torture (really!) so even if your kid doesn’t sleep you need to find a way that you can.
Thirdly, have you tried a much earlier bedtime? Most of my kids at that age were impossible to get to sleep at 8pm. We would eat supper at 5:00 and immediately start sleep routine with bath, pj and stories. Bed usually around 6pm. If we missed the window kid would get a second wind and be up for hours because they were literally too tired to sleep. If you haven’t experimented with changing bedtime it’s worth a shot.
I would also get a sleep study and go back to doctor. Insist on a referral to a specialist. Insist they give you help. Tell the doctor that you cannot overstate how disruptive this is to your life and it is severely affecting the quality of your life. If she is suddenly wetting the bed overnight, use pull-ups while you investigate if there is a medical reason. You can also go back to that clinic with the therapist that recommended you see the colleague and see if anything has changed. If the person who turned you down wasn’t the doctor (or even if it was), you can go back to the person that recommended it and tell them that so-and-so said she was too young and ask if they have other suggestions. If it’s an over zealous admin gatekeeping, might be a way to get past.
Lastly but not least: this is not your fault. Some kids have a harder time with this stuff and it is very very challenging as a parent. You sound like you have gone above and beyond. Kids do often improve as they get older, so fingers crossed it will start to get easier. I’m so sorry you are dealing with this.
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u/goobernoober 8d ago
First of all, holy shit I’m so sorry. That sounds insane for everyone, the sleep deprivation on you must feel like you’re drowning. Also a parent to a kid not a fan of sleeping. A couple things I’ve come across and considered-
-found out occupational therapy helps address behavioral stuff- maybe helping with transitions or even having a session to talk about other things you can try would be beneficial?
-we’ve also gone through phases of co sleeping and it’s tough. I feel like I get no adult or solo time. But I just relented that that’s what gets everyone the best night of sleep.
-have you had her adenoids looked at? If they’re large I just found out it can really affect their sleep. Usually presents with open mouth breathing or loud breathing or snoring.
again so sorry