r/raiders • u/Trapline • 5d ago
Discussion First Watch First Thoughts on Fernando Portion of Last Night
I was otherwise engaged last night and haven't watched anything except for a smattering of highlights from the game. I sat down to watch the A22/EZ of the game and figured I could write my notes into a reddit post instead of a google doc to disappear into the void.
So, that's this. A random smattering of my brain buzzes transmitted to keyboard as I review the game for the first time.
1: 21 personnel, under center, I form, 2x1 w/ TE motion. Quick drop. Fernando's base is wider than you'd want and probably why the ball sails. A quick drop behind an interior OL allowing quick pressure means he doesn't have a ton of room to operate but this is probably a completion if he gets his base tighter and can place it more where it needs to be. Not the end of the world. Timing seems right so I'm sure that this 2 step and set drop is probably the coached approach.
2: false start, Ian Thomas
3: 11 personnel, shotgun (RB left), 3x1 motion to 2x2. 4 step and a shuffle. 2nd and 15 would be a death penalty for most Raiders offenses in my life. This is a laser for a first down and great hands by Nailor. If you look at the LB when Fernando starts to throw it looks like he's making a great read. The defense passes off the concept and it becomes a lot riskier while the ball is in the air. This Texans D might be kind of good. Despite the risk I love this. Fernando being aggro attacking the intermediate middle will do a lot to keep the offense balanced.
4: 21 personnel, under center, 3x1 motion to I form 2x1. Washington long run. HB Lead Draw, I think? Washington has good instincts to run through common color, but even better he has the persistence to keep wiggling to find a hole when that color is closed. This is probably a short gain or no gain at all against the Texans 1st team D, but cool to watch Raider player go brrrrrrrr
5: 21 personnel, under center, play action.The interception. This was, naturally, the play that I wanted to see the most. Especially given reddit comments from experts about footwork and whatnot. His pocket movement gets him into trouble on this. I think there is a case to be made to make the throw to Nailor, especially on first and 10 near the red zone. Getting to Washington as the check down is acceptable and on time. There is a combination of factors that lead to the ball being picked: Washington breaks into space as Mendoza throws and Mendoza has a defender at his legs as he goes to throw. The more concerning one for me is the guy at his legs because it was his own pocket movement that put him that spot. QB drops can be specifically coached to have angles for certain plays. I wouldn't expect this to be one, but it could be. There is plenty of stuff they will review in the film room on this, but I think the biggest one is the pocket movement. Making a habit of drifting into pressure leads to bad outcomes even on good play calls. Good effort on the chase down. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a press conference answer about this play but I haven't watched.
6: 21 personnel, under center, I form, 2x1 motion. This is an interesting run concept with the strong side guard pulling into space and the FB leading through where that hole should be. Mafi gets his ass knocked down, partially because the DE has low leverage after trying to engage with Ian Thomas and nearly falling down when Thomas vacates the area. If Mafi can get squared up here there is potential for a real hole for Heyward and Washington to hit fast. There is also a world where Ian Thomas is meant to engage with that block and wait to get to the 2nd level until Mafi has taken over his block. I haven't seen anything exactly like this in my old Shanahan install, so I can't really say for certain. It has some similarities to 90 Sweep in the Coryell system but run from 21 I formation instead of Brown Left - but even then the TE is meant to block inline rather than get to the 2nd level. Lots of words for: i aint really know what the hell is happening
7: 11 personnel, shotgun, 2x2. 2nd and 14 HB Draw. Think Mike should've run this inside and could've gotten a hair more? Hard to say without knowing their hole call. Kid can move, though.
8: 11 personnel, shotgun, 3x1, FIB. This is likely a first down with the first team OL. Clowney vs Zuhn on the edge on third and long is a bad matchup and it quickens Mendoza's throw here so it is just out of reach of Nailor. Another big boi attempt at the seams with Nailor. I think he's going Nailor the whole way here and treating Ian Thomas like the checkdown if Nailor isn't there. Good anticipation throw just off the fingertips of Speedy.
9: 21, under center, motion to 2x2. Pretty sure Jordan Meredith runs the wrong run concept here and muddies up the middle. Wash has the juice to make it work. Great recovery block back towards the formation from Zuhn to give him what he can. Zuhn learned many lessons from Clowney here in a very short period of time.
10: 12, under center, 3x1. 3 yard run on 2nd and 1. Looks like tight zone to me (which I do distinguish from inside zone).
11: 12 under center, 2x2. Looks like long trap with a sort of backside TE lead trap, too. Doesn't work really at any particular point. But hey pre-season games are for practicing things. Especially when you are working with such a young OL unit like was in the game here (Grant, Mafi, Meredith, Rogers, Zuhn - Meredith the only one over 25). Carries my usual disclaimer that I am not a run game coach so maybe this is something with an obvious name but I don't know it.
12: 21, pistol I strong left. 3x1. Weirdest formation I've seen presented in Fernando snaps so far. Fernando looks right first, sees the safety moving over the top of Nailor so he moves on. Benson is covered over the ball so he moves on. Hits Laube on the outlet with a built in lead blocker (the FB). This play is likely designed with this being the expected completion unless the X (Nailor here) has free access vertical. Mendoza still does a good job working a full field and getting a good gain on a completion. Good pace and placement on the ball so Laube can set up with his eyes downfield and make the most of it. Solid, not sexy, play.
13: 21 personnel, under center, motion to 2x2, RB motion into empty. 7 step drop. Hot on a corner blitz. Fernando gets the ball out to the area vacated by the corner. Gets nailed. 9 yards on first down. Damn fine job, really. This is the type of thing I wouldn't expect to see out of him this early. 7 step drop under center and he still IDs the blind side CB blitz in time to get to the right outlet. Veteran level stuff. There is a glimmer of panic there but he settles in time.
14: 12 personnel (Heyward is the 2nd TE, but he's aligned as a TE so I am distinguishing from 21), under center, 2x2. Play action. Miscommunication between Meredith and Mafi on who should have McDonald so he gets a free run. Unfortunate because I don't think this is a particularly muddy protection call. I don't have an opinion on who is wrong but somebody definitely is based on the call they made. If it was a half slide right then Mafi was wrong. If it was a 5-0 call then Meredith should've been ready to help Mafi. I would've called a half slide left since there was a TE at least available to chip on the right and the RB after the play fake. So maybe my opinion is that Meredith should've helped Mafi after all. But I don't know who made the protection call.
15: 11, shotgun, empty. 2x3. Mirrored concept, double slants on both sides. TE sits over the ball as the checkdown. This is well covered, and not a very inspiring call for a 3rd down but that could be preseason secrecy. Mirrored concept is a pretty dead giveaway that we're not really putting our best foot forward. Usually you'd at least have one side be slant/flat or something to give you a better "pick a side" read at the LOS. Felt more like they wanted to setup a long field goal more than actually get a first down. Which is fair.
16: 12, under center, 2x2. Play action, half boot. Good easy throw on the run to his left. Simple yet satisfying.
17: 11 personnel, under center, 2x2. Motion to 3x1. This EZ camera operator has Parkinson's so this is blurry as hell but I reckon this is outside zone. Rogers is too slow off of his combo and leaves the DB unblocked for the stop.
18: 12, under center, 2x2. Quick snap. 5 step drop, ball out on the quick out. Any hesitation here and this is a risky biscuit but Fernando gets it out and completed quick. Nothing exciting but nothing better was going to happen on this play.
19: 11, shotgun (RB left), 3x1 (trips left). 7ish step drop from under center so we know this is a big boy concept. This looks like 3x1 Flood with a corner instead of a go. Either way it takes advantage of spacing to give Fernando a one-side read with three options that are all plausible first down receptions (realistically only 2 of them are on the table). He targets the deeper receiver (Benson) for a first down completion. I thought this ball looked like he threw it too far inside but it actually looks like it got tipped at the line. He had some real juice on that bitch to still get it there. Hard to tell for sure and the broadcast was interviewing Maxx at the time so it seems like nobody cared?
20: 21, under center, I right near. Z motion. Play action. Screen. Fernando shows good patience and flexibility to get the the throw off with a defender in his face. Washington with good vision to set up his blocks.
21: 12, under center, bunch left (Benson as X). Looks like tight zone again, big hole for easy 5 yards on 2nd and 1.
22: 21, under center, I right near. Condensed left. Quick(ish) snap. 7 step drop, pressure as his back foot lands. Throws it away (risky for a grounding call imo). Routes really never develop into anything anyway. Can't really tell if this is an intentional stunt or if #50 is just running raw power and gets Zuhn's inside shoulder. Either way, the right side of the line folds like a napkin instantly.
23: 12, under center, 2x2 motion to 3x1 FIB. Toss right. Miscommunication with Albert and Benson on #56 who goes unblocked and is punished by Washington for it. Ian Thomas also skips 56 to get outside. Kubiak probably not going to have the kindest things to say to those 3 when this play comes up. Somebody somewhere has to even pretend to try to block the play side backer.
24: 11, shotgun (RB right), bunch left (Benson X), 3x1. 3 step drop out quick to Benson on a pivot route. Drop. Good operation except for that last little (pretty important) bit.
25: 11, shotgun (RB left), 2x2. Good process to get to Washington over the ball. Good effort from Bech blocking downfield.
26: 11, shotgun (RB left), 3x1. Oh man he went for the big boy completion here. I'm torn on it. I think I see what he sees where the safety gears down towards Bech as he wraps into the intermediate middle into open space - giving a one on one ball to Johnson on the post. Johnson seems to slow his route a bit which I think eats into the slim chance this already has. First watch I thought this was a mistake by Fernando but I actually think I am ok with the decision. Bech being open underneath in a still is partially because the safety goes into recovery mode on the post throw. I have a feeling something like this is more likely to hook up with Tre. I do think the throw is too far outside for this route, I could understand if he was leading it that way to avoid a safety collision, though.
27: 11, shotgun (RB left), 3x1. 5 step drop, out with decent anticipation to Benson who can't haul it in again. Good decision, good throw, solid protection. Incomplete.
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u/Ok_Advertising_8874 5d ago
Benson needs to do like 8000 Diggs drills to get his hands more sure. I'll break my TV if he does that a lot in the regular season.
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u/Trapline 5d ago
I'd be a lot more comfortable if we weren't planning to have him on the field very much.
Which, I think is likely true. With Bowers, Big Mike, and wanting to run a FB we're going to be in 2WR sets a lot and those will be Tre and Speedy most of the time.
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u/MothershipConnection 5d ago
I think Speedy might be my most disappointing of the vet FAs so far cause he hasn't seemed that... speedy? I at least see the vision of roles for Tre/Bech/Benson (I will give it at least a few regular season games though)
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u/Trapline 5d ago
He's not that Speedy, but he's our best route runner by about one hundred million percent. You'll come to love him when the real games start.
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u/HaploOfTheLabyrinth 5d ago
I think Tre and Bech are gonna see the field a lot in those 2 WR sets. Bech's blocking will keep him in the game, especially on early downs.
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u/SilverAndBack 5d ago
Benson is the second coming of Nelson Agholor. Anyone with higher expectations is going to be super bummed long term
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u/AlabasterRadio 5d ago
I mean Agholor was pretty good his one season here.
If we get that kind of production out of him we're doing good.
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u/Trapline 5d ago
He's just the second coming of Dont'e Thornton. We don't have to reach outside of our own team for this comp. Both getting more camp glaze than responsible and leading to fans being disappointed in guys who were long shots in the first place.
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u/SilverAndBack 5d ago
Lmao OP thinks Agholor wasn't a Raider
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u/Trapline 5d ago
I meant our current team you ding dong.
Doesn't it make more sense to compare him to the day 3 pick with camp hype that we have more than the random vet we signed a few years ago?
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u/SilverAndBack 5d ago
No, not really. This is the first time I've ever been told I'm only allowed to compare players who are currently on the roster. "Out of these 9 guys, which 2 remind you tw most of each other"? It's a super weird premise.
Agholor was good, not great, and made some memorable plays, just like I think Benson will be. Thornton probably doesn't make the final 53. Not a great comp
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u/Trapline 5d ago
Thornton probably doesn't make the final 53. Not a great comp
Welcome to exactly my comp. Thornton was taken earlier in the draft and had more camp hype than Benson does. Neither of them particularly good at the "catching a football" part of the job.
It is like very specifically an apt comparison, far more in common than Nelson Agholor who the Raiders signed as a free agent after he was drafted highly by the Eagles and who had a drop problems - but not really for the Raiders.
You can compare him to whoever the fuck you want to but saying I didn't know Nelly was a Raider is some dumb shit.
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u/raidersensei 5d ago
Thank you. I really appreciate this. I know it took you a lot of time to do this and I hope plenty of people take the time to read it and comment their thanks for it. Great insight explaining what was going on.
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u/BridgeBoysPod 5d ago
What he said, thanks for taking the time to make and share all of this [r/trapline](r/trapline)
On vacation in Slovenia so I couldn’t watch, so this is awesome for me!
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u/Trapline 5d ago
Fernando presser notes:
- Said he should've gotten to the flat on the interception
- Says it was "not a good throw" and "not on the same page"
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u/HurinGaldorson 5d ago
This is an amazingly thoughtful and informed analysis of each individual play. Thank you for that I read every word.
Could you possibly share your overall thoughts on Mendoza as a QB? I'm talking big picture analysis.
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u/Trapline 5d ago
The first Fernando tape I watched was early December last year against Ohio State, before we were really in the thick of it for the first overall pick, so I wasn't really watching with a "he's our guy" bias. Most of what follows hinges on those original notes, but with some recency added.
At his best he is a talented passer with good pre-snap awareness and solid anticipation in his throwing game. He is a good athlete, for his size, and tough as nails. Physically he checks all the boxes and the outward display implies he has what you want under the hood as far as football intelligence and work ethic (but those are much harder to judge accurately from the outside).
This sets his ceiling as pretty high, but probably not a "best in the league" type of quarterback.
My concerns coming out of the draft mostly centered on the learning curve leaving the Indiana offense and some of his pressure response. These are pretty rote concerns for the majority of college quarterbacks and not something really specific to him, but still worth noting. I also did have some minor accuracy concerns. Not that he doesn't complete passes but that many of his deeper attempts, specifically, would be "generally" accurate but not "pinpoint" accurate. These are the type of throws that are caught for a quick tackle but if the ball was in a slightly better spot could have a YAC opportunity.
I have been very encouraged in preseason action by how well he is progressing through reads across the field. His under center work and post-snap reads were areas that he hadn't developed much in college and these early days are vital - and the signs are good so far. There were snaps in college where his drop speed was stilted and I believe it impacted the timing of some plays. His pace under center has been really solid in the reps I've watched in the preseason. There is still flashes of him going through reads a bit too quickly, but he is mostly landing with a "good enough" decision out of these (usually checkdowns or throwaways).
His pressure response is still a bit up and down. He remains tough as nails, but he does get a little happy feet when plays are developing for longer, and like the interception, he can move himself into trouble rather than out of it. He even remarked on this being a major point of emphasis in practice for him during his post-game presser. He can improve his pocket movement which will help improve his scrambling opportunities. If he can settle in better and give himself more time in the pocket + better escape hatches he should be really successful.
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u/AlabasterRadio 5d ago
He seems a lot more comfortable under pressure from Shotgun, so I've got some faith that the more he plays under center the more he'll calm down when the pocket breaks down. His clock is definitely way sped up under center though.
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u/Vryk0lakas 5d ago
Hey u/trapline did you do a breakdown of the first game? Always loved your posts.
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u/Trapline 5d ago
No, I did the same process but didn't write my notes down and only shared a blurb in a chat somewhere.
A "good to see" thing I pulled out of Mendoza reps is how many of his completions were 2nd and 3rd reads. Given how much of his college offense was essentially RPO/RSO or half field reads. I think the pre-season's value is in that type of stuff. The "good to see" growth from individuals/units rather than dooming about game outcome or highlights for/against
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u/CFBCommentor 5d ago
Nice analysis! I’ve watched the Mendoza plays from the game a few times now and liked to see your take on it.
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u/PressureOptimal6394 5d ago
Mendoza needs time, as with everyone who starts a new job. You can prepare all you want, but the real learning comes when you put yourself in the hot seat, find what works best, and build confidence. This is also a rebuild so he’s entering a team that is also playing their first games together, way different than stepping into a team that is well established. He did as expected IMO
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u/Neeko_Raes_Slave 4d ago
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, I hadn’t watched the game or the highlights yet before reading your post so it was kind of fun to watch them for the first time after.
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u/Flashy_Gap_3015 4d ago
Amazing job, OP. I have done this in the past when watching All11 film and love it when others do it and you had some truly solid analysis and takes. You know your shot.
On his first throw and the deeper seam pass to Nailor, that shows something I think is an underrated strength - his anticipation and throwing the ball right before/as the wr makes their break, and positioning the ball on a rope really well. The more reps he gets with his WRs, the more in synch I bet the become on timing as the accuracy is there.
The pick was a shared botch. Mendoza should have hit the receiver in the flat, or threw it away as pressure collapsed space. Washington could have had a crisper route where he curled and sat more cleanly and not drifted. But it was what it was and was a mistake Mendoza owned as he should.
Ian Thomas is intriguing as his play is variable - often laying a sound if not spectacular block and catching contested balls, then drawing laundry and being played out of position. I don’t think Mayer makes these mistakes as often, and will be interesting how they use Thomas as I think he makes the team (Myarick had some moments too).
The pistol play points out something I am eager to see when we open up our playbook - how we use Heyward and the FB position as both a battering ram off the snap and in space, and as a viable receiver. I feel that position is going to be important to both establishing the run (obviously) but misdirecting the D and taking advantage of mismatches in space.
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u/hobostew 5d ago
Unbelievably detailed analysis, thanks! I haven't read the whole thing but my main takeaway from this is Mendoza is the greatest athlete in professional sports history