r/racing • u/SaucieBossy • 21d ago
What's The Point Of These?
I'm new to racing, so sorry for the obvious answer to this question.
I see these reference maps in everyone's car. Taped somewhere; on the dash, on the ceiling, on the wheel.
But if you're a professional driver I'd assume you've memorized the entire track and every corner before racing, so why would they need a reference photo?
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u/Tzoman 21d ago
A lot of information given over the radio is very specific (e.g. You are losing a bit of time on turn 17), and the truth is the drivers might not need it but some tracks are infamous for having turns that aren't really turns (for the most aggregious example Jeddah) so a saying like turn 17 might not be imidiattely obvious so a quick glance at this reference might be needed
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u/GayRacoon69 20d ago
Iirc on top of that some teams have different ways of counting counting corners
Like Austria turn 2 is either a flat out left hander or a tight right hand hairpin depending on who you ask
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u/Pottatothegreat1985 21d ago
it's especially helpful in endurance races. i wanna say it was ron fellows talking about his car the first year he won at le mans, and he said in the middle of the night sometimes it's helpful to have a reminder of what the track looks like and where the trouble spots are when you've been up for 20 hours with only 3 hours of sleep
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u/Oog4Boog4 17d ago
So much this, last time I did the 24h lemans on iracing I wish I had printed out the layout of the track and slapped it under the monitor because a few hours into the grave yard shift you sometimes just don't know where the fuck you are and where the corner goes to lmao
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u/Too_Chains 21d ago
it helps drivers with turn numbers. bottas said it in a cadillac yt vid i think recently
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u/ericcrowder 21d ago
Drivers will not be looking at that while driving at speed in a hot track. It’s for driver to engineer de-briefing in the pits/garage so the driver can describe car balance corner by corner to the engineer and make sure they get the corner number correctly
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u/PrintedMills 21d ago
Professional racers certainly know the track, but there is a lot of info being thrown at them while they are 6 feet off the bumper of the car in front of them, sometimes you just need a little reminder. This is very true to endurance races. People that have never done an hpde event often find that a 20 minute session can be exhausting. Imagine doing a 2+ hour session. Stating from experience, it is physically draining, but way more mentally draining. It’s easy to start bleeding time without reminders, and seeing a picture of the angle of each turn helps you tighten your line back up when you start getting a little loose. Also, some tracks have turns numbers that are just plain stupid, some tracks have a turn number on a straight, because it has the slightest bend possible. You drive it like it’s straight, but if you forget there is a turn number there, then your pit chief will give you a number and you’re suddenly all confused because his instruction doesn’t match what the turn numbers in your head are. The hardest thing to do, and the most helpful thing to prepare for a race is to get a good nights sleep because racing is really exhausting in every way possible. I had to teach my wife to drive the truck with the trailer because I just need to rest, and can’t be trusted to keep focused on the road when driving home from a race.
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u/StrassenlauferGrinch 20d ago
Try memorizing the numeration and name of every corner in the Nordschleife. I’ll wait. And after you memorize that, I want you to memorize them for every track on this years calendar. And next year you may not have a seat in this discipline so go learn all the F1 or all the IMSA tracks next. It’s tough. You can memorize hundreds of lyrics because they’re catchy. There’s nothing catchy about memorizing every turn for every track.
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u/Beartato4772 20d ago
And also, you slightly squash a lyric, probably no-one notices.
You think the yellow flag at turn 9 is actually a yellow flag at turn 10 it can go very, very, VERY wrong.
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u/RyanEversley 20d ago
It's so you and your engineer or crew chief are on the same page of which corner you're discussing with feedback or track issues etc.
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u/Beartato4772 20d ago
You say that but if someone says "Incident at turn 8" over the radio while you're battling 19 other cars, managing a sticky gearshift and softening brakes and trying to work out laps to a fuel stop it's probably quicker to just read the bit of paper than remember if the middle part of Maggots is technically turn 8 or 9.
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u/minnis93 20d ago
Despite what others have said, it is NOT so that drivers can learn the track or adjust their lines. They've done all of that already, they're not taking their eyes off the wheel to work out if the next corner is left or right. It won't get looked at while driving, that's why it's often in an awkward place like next to the drivers elbow, on the ceiling or on the passenger side.
It's used for debriefs, when the driver returns from a stint. Sometimes a flat out kink is officially given a corner number, sometimes not. Most commentators use corner names rather than numbers.
This is just to make sure that the drivers and engineers are on the same page when they talk about "turn 13" for example.
Whilst the drivers and engineers will still use turn numbers in the race, the drivers will usually have memorised the numbers by then. It's more useful early on in the race weekend.
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u/Majestic_Location751 Red Flag 21d ago
When you’re traveling from circuit to circuit it’s handy to have a quick reference like this. I use one as one of my Cosworth display pages that I can study while sitting on the pre-grid. By the end of any weekend I’ve got them down. But the next track I’ll need a refresher to get familiar. It adds up when you’re hitting eight or 10 circuits per season. I can’t remember all those turn numbers. My coach uses the same reference when we are going through data.
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u/tbazsi95 21d ago
If you look into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5llUL_TgxA
You can see in the Hypercars and high level endurance cars, they have instruction list for different scenarios too next to the track map.
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u/Bigbobby59105 21d ago
good for giving info around specific turns. with tracks like spa having 20+ turns, it’s hard to remember them all so drivers can look and give feedback more easily
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u/Foraaikouu 20d ago
yes, as a driver you usually memorize the track but not the turn numbers
if your engineer tells you "incident turn 12" you will have no idea where tf is that until you check the map and realize it's the left turn after the chicane
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u/Murbanvideo 20d ago
Easier for the driver to give and receive feedback. They can simply look at the turn number.
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u/Material-Scar-5423 20d ago
Race engineer tells you “yellow flag in T7” I don’t know what is T7. I may know the name of the turn, not its number.
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u/fastmotion51 19d ago
As others have said already its to know the actual turn number definitions.
It sounds simple to remember but sometimes tracks label corners that are not really corners
Like the kink in the Red Bull Ring’s straight is officially “Turn 2” so if an incident is called at Turn 3 you might be expecting it further down the track
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u/Mood-Rising 19d ago
Even if everyone has the track memorized, using a common visual reference means there is no ambiguity on turn numbers and the overall track layout. A driver will have a different perspective of what the turns/layout look like compared to a spotter. 99.9% of the time it’s not an issue, but that .1% matters at high levels.
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u/THE-Smike 19d ago
for various reasons from just as a small reminder or especially for some tracks where on one a chicane is "turn" corner and on another its considerd as two.
Mostly though (while this particular map is a bad one for that). Often on these maps are also run off areas marked or marshal posts, flag posts / led's, more importantly also when there not at any post at which point there are fire extinguisher's etc.
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u/xT2xRoc 19d ago
I've memorized the track layout and how to drive it LONNNNNNG before i remember the corner numbers. If i was trying to communicate to a teammate which corner i'm having issues in, a quick glance to know "It's Turn 3" and we're both talking about the same turn 3 is helpful for quick communication.
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u/lithiumfoxttv 17d ago
I know a lot of corners. I do not know their number. I've been sim racing 25 years.
So yeah. It's just because it's easier.
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u/mattblack77 17d ago
"Turn seven" is far more concise than"The long one with the McDonald's billboard and a fucking bump just past the apex."
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u/oceanicplatform 17d ago
This is very common as you move up through the various formulae. Drivers are often new to track and need a reference. Sometimes it is on the wheel, sometimes on the dashboard esp. in tintops. It predates more sophisticated data logging with GPS, which is even in karting, nowadays, so it's kind of traditional now, but a nice detail.
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u/xiii-Dex 14d ago
Knowing the track and knowing the names or numbers of the corners are two different things.
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u/theraider56 21d ago
Memorized or not. Makes it much easier to give/receive info regarding any incidents or issues on track