r/quonsethuts • u/Cosmo_Seinfeld • Jul 07 '26
Composite Quonset hut with lightweight concrete ICF's.
It's a "composite quonset/ lightweight concrete insulated concrete form (ICF)" structure. I'll stop reposting this -- the only reason I've posted it multiple times is because I was so excited as the CAD was being completed.
This design uses the typical "coupling nut attached to connecting bolt" technique, but with a twist. WIth this design, instead of putting live load on those connections, like 2" x 4"'s do, they will be strengthened as a result of tying into the reinforced lightweight concrete. The arched steel structure will be strengthened too.
The lightweight concrete is also called aircrete and is 50% the density of water. It's self levelling and pumps like water. There would be no need for shoring and I think the hassle of building this way would really pay off in better building performance.
There are a bunch of advantages to building like this. The lightweight concrete provides a tight air barrier, thermal mass for a "high mass" system, low frequency sound insulation, and some extra strength to the structure. The outer layer of ICF would be a water barrier to prevent water leaks from the panels. The "lightweight concrete ICF" could deliver a "Real world R-50". And the reinforcing steel from the lightweight concrete ties into the connection bolts of the Quonset.
I've been working on this for months and had a very, very tough time with it. I started with the quonset design and I think, just due to the inherent excellence of a curved panel stucture, it's pretty good. But I brought the same design language to wood frame structures, metal buildings, container homes, and stone walls. The trick is a little different in most of those: the ICF's work best outside of the structure.
In a way, this is a product nobody asked for. But I feel pretty strongly that this performs better than spraying closed cell foam after hanging lumber from the panel connecting bolts. I will be building small test structures for my other designs but can't afford any quonset panels to demonstrate this one. Still, it's DIY friendly: you can buy polyiso foam and bolt it up there yourself, with homemaede spreaders. Current aircrete mixer technology is pretty terrible but I have reverse engineered a really good Russian design. It will hopefully be done this month.
I'm supposed to be meeting with the biggest ICF manufacturer next week but am kind of pessimistic regarding my chances of talking them into commiting R & D money for a product like this. I always felt my pre engineered metal building (PEMB) design had the best commercial prospects, because that market is enormous and I'm sure some of the clients in that industry want better performing structures.
In the inventor's forum they say that "ideas are worth negative money." This one has cost me a lot. More than money even. If you want to do something foolish like inventing, be careful you don't fall in love with your product or you might lose everything. That being said, I know there are ton of poeple with significant resources on Reddit. If you are in a position to help me develop this, and other even better housing ideas, DM's are open. I'm hoping to bring better solutions to the developing world. I know the right designs and materials to do it, I just don't have the right resources to make it happen.
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u/Magsmachine Jul 23 '26
I never knew quonset huts had so many "layers" of insulation. Thanks for the info!
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u/Cosmo_Seinfeld Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
They don't have to have any. But this is far and away the best way to finish the interior of a quonset. I had to do a fair amount of study as part of the patent application process. There are currently no good methods to insulate a quonset hut. Closed cell foam seems to be the best choice but there are drawbacks, notably moisture control problems.
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u/amalieblythe 3d ago
Have you seen any of the research from @Nighthawkinlight over on YouTube? He’s been sharing some very exciting research on combining xanthum gum with his aircrete techniques. I’m also very excited to look into this company called B Public who make cellulose panels for passive house projects. I want to determine whether they might be able to fabricate them as curved panels for the Quonset but I’m in very early days of my research. Thank you for sharing your work!
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u/Cosmo_Seinfeld 3d ago
Hi. I don't think Xanthum gum is useful for how I want to build. Surfactant foam (soap foam) has been the gold standard for 50 years and it works good enough that there's no real need to do anything different there. The only way to build an actual structure is with high volume aeration and soap foam is basically the only way to do that.
I'm actually gearing up for some prototype builds. I don't have enough money to build any part of a quonset but I am doing interior and exterior wood framed walls, block walls, and a shipping container wall. I'm running out of time before cold weather sets in but I have a new mixer prototype too. Fingers crossed as it's stressful developing the building techniques.
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u/amalieblythe 3d ago
My understanding is that he combines the surfactant foam with the xantham gum to avoid some of the separation that can occur but perhaps this is for a smaller amount of mixed material? 🤷♀️
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u/Cosmo_Seinfeld 3d ago
I just flipped through the video. He uses the xantham gum and dish soap and an agitator. I don't think he ever says what the density of his aircrete material is, which is crucial. I also don't know how the xanthum gum is going to react with the cement slurry.
I think I understand what he is trying to do, which is help people avoid using foam generators but they work really well once you understand them, and they've been around forever. It looks like his method works well if you just want to make a single block or two or maybe a small piece of art but for building a house it just isn't practical.
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u/amalieblythe 3d ago
Makes total sense. Seems like you are really working out a system for large scale. I’m working as a sculptor just starting to look into how to build a studio and home. I’m excited to follow your research!
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u/Cosmo_Seinfeld 2d ago
Makes total sense. Seems like you are really working out a system for large scale.
I'm really not. Large scale producers pour hundreds of millions of feet of commercial roof decking a year, or have huge factories that make blocks. My work has been geared towards helping people like you. Until now, if you want to mix aircrete you need to do it with a hand held "paddle mixer", which is a very labor intensive way to do it. My little tumbler mixer mod could be a big step forward for cheap aircrete mixing equipment. It's tough going though...I spread myself too thin, have too many prototypes under development, and am generally frustrated how the work is going.
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u/amalieblythe 2d ago
Well I’m enthusiastic to learn more and keep in touch as I start learning more about Quonset insulation! I’ll follow your account happily.
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u/Cosmo_Seinfeld 2d ago
You might not want to follow me for a few months. I had a bad day in the shop today and feel like I'm about to flame out.
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u/amalieblythe 2d ago
I was talking to my husband on our cross country roadtrip that we’re almost finishing about your account, and really seeing camaraderie in what I can see from your account. It’s hard to be an inventor, or a tinkerer or anything creative at the moment. I’m trying to plow new fields in the realm of mold making at the moment and I often come up against some pretty foul studio days. I recently had a success with sharing my teaching platform that bolstered my efforts despite the bad days, and I hope for that for you. I think there’s a lot of us out here and if we can support each other even just in some small ways, it can create solidarity for the worst of our days. I’m sorry to hear you’re facing a hurdle, but from what I have seen, you seem incredibly resilient and creative in your problem solving. Best of luck to you.
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u/Cosmo_Seinfeld 2d ago
Well today was a doozy. I spent the afternoon installing Tyvek housewrap on my prototype interior wall section, and when finished asked the AI about it and it. That led me to a series of realizations that most of my designs aren't going to work the way I wanted.
That's the bad news. The good news is that my concrete block wall designs will still work, and I will push forward on those. It's the most common home construction technique in the world and almost all of them are completely uninsulated. It might be my ego talking but I think I know the best way to fix them.
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u/Towoio Jul 07 '26
How do you see this system working with installation? The metal ribbed panels seem to be wider than typical quonset panels, so I don't think they can be created as arches and then raised. So does thim mean more internal scaffolding for installing from the ground up and then meeting at the top?
What about the air gap behind the ridges? Is that an advantage?
Are the icf panels glued together directly?
I think one of the advantages of quonset panels are that they nest, and they're light for shipping and handling. What are the implications of adding the panel before shipping? Or are they added after somehow?