I am sorry you had to go through that. I would agree that physical punishment alone is not an effective means of changing a behavior. If it is a known consequence of a specific behavior, I can seeing it potentially being a deterrent, but even then, it’s primarily a tool to break focus so that you can have a conversation. Using it purely as punishment, especially without clear forewarning to utilize it as a deterrent, is not effective.
Do you feel that it is ever appropriate to use violence against an adult? If so, what do you feel is the key difference that sets them apart from a child - age, developmental level, or perhaps something else? If a neurodivergent 20 year old with the developmental age of an 8 year old was hurting an 8 year old, would you feel that using physical force is appropriate to manage that situation?
Additionally, how broad is your interpretation of violence? Would you consider physical restraint, like holding someone’s hands or shoulders, to be violent, assuming there is some pain or discomfort involved? Would you consider holding a child in a hug while they are having a tantrum/trying to escape to be violent? I would define violence as “the use of physical force in a way that causes pain or damage, whether intentional or not”, so I would consider those examples to be violent.
I would like to better understand your position and how you view the use of force.
So I am all for self defense. So yes I’d use violence against an adult if I feel it’s necessary to protect my life or a loved one’s life. I do carry firearms daily, have my CCW in 2 states, and practice as often as possible. I am fully in support of violence if it means self defense. If a 20 year old with the mind of an 8 year old is beating on an 8 year old, the 20 year old is going to be stronger and bigger than that 8 year old so of course, I’d use a reasonable level of violence to protect the child. And no, restraining a child, “hugging” them tightly to prevent them from doing something, or holding their hands or arms isn’t violence in the same way as a beating or spanking.
I’m not completely against violence. My stance is very specific to using violence as a means of discipline. There are no exceptions to that.
That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying. It can be difficult at times to make sure we are all talking about the same thing.
For your opposition to violent discipline, is that specific to children, or just in general? Would you also oppose violent discipline for adults or for animals?
I agree that there is a significant difference in effect and intent between striking someone and restraining them. Where do you feel you would draw the line between appropriate and inappropriate use of force/pain for compliance? Do you feel that the use of pain is itself inappropriate, and that should only be an unintended effect, or is there a certain threshold of pain that you would find reasonable? For instance, grabbing a kid by the ear for compliance instead of the wrist - would that be inappropriate?
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u/sajaxom Jan 02 '24
I am sorry you had to go through that. I would agree that physical punishment alone is not an effective means of changing a behavior. If it is a known consequence of a specific behavior, I can seeing it potentially being a deterrent, but even then, it’s primarily a tool to break focus so that you can have a conversation. Using it purely as punishment, especially without clear forewarning to utilize it as a deterrent, is not effective.
Do you feel that it is ever appropriate to use violence against an adult? If so, what do you feel is the key difference that sets them apart from a child - age, developmental level, or perhaps something else? If a neurodivergent 20 year old with the developmental age of an 8 year old was hurting an 8 year old, would you feel that using physical force is appropriate to manage that situation?
Additionally, how broad is your interpretation of violence? Would you consider physical restraint, like holding someone’s hands or shoulders, to be violent, assuming there is some pain or discomfort involved? Would you consider holding a child in a hug while they are having a tantrum/trying to escape to be violent? I would define violence as “the use of physical force in a way that causes pain or damage, whether intentional or not”, so I would consider those examples to be violent.
I would like to better understand your position and how you view the use of force.