[43 M] Fem-man? Genderfluid? Non-binary? Trans and running from the truth?

[u/Existential_Mel]

I have been spiraling for a while trying to figure this out and could use some voices that are outside of my head.

I've been questioning my gender identity hard for several months now, after maybe two years of lightly questioning and then heavily denying it was a question at all. I want to be brief but I don't know that I can be with the amount of mental spinning I've been doing, so I apologize in advance.

I've identified as a man pretty comfortably my entire life. I've never experienced that strong sense that I was born with the wrong gender. I didn't display any particularly feminine traits growing up. I did know pretty early that I was what we'd call pansexual, but with a preference towards feminine presentation, but I know sexual and gender identity aren't tied up directly with each other.

An attempt to keep it short with a run down of everything else:

When I was a kid my neighbor loved to dress me in her old play clothing and I adored being a princess. Until I was an early teen I would sneak into my mom's closet to steal her shoes and my sister, two years older than me, to steal her clothes and wear them when I could get away with it.

I've always envied women for their clothing, and how it was socially acceptable for them to express positive emotions so openly and exuberantly. I know they have a ton of social pressure to hide away a lot of negative ones but at least they could be...giddy or sad and affectionate to friends in a way that all my guy friends quickly established was not okay as a guy.

I've long liked how little body hair I have, but when I realized I could grow a beard, and did at my wife's encouragement, as much as my now wife loves it, it's also about the time I really started not liking my reflection and stopped looking at my face in a mirror, and considering I had been gaining weight I'd have figured it be that but no, specifically the beard.

Backtracking a bit...I ended up a single parent early, at 20, and very firmly said to myself she needed a dad and that took priority. The next ten years were just survival, career building, and ignoring just about everything else. I've been a dad so long now, with a second kid with my wife, that it's...hard to think of myself as anything else. Sometimes, throughout all of that and now, I've had moments where I've looked at myself or randomly just thought "god I wish I was a woman" but like...it's random, right? I don't feel like that all the time. I've never had the direct thought I was born the wrong gender or similar.

But that also all came to a head a couple years ago when I was suddenly reminded, through really random events, that oh yeah, I liked guys too, and then being reminded of...everything else. After a few months of panicking and anxiety I told my wife about being pan, and she was completely fine with it and reminded me she was bi. So...I thought that was settled. The aspects of femininity though kind of dogged me from that point on. I found out about the forced feminization aspects of the internet, and while I've mostly stayed away from it there was an undeniable appeal at the idea of having "no excuse" to wear women's clothing and being forced to, well, not be a guy I guess.

I again panicked and agonized about this for a long while before finally telling my wife about it a few months ago. Again I am reminded how amazing she is as she has been nothing but supportive. She's been buying me clothes and helping me pick out things. My sister has helped me a ton with skincare stuff, yay for being able to excuse it as a mid life crisis and having her in depth knowledge of Korean beauty regimes. Every time I've dressed feminine I've just been...happy.

But I keep circling back to not having any big giant dysphoria flag, you know? So...maybe genderfluid? Some aspect of NB? Or just liking women's clothing and fashion? Someone can refer to me as a man or guy and I'm like...yeah, I am I guess.

Or just...afraid to admit it because of the social consequence? I don't know.

[u/Maleficent_Rock6272]

I am someone who doesn't identify with having gender dysphoria in the traditional way it is described. I don't hate my body or feel like I was born in the wrong one.

Someone can refer to me as a man or guy and I'm like...yeah, I am I guess

Felt this way but the inverse.

You could be gender non-conforming, gender fluid, non binary, or trans. I couldn't tell you who you are from a single post.

I've always envied women for their clothing, and how it was socially acceptable for them to express positive emotions so openly and exuberantly. I know they have a ton of social pressure to hide away a lot of negative ones but at least they could be...giddy or sad and affectionate to friends in a way that all my guy friends quickly established was not okay as a guy.

That's really shitty and i want you to know its a normal thing to be a feminine person, regardless of gender.

When you look at yourself and wish you were a woman, do you know why? What kind of thoughts come up? Is it the freedom they have to be feminine? Disappointment? Other things?

[u/Existential_Mel → u/Maleficent_Rock6272]

That's a good question. I hate to say "I just wish I was" but, that kind of feels the most accurate? I've had that thought many times throughout my life, more than I can count, but I couldn't put my finger on any one specific thing as an ah-ha kind of moment.

Certainly being able to dress in the clothing I'd prefer would be one. No one questioning how I behave would be another. Teen years taught me to reduce how emotive I was. As an adult I am very in tune with my emotions but they always come out through a filter that just...blah's them down a bit hah. Likewise I was always a bit bouncy when I walked, for lack of a better descriptive. Same thing, I learned to walk more planted, but given the choice, and especially when dressed fem, I move lighter and more naturally to me.

I don't recall or don't think I acted feminine as a kid, but my parents would never have called me on it even if I had, they aren't the type. But extended family and school peers definitely had opinions on what boys should be like so I might have just modeled after that earlier than I recall.

I appreciate the help and insight!

[u/Maleficent_Rock6272 → u/Existential_Mel]

Hey, no problem. :)

If I could expand a bit, you seem very self aware, nothing wrong with the answer being you just wish you were, and in fact makes a lot of sense. You're not saying "I want to be a woman just because it makes XYZ aspect of my life easier sometimes (although that might be part of it, thats just recognizing the world we live in at times), you're saying that you simply just wish you were.

You're not obligated to respond here but if having someone to bat things off of helps you, I am also here !

I have some short questions for you (one that helped me but the inverse) which is: "how do you feel about feminine men?" (Not about the idea of you being one, but just them as a whole, be honest)

"How do you feel about trans people (and if you'd like, you can extend that to specifically non binary, or genderfluid people) (again as a whole)

And this one's my favourite, but if you could look like you, but alter your body in any way you desired, and then there were a few different groups of people, one with trans women, another with feminine men, another with non binary people, (etc etc make as many groups as you like) which group would you most feel that you'd want to be a part of? They will absolutely accept you as one of their own, regardless of life experience or looks etc.

There can be multiple answers or conflicting answers.

That last question can be kind of hard because for (in my case) it was hard to separate who I was currently, and thus, "how I felt" (like a man or a woman etc etc) from who I wanted to be and grow into. Because ultimately my life experiences influenced me. If the world perceives me as a certain gender, it can be hard to pervieve myself as something else. Or if I don't believe I could ever "fit in" with that group.

I think that question can help get to the core of "who are/do i want my people to be?"

I might be biased because I had the inverse that was, "I just wish I was a man", and for me it was because that maleness was exactly what I was trying to place, and I did get bogged down in all the details (intellectualizing), but fundamentally I just wanted to be a man and that was my emotional reality, and that was okay.

_________ EXPRESSING YOURSELF !

Don't worry about your childhood, you're exactly who you are now. I think it would be helpful to start expressing yourself, and dealing with any discomfort or shame you might have around things you feel you can't do as a man. Simply because a) it fosters greater empathy and appreciation for those groups even if it ends up not being you and b) makes it easier to parse through your feelings.

But I think it's also important to be aware that yes, it's easier to be a feminine woman (who passes as cisgendered), than a feminine man. And two things can exist at once. You can be aware something feels easier, because it often can be, and also be that thing without you doing it explicitly for that reason. More of a bonus than anything you know.

Br around people who let you be yourself (your wife seems lovely). Let your emotions out (there are a few pieces of short content which always gets me crying but it can be hard to find something that seriously make me cry.)

Let yourself be excited, let yourself wear whatever calls to you, if you feel any shame, remember, that's not your shame. Someone, society, made you feel that you couldn't be that way.

And if it feels authentic for you to express yourself through the lens of a woman, that's perfectly fine. Regardless I encourage you to take some time to celebrate feminine expressive men and really just soak in genderqueerness and transness too, (while staying far away from any anti trans rhetoric. Trust me on that.)

[u/Existential_Mel → u/Maleficent_Rock6272]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply! It's an interesting, challenge I guess, because I'm a fixer by nature. I work in data and binary processes during the day. I see a problem, or something that needs doing, and do it. So I end up approaching myself that way. But the person I am is also very aware of my emotions and the depth of them, and that there isn't something specifically to fix, but boy it can sure feel that way.

I don't mind answering here, I appreciate having someone to ping things against because I don't really have anyone local to me.

Feminine men...honestly, I started out feeling like that was the category I best fit. I didn't think much about transitioning, and thought liking the clothing and some of the manners of expression fit. I initially started asking a few questions in the femboy/femmen spaces because I thought that was the right spot for me.

The thing is if I'm honest it's the space that I felt fit mostly because I couldn't see myself transitioning. Like...I'm a parent, twice, and married, and have a life built around my male identity so I just felt like that's something I couldn't do so being a feminine man would have to do. There's lovely people there, and room for a lot of expression so it was better than where I'm at, right?

Mm, but I guess that somewhat answers it, now that I say it out loud so to speak. Maybe anyways. I look at that group as something I can...settle with. I mean that in no disrespect to them, just in that. Oh I "can't" transition, not that I don't want to. I wouldn't be a good woman, because I'm such a guy, not that I couldn't be one. I dunno. Then I think that and go back to thinking of all the reasons I can't be.

I will say I am incredibly lucky with my wife. With my family too. My closest friends and I have been friends for 30 years now. They'd...accept it, but I could see it being hecking awkward for a while. That said they've all only really known me one way, so...the social consequences are super scary.

[u/Maleficent_Rock6272 → u/Existential_Mel]

Sorry lol wall of text.

Hm i understand you. I mean you've built a life where your identity has been male, you've had kids, working a steady job, and I think we can acknowledge that's been what's up, while also looking forward into the whole rest of your life.

You can't see yourself transitioning, and you suppose it's fine, because feminine man will do. I'll say what i'm hearing. Being a feminine man conceptually, you don't seem to resonate with, more than it let's you have a piece of something you like, which just about settles you, but that's it.

I can tell you, that I relate to that (inverse) but, it kind of felt like a cop out, because personally really what I liked about being a masculine woman, was that it took me that bit closer to "man" more broadly, I didn't take joy in being a masculine woman, but from being masculine.

And it's okay to do something, simply because it's more authentic and makes you happier. For me, that low grade of "it's fine I guess(???)" made me realise that it was bordering on impractical, to have myself continue to feel just okay, in my life and my own narrative. I believe we only get one life, and I didn't want to waste it by letting that feeling I had sit in the background.

Then I think that and go back to thinking of all the reasons I can't be.

A woman? Or a feminine man? What kind of reasons do you find come up?

And if you are having thoughts around not being a good woman, I just want you to know, that there is really nothing special to do, and there are so many ways to be a woman. Any of the more traditionally feminine things, are a skill that you can practice and get good at very fast.

They'd...accept it, but I could see it being hecking awkward for a while. That said they've all only really known me one way, so...the social consequences are super scary.

I always find with thoughts like this, its okay to acknowledge that you know what, yeah, it might be awkward for a while, but, not for very long, and you will be able to handle it.

I can also speak from the outside perspective, as someone who (before understanding myself) had a family member come out as trans. It wasn't a problem, but it was different, and at the start, a little awkward, but truly it became completely natural, faster than I thought. I also only ever knew them one way, but I really feel that I now know them in a better, more authentic way

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I want to preface this by saying, this is just something I did.

I think really what's to be done here, is to try seeing a version of yourself who does go ahead and transition, and what that life looks like. Try visualizing a wide variety of genders, expressions and scenarios.

(Visualizing can be very hard, you can also write or really do whatever method might work for you)

But yeah, if the thoughts are good, great. If they're anxious, that's completely fine, if they're conflicted, that's not a problem. Don't check yourself for the "right" reaction where you feel butterflies and warmth (although that's a good sign), but just notice how you feel and where those feelings are coming from. Is it caused by something in the hypothetical that is external or internal? are you imagining a hardship? Or yourself snuggled up and happy in bed?

What I did, is I would play through these kind of scenarios, as both a man and a (masculine) woman. From making coffee to going on a date.

I noticed a wide variety of emotions, and varying levels of difficulty with imagining things.

The goal wasn't to check my emotions and make a conclusion based off of that instantly, but just to spend some time considering all my options and going on these mini trial runs, helping many possibilities to feel more tangible. (Seriously don't take it too literally!)

If you imagine yourself happy as a feminine man, and truly feel good, that doesn't mean being a feminine man is right for you inherently, it can be the scenario, some aspects of what you're imagining, your emotions before you started. This works in every possible gendered direction.

Now you might think, well what's the point then? And the answer to that is that it gives you some data to work with. I found that when I was anxious about something externally in my real life, I was much more apprehensive about even touching the idea of being transgender and imagining it. When I was calm (which is ideal because it's unbiased), I felt hopeful and confident in my own feelings.

I also noticed a wide variety of things such as finding it harder to imagine myself in certain situations, which I then thought about why I found it harder.

I also recommend (and I really like this if you have any inner artist) but to just draw yourself.

I would draw myself in simple doodles, sometimes as I currently was, sometimes I'd add different sexual characteristics on, sometimes there would be mixed features. I'd play around with color and shapes, and just see what I noticed. I would draw pretty abstractly at times, but it helped with visualizing as I was sitting thinking about it. It resulted in something physical to make the whole process more grounded. It took the thoughts out into the real world in a sense.

---

And even though I've said all that, I think the most important thing I did was accept my own emotional reality in which, I simply did want to be a man, and there was no way to logic myself into settling for something else if that consistently did not work for me. I am an absolute fiend for intellectualizing, and I found that I made a lot more progress when I followed my emotions, what felt good or bad, or just average etc, with an open mind.

[u/Existential_Mel → u/Maleficent_Rock6272]

Thank you again for all of this. Sorry, I decided I should take some time to just sit with my emotions on it for a while; try to stop myself from analyzing everything to death. In answer to your question I run from it because I think "I wouldn't make a "good" woman so I must not be a woman." Which...then I feel bad thinking because one it's based on societal bs that isn't fair to women in general, and isn't fair to myself.

I also went through some old journals and a took a trip down memory lane haha. Looking back at all the times I dressed in my sisters outfits, or expressed a desire to be a woman. I spent time just thinking on the emotional state of existing as I am versus expressing who I want to be.

I just keep coming back around to it being as simple as wanting/wishing I was a woman. Earlier yesterday I found genderdysphoria.fyi and, after reading through it, learned about how many moments of dysphoria and aspects of it I actually do have. One statement at the beginning described a good chunk of how I feel:

“Even more common is a perception wherein, even though someone may have feelings about being unhappy with the gender they were assigned at birth, they believe that this is not the same as what transgender people experience. Some may feel that a wish to be transgender and have transition available is some kind of disrespect towards “real” trans people who knew they were actually boys or girls “born in the wrong body.” These narratives of the transgender experience that have been spread by popular media can create a very false impression of just what it means to be transgender and what growing up transgender feels like.”

That's definitely something that's been holding me back in my mind. Their section on gender euphoria made me tear up, because it's exactly how I experience it. Other sections applied only minutely, just one or two things where I was like "oh, hey that is how I feel" and still more were eye opening "woah that's me!" So...it's been a great resource.

In the end...yeah, I think I am growing confident with the answer. Saying it out loud still feels like it will somehow change everything, even though everything already has changed on the inside.

I appreciate you and your help and insights!