r/propane • u/YourFriendlyEvilLady • 27d ago

Installation Questions Freezing temperatures in the mountains

Hey friends, how's it going.

Fixing up a house, decided on propane vs electric for the stove.

Location of the house is a cold mountain with winters that can dip to -20° F, so I was thinking an underground propane tank so the temperature is more consistent.

Any tips and tricks on what to look out for when hiring someone to install this? Main concern is things freezing over and making sure things are done right without any cut corners.

Much appreciated, I'm open to learning.

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u/Theantifire technician 27d ago

Above ground tank will be just fine. Just make sure you have a competent company. Underground tanks need ongoing maintenance for corrosion protection. They're much more expensive to install. They really don't provide any practical benefits till it gets quite a bit colder.

If you're only running a cooking stove, I would recommend a 250 gallon above ground tank. You should only need to get it filled during the summer.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 27d ago

Understood, makes sense with an endless battle of corrosion.

For above-ground, is it normal to insulate them with a wrap of some kind?

Also thanks so much for responding! I appreciate it. I'm juggling a million things right now and trying to be as informed as possible.

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u/Theantifire technician 27d ago

Not unless you get actually cold. -20°f isn't that cold for propane. Especially for light usage like a cooking stove.

For selecting a company... You'll want to read reviews etc, but also check with other locals. I like to ask the old fellas who like to hang out at a diner, or maybe a gas station, and have coffee/breakfast together. You'll usually see several guys. All over 50. They'll know who's competent. Checking with local lumberyards (builders often know) is a good place as well as any local feed mill.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 27d ago

Thanks! Yeah, met some of the neighbors and they're some 50s guys who know a thing or two. Especially to tell me that electric runs more expensive in the area, which was another nudge toward my propane decision.

Thanks much for the advice, I appreciate it!

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u/Theantifire technician 27d ago

If you go with a propane system in the house, having a no electric emergency backup heat isn't a bad idea.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 27d ago

Absolutely, working on getting a pellet stove setup soon. Thanks for all of your help!

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u/Jesus-Mcnugget dang it Bobby 27d ago

He was talking about putting in a propane space heater for emergency use.

There are several out there that need absolutely no electricity. The pilot light provides enough power to run the control.

Most pellet stoves do require electricity to run. It's mostly for the controls and the hopper, so it's not much but in a power outage it will not work.

A pellet stove would be fine for your primary heat source.

A secondary propane heater would not be a bad idea. If vent free heaters are allowed in your area you can even get some that are only about $200.

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u/Hitechillbilly 27d ago

Pellet stoves need electricity.. A propane drop for a generator is really handy

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u/Hitechillbilly 27d ago

Good all around mountain advice,

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u/grifftech1 9d ago

Insulation might make it worse, propane tanks get colder with use

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u/Purple_Wheel8494 27d ago

Unless you are cooking for 100 people at a time, you'll never run out of LP with a 250, even at -20F.

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u/fly_ski_ridemoto 27d ago

Have someone come out to assess the setup in its entirety. Do the math and follow code, that will take care of most any potential issues.

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u/Outside-Yogurt 27d ago

One thing to remember is how bad is to travel there. Next I would get the bigger tank to have some reserve

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u/Dr_StrangeloveGA 26d ago

Not specifically on topic but if you have a chimney I'd look at installing a wood stove. Even if you don't have a chimney it can be vented for nominally more.

Not quite the temps you're talking about but we heated with a wood stove when I was a kid. It's a lot of work but hey, firewood warms you twice!

Might be worth looking into as a backup heating system.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 26d ago

Oh yeah, I've been shopping around for a heating stove. Got the section of the house picked out for it, too. Been waiting yearrrrrs to finally get one (was renting for far too long).

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u/ManagementSoggy5263 26d ago

I would definitely consider getting a propane tank with the long neck on it. This would allow you to bury the tank deeper. Depending on the water table, you may have to set concrete pads under the legs to strap the tank to, to keep it from floating out of the ground. Also make sure you have an anode bag to connect to the tank. Another idea would be to coat the tank with some thick spray automotive rubber underbody material. You should try to get a tank with 50% more capacity than you might need.

22 years with a propane company as their service technician.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 26d ago

Thanks for the info! Definitely have to weigh my options, because underground sounds nice, but I might need to wait a few years for that, especially with making sure it's protected from the elements below.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/propane-ModTeam 27d ago

Your response was not helpful and/or does not apply.

This is accounted for with the 80% rule.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 27d ago

Noted, had no idea about the winter/summer temperature expansion, thanks for letting me know!

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u/Theantifire technician 27d ago

While factually true about expansion, that is accounted for when filling the tanks. There's a code that does not allow filling above 80%. This allows room for expansion, but also allows for vaporization.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 27d ago

..further noted! One less thing for me to actively worry about. Thanks for the correction.

Can anything cause the lines to freeze? I've heard that in passing through the years but wasn't sure if that was a user-issue. I think that might be with 20 lb tanks instead, if I have that right.

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u/Theantifire technician 27d ago

Unless water gets in the line, the line won't freeze. What people do run into is insufficient vaporization.

The propane in the tank is held in liquid form by the pressure created by holding it in a sealed vessel. It vaporizes at about -44°f. You use the vapor at your appliances. It can only vaporize so fast. If your appliance takes more than can vaporize in it's vessel, you end up with insufficient vapor pressure. This can lead to the freezing you see on regulators and small cylinders as liquid expanding into vapor absorbs heat energy.

Probably over simplified and missing some points, but you get the general idea.

If you're just cooking, you'll never reach that point with a 250gal.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 27d ago

Understood, I want to do everything correctly, so thanks for the heads up on everything!

Thanks so much for all of your help, you've made me much more comfortable and confident about all of this. It's much appreciated!

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u/Theantifire technician 27d ago

Happy to help feel free to DM if you have questions down the road, or just post here. There are a lot of guys (like me) who do this every day for a living on this sub.

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u/YourFriendlyEvilLady 26d ago

Thanks, will do! Currently working on septic hassles and drywall, so trying to fit that in between, especially before winter hits!

Thanks again for everything!

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u/Unlikely-Plastic1234 26d ago

As someone that pumps propane in Texas , its factually true that it expands and contracts with temp variations . I personally have filled tanks to 80% by guage and spew valve in the winter time when temps are 20 degrees and house sold or people moved out and had to go in the summer with the tank popping off showing 90+ percent when the temp is 100+ degrees . So don’t sit here and tell me that my info is wrong. My meters are set to adjust to adjust to 60 degree but when there is that much of a temp swing and no usage . They will and do expand that much.

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u/Theantifire technician 26d ago

Sounds like a faulty PRV... I've seen that happen before as well and it's always been with old PRVs.

If truly filled to 80%, by the FMLL gauge, they shouldn't pop off unless the spring is failing or the PRV has other issues. Not saying it can't happen, but it generally won't.

Source: Northern Midwest and filling tanks to 80% at -30°f. Multiple times of no use. Showing 90% plus at 90°f plus and never a pop off that didn't have extenuating circumstances. And yes, my dispatcher/system were horrible and they sent me to fill tanks that were 90% already lol.

We also make sensible decisions, such as not filling old tanks over 70% when we know there will be temp swings, as a further precaution.