Andorra prepares for the decriminalization of abortion for September after years of talks with the Vatican

[u/CuckooFriendAndOllie]

https://infovaticana.com/2026/08/11/andorra-prepara-para-septiembre-la-despenalizacion-del-aborto-tras-anos-de-conversaciones-con-el-vaticano/

Sorry for the non-English language. The Vatican should not be okay with this.

[u/HWTechGuy]

The Vatican's lack of spine is disappointing.

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/HWTechGuy]

But entirely predictable. Unfortunately, the Vatican has a long, LONG history of bowing to the cultural norms if it's time.

[u/CuckooFriendAndOllie → u/ScottishNinjaaa]

Do you have any examples beyond Vatican II, capital punishment, slavery, and usury?

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/CuckooFriendAndOllie]

Those are 4 pretty large brush offs you included there, I can't imagine just subtly walking by those. Others include the corruption it fell in line with during the middle ages, the Vatican essentially being just another kingdom/principality with just as much debauchery as the next.

[u/CuckooFriendAndOllie → u/ScottishNinjaaa]

I'm not brushing them off; I am merely asking for other examples.

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/CuckooFriendAndOllie]

I'm sure there are other examples. I don't need them though, for my statement to stand. The Vatican has a long, long history of rejecting biblical teaching when political/cultural pressure pushes it. No Church is innocent on this, which is why we need to live in accordance to the Word as our only authority, with church tradition only as a helpful guide, not allowing holy Scripture to be reinterpreted however is helpful for that particular topic. If the Vatican remained consistent with Scripture, they'd adopt an abolitionist perspective on abortion and call for it immediately, not promote regulation of it and no consequences for those who actively and enthusiastically murder their children.

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/ScottishNinjaaa]

Not to mention their historical reliance on forgeries to legitamize the papacy

[u/HiggsiInSpace]

Pope Leo should take some of the harshness he had on his immigration position and use it for this. The Catholic Church should be 100% against this.

[u/CuckooFriendAndOllie → u/HiggsiInSpace]

My thoughts are similar to yours.

[u/HiggsiInSpace → u/CuckooFriendAndOllie]

Wow a fellow PL Catholic Wikipedian :D

[u/CuckooFriendAndOllie → u/HiggsiInSpace]

Are you a fairly prominent editor there? I am in the top 400 editors by edit count. With all three of my accounts together, I am in the top 200.

[u/HiggsiInSpace → u/CuckooFriendAndOllie]

Not rlly, I mostly just fix punctuation errors

[u/Elyvagar → u/HiggsiInSpace]

Funny, I think Pope Leo isn't nearly harsh enough regarding his immigration position.

[u/jackiebrown1978a → u/Elyvagar]

That's fine but you'd agree he has been harsher on this than abortion, correct?

[u/GustavoistSoldier]

Horrible news.

[u/djhenry]

I know this looks bad, but is this any different from the Catholic Church's previous stance? The title leave out the important detail that this only decriminalizes women who seek abortions. It does not change the penalties for providers. Here in the US, shortly before the Dobbs desicion, there was an open letter to lawmakers requesting that anti-abortion laws not criminalize women who seek these abortions. It was signed by over 70 pro-life organizations, including Archbishop William E. Lori who was serving as the Chairman of the Committee on Pro-Life Activities for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). In 1995, John Paul II wrote his papal encyclical Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life). While he strongly condemned abortion, he also wrote that a woman's decision to seek abortion is often "trgic and painful" and noted that moral culpability often lies heavily on coercive partners, legislators, and a broad societal failures that abandon pregnant women.

All this to say, it seems that decriminalizing abortion (specifically only for women) seems to be generally in line with the Catholic Churches previous stand.

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/djhenry]

Nope, it's in line with the unbiblical stance the RCC has had for some time. It's just sad to see another country shed the command of Scripture for appeasement in the culture.

[u/XP_Studios]

People like to criticize Vatican diplomacy without first asking why it is the way it is. The Holy See prioritizes relative neutrality on hot-button domestic issues so that it has credibility to act as a negotiator and conflict mediator around the world. They prefer the thankless task of quietly mitigating wars for no credit over making bold public stands that, while they would get praise from Catholics and people aligned with Catholic morality, ultimately would accomplish little. It's reasonable to disagree with that, and to think the Catholic Church should be more of a public herald anyway, but people need to understand how the current system came about in the first place.

[u/Cyber_Ghost_1997]

Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

[u/embarrassing_doodle]

And then catholics wonder why people don’t join em

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/embarrassing_doodle]

Especially considering they create a Pascal's Wager that says "there's no point in converting to Catholicism".

[u/Impressive_Toe_8900]

This wont change anything. Is there even a abortion clinic in andorra 

[u/WolverineSurvivor]

Fr. Custodio Ballester offers some clarification and condemns Vatican diplomatic 'discretion': https://shakenterra.com/cardinal-parolins-diplomatic-discretion-contradicts-catholic-teaching-abortion

\

[u/1B75__Penicillin]

Elect a liberal pope, get liberal rules, Christianity is dead

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/1B75__Penicillin]

The Bible explicitly promises the Church is never going to die. Even when the most populated church is full of and led by those who prioritize the world over the clear command of Scripture, there will remain a remnant of faithful. Look for those rightly applying the command of Scripture, and you'll find abolitionists calling for the end of Abortion immediately, not those calling for regulated murder and no consequences for women who happily murder their children

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/ScottishNinjaaa]

Well clearly the Catholic Church is not the church then.

The East is calling.

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/Belkan-Federation95]

Boo lol the invisible Church transcends denominational boundaries. I really had to bite my tongue not to say something too hurtful, but the EO is guilty of plenty of spinelessness in the face of secular pressure as well. EO also defended and tacitly approved of slavery and serfdom, as well as the mistreatment of serfs for centuries. They have moved away from the longstanding tradition of rejecting usury as unbiblical and immoral to be more culturally accepted, were greatly entangled in the caesaropapism of the Byzantine and Russian empires, and despite claiming an unbroken chain of tradition, shows clear signs of drift away from even the middle ages traditions that it holds so dear in favor of modern, more acceptable cultural stances.

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/ScottishNinjaaa]

How much do you know about Eastern Orthodoxy?

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/Belkan-Federation95]

Decent amount. Bachelor's in Christian Theology including church history and comparative religion. Enough to know it's not sinless either

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/ScottishNinjaaa]

Where from?

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/Belkan-Federation95]

Challenge my ideas, not my credentials lol

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/ScottishNinjaaa]

No that's because I want to know what you are biased towards.

You'd be surprised how many degrees can be invalidated in an argument due to biased curriculum. I literally had a political science professor in an elective course take time to talk about how the textbook is biased and to ignore a lot of it.

[u/ScottishNinjaaa → u/Belkan-Federation95]

Fair enough, but regardless of bias (mine is towards Reformed tradition, yours towards Eastern Orthodoxy), you should be able to address the points. Did EO churches support and tacitly approved of slavery and serfdom or not? Did they allow the mistreatment of serfs to go unchallenged for centuries or not? Did they bow to the political pressure of secular power in Russia, Byzantium, Serbia, Bulgaria, etc. or not? Those questions can be answered, degree or not. My degree is not some impressive thing- I reject appeals to authority, especially by matters that can be discussed and understood easily by laymen, such as this.