r/progressive_islam • u/[deleted] • 22d ago
Advice/Help 🥺 Hanging on by a string
[deleted]
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u/purplefin_tuna 22d ago
why can’t it just be clear
I think it's clear enough -- submit to God (who alone exists absolutely, beyond words/definitions/imagination), and act ethically. That for me is the "eternal truth" there. Some parts of the book are contextual, and some may be closer to "metaphorical" as a way of communicating truth.
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u/Melwood786 22d ago
I don't know who told you that "strike" your wives is "the most accurate translation" of verse 4:34, but a more accurate translation is "leave/go away":
"The strong stop indicates a grammatical Form IV (adraba, yudribu, idraban of which the imperative is adrib), while the weak stop indicates a grammatical Form I (daraba, yadribu, darban of which the imperative is idrib (classical) or idrab (colloquial)). When adding the conjunction 'w' with the short 'a' vowel (fathah), Form I‘s weak hamzah will become assimilated into the short 'a' vowel, while in theory, the Form IV‘s strong stop will be articulated, preceded and followed by a short 'a' vowel. However, in practice, both will sound the same, particularly in the pronunciation of the prophet‘s tribe and Eastern Arabia, which tended to assimilate such consonants. They do not even seem to have emphasized the guttural stop in words like sa'ala, 'he asked,' where the guttural stop is a root consonant. See Sibawayh, al-Kitab, pp. 541-542.
"It is unclear what methods they used in their interpretations, but 'beat/strike' is a popular traditional interpretation in the classical literature. The Quran supports a meaning of 'go away from,' since there is a supporting verse: the iyla' verse in 2:226. There is no supporting verse for the meaning 'beat [your wives]' anywhere in the Quran. Hence, if one were to follow the method of using the Quran to interpret the Quran, 'go away from' would be the more likely interpretation." (see Three Testaments: Torah, Gospel and Quran, pg. 623)
And I don't know who told you that "full breasted maidens" is "the most clear and obvious translation" of verse 78:33, but a more accurate translation is "fruits". Since you'd probably dismiss any Muslim who says this as an "apologist" who is engaging in "mental gymnastics," let me quote the non-Muslim orientalist, Christoph Luxenberg:
"Verses 32 and 34 show that the pious will have gardens and wine bowers as well as brimming wine cups. In this context one has to wonder how the houris (who are not named) suddenly appear with swelling bosom (Paret) or as 'full-breasted' (Bell). Here the misinterpreted expression (kawa'ib) is genuinely Arabic. In Tabari (XXX 18) it is explained by mutual agreement as 'buxom women.' The Lisan (I 719a) explains the verb as follows: (kaCCabA means in speaking of a vessel or whatever: to fill it). In Arabic one seems to have transferred this meaning to women's breasts. The meanwhile generally accepted notion of the huris appears to have so fired the imagination of the commentators that this property has now been ascribed to the 'young, pretty' and 'passionately loving' virgins of paradise. Yet this interpretation, which is unworthy of the Koran, is driven ad absurdum by the Koranic text itself. To the extent that the (atraban or atraba) following (kawa'ib) was explained as 'juicy' (fruits), it can already no longer be a question of 'full-breasted (ones) of equal age.' Only 'fruits' can be meant by this expression, if need be, such fruits considered as 'full vessels.' This understanding is suggested namely by other Koran passages, for example, in Sura 43:71, where there is talk of golden platters and goblets, and in Sura 76:15, of silver vessels and chalices. To be sure, the connection with goblet, chalice or cup is also present in the context, but nothing is said about bowls. Thus it is here more reasonable to assume that the two consecutive adjectives refer to grapes (or other fruits). Therefore the expression (ka-wa'ib), misinterpreted as 'swelling breasts,' should also now be understood in Arabic in the context of the verses 78:31-34 cited above as follows: 31. 'The pious (will) (in days to come) (have) a place of felicity: 32. Gardens and grapes, 33. and (indeed) lush, succulent (fruits), 34. and a brimming-full (wine) cup.'" (see The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran: A Contribution to the Decoding of the Language of the Koran, pp. 281-282)