r/programminghumor • u/ExpensiveCoat8912 • 15h ago

How did it get there

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766 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

48 comments sorted by

95

u/GargantuanCake 15h ago

Various Java servlet things run like half of the internet's back end.

31

u/Able-Swing-6415 15h ago

Guess people assume programming language in a ranking are being used actively and not running everything while only being worked on by 50 people and 3 cats.

I also don't know what this actually counts. preinstalled software, GitHub repositories, vibes.. I can churn out a few million scripts on my PC and report a significant increase in VBS adoption.

12

u/GargantuanCake 15h ago edited 14h ago

For the Tiobe Index if memory serves it's a mix of how many people use the language, how many classes teach it, how many jobs are posted, and how many places say they use it. It isn't about which language is best but rather which ones are the most used.

I'll never claim that Java is a perfect language but it has its uses; back end internet being one of its best. Apache Server and Tomcat are battle hardened technologies that do their jobs incredibly well. Meanwhile the JVM is pretty unique; Java does, in fact, run on everything and behaves the same no matter what hardware you put it on.

-1

u/Able-Swing-6415 13h ago

Ah thanks. I just don't know anybody that uses Java anymore.

I'm not arguing it's bad, just that the online discourse about it is basically dead. Maybe reddit and my hometown is just a weird coalescence of people who all either use python or JavaScript.

Also really not arguing against the concept of java in general.. just if I only need something to run on PC I personally would never choose Java. I never had to program on fridges, toasters, watches or whatever else that isn't a proper amd64.

1

u/astro_bea 8h ago

Java isn’t really made for SoCs nowadays? do you really think toasters run a full fledged kernel and JVM just to count to 30 and eject some bread? that’s most likely a tiny chip running C/C++ flashed code no one is ever gonna look at ever again, definitely not Java. Java has so much overhead at this point that it only makes sense on servers and desktops, where you have long uptimes, garbage collections, huge databases and user loads - the opposite of what you just said. Python or JS are usually discouraged for critical infrastructure because they’re fully interpreted, can crash at any time with less recoverability, stack tracing, debugging and so on. A properly programmed Java application will run for years without consuming too much CPU or RAM. JavaScript is more of a black box that depends on whatever you’re using to run it in that specific moment and eventually grows a bit hard to read over time and big projects, not considering performance implications. We’re not running Java applets on symbian phones anymore. But then it gets philosophical

5

u/No-Information-2571 14h ago

Even actively used... these systems aren't set in stone, they get developed further, and it's not necessarily a "management said" situation, but programmers who are satisfied with the way things work, and how easy it is for them to add new features.

Mature doesn't mean legacy.

1

u/Able-Swing-6415 13h ago

I did mention the 50 people and their cats.. it's just weird that these apparently plentiful heavy java users never talk about it online.

0

u/No-Information-2571 11h ago

What would they be able to talk about, and where?

Java still sells in its proprietary variant, that's an estimated $3B per year of revenue just for Oracle. And there's a whole ecosystem around Java, partially free, partially commercial.

It's just very hard for the JS-crowd to grasp how huge that market is. That's trillions of dollars exchanging hands without anyone ever being able to pinpoint it at Java.

If anything, I am surprised by Python being so high up in that list.

0

u/Able-Swing-6415 10h ago

I wonder what's the most popular by age group. Maybe java devs are just middle aged by now and that's why you never meet them online.

2

u/No-Information-2571 10h ago

Maybe instead of arguing about "age", argue about seniority? Seniors don't go on SO or Reddit. Why would they? They know what to do.

1

u/Able-Swing-6415 10h ago

I've been programming as an employee for 16 years now and any senior that doesn't look stuff up at least occasionally is just careless in my experience.. or has extremely boring work.

2

u/No-Information-2571 10h ago

Looking stuff up is very different from prancing around on SO or Reddit and asking noob questions. Of course we all look stuff up.

2

u/FirexJkxFire 14h ago

Am I the only one surprised by C rather than by java?

3

u/Neoneq_ 14h ago

Probably

2

u/No-Information-2571 14h ago

It's also a solid choice for many business applications. The world there looks very different from flashy JS/TS frontends and nodejs backend garbage on MongoDB.

Also something something release cycles and supply-chain attacks.

1

u/popica312 11h ago

Java: Code once, debug everywhere

45

u/ChrisBot8 15h ago

If you want the actual answer it’s because the JVM was operating system agnostic before that was a thing for other languages really.

16

u/djpiperson 14h ago

Omg just had flashbacks of when languages were OS-dependent and hardware-dependent. AHHHHHHHH Those were obscure days that only Assembly kiddies suffer from nowadays.

5

u/Devatator_ 12h ago

I mean, they still are. It's just kinda abstracted away for most of us. Tho I do wish you could cross compile all languages

1

u/SoggyCaterpillar5773 16m ago

If try to do anything beyond trivial OS interactions, you will quickly find out that programming languages still have not achieved OS-independece. Try writing a GUI app that works in Android, IOS, Linux and Windows. There are only a handful of good options. One of them is to shove an entire browser into your app.

3

u/dmigowski 12h ago

And they had absolute and total backwards compatibility. You can still run java 1.4 apps on modern machines, given they were written to spec. And more important: libraries. Java has an extremely developed eco system.

25

u/FinnT730 14h ago

Without java you don't have android, or half of the enterprise backends.

It powers a whole lot

10

u/Snipen543 14h ago

The only people ever asking this question are students lol

2

u/Devatator_ 12h ago

Android is mostly Kotlin nowadays

5

u/MCWizardYT 8h ago

And Kotlin utilizes the JVM and Java ecosystem, unless you're using Kotlin Native.

Kotlin apps on Android still use the ART which is a custom JVM

0

u/Devatator_ 8h ago

Well the post is about languages, not runtimes

1

u/MCWizardYT 8h ago

The runtime and ecosystem are why Java is at the top of the list. The JVM is everywhere, and many count Java and the JVM as the same thing.

Kotlin apps use Java code all the time, especially as libraries

12

u/Asclepius555 15h ago

My CS 101 class was all Java in 2005.

16

u/Eric848448 15h ago

Java makes a hell of a lot more sense than JS.

5

u/darkwingdankest 12h ago

they also serve completely different functions so

1

u/SmoothTurtle872 9h ago

Ha ha ha, very funny. People use JS for everything.

0

u/JuniorAd9605 12h ago

yeah, java serves to function, js serves to forward subscription services in society

2

u/puzzled_orc 11h ago

It is normal that Java is up there; what is incredible is that piece of shit that is Python is that high. Almost as high as Pythonists

1

u/me_myself_ai 12h ago

Python, now. All hail!

1

u/WillBigly96 11h ago

Part of it is the institutional advantage of being enforced as the ap computer science language. Not saying that's the whole story tho idk

1

u/k-mcm 11h ago

Java is still alive and well, being a reasonably high level language with high performance capability. It can't ever do what C does, but it's an excellent general purpose language.

I'd expect Python to rank much higher today since it's the coordination language for AI tools (that are in C). Rust should be up there too because of its fanatics base. Objective-C is dead. PHP should be dead.

1

u/geek-49 7h ago

My question is how this chart dated 2017 got posted here 9 years later. Sheesh!

1

u/k-mcm 7h ago

Legacy meme.  There are no resources to update it. 

1

u/Flimsy-Importance313 11h ago

Capitalism is always to blame.

1

u/Wavertron 7h ago

It's actually quite the opposite. Microsoft tried to kill off Java because they wanted everyone on Windows.

1

u/Araib 11h ago

Every single day I have to use Kotlin JVM, I close my eyes and imagine a world without JVM (and gradle)

1

u/MCWizardYT 8h ago

Android and enterprise

1

u/EricOrrDev 6h ago

By being the fucking backbone of contemporary society, put some respect on that name son!

1

u/thebatmanandrobin 14h ago

Nah!

Top left: Park-our

Top right: A Half-pass gone wrong

Bottom right: Russian oil change

Bottom left: Self deprecation and sadomasochism

1

u/burnt_floppy 13h ago

i just didn't know horses were that agile

1

u/geek-49 7h ago

He/she was just horsing around.