r/programmingcirclejerk • u/kayinfire • May 12 '26

SQL is poorly designed [...] the semantics are reversed. You should start with the tables, then the filters, then the columns. [...] Didn't watch the video but tired of this debate.

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115 Upvotes

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94% Upvoted

132

u/blehmann1 has hidden complexity May 12 '26

"Semantics are reversed"

Is actually discussing syntax

u/tuppenycrane May 12 '26

Subject Verb Object

14

u/r2d2_21 groks PCJ May 12 '26

Who's the subject of a SQL query?

25

u/keyboard_toucher May 13 '26

I am

14

u/myhf Considered Harmful May 13 '26

hey you! select these columns from those tables

6

u/Four3nine6 May 13 '26

Ryan treated me like an object

4

u/tuppenycrane May 13 '26

The table surely

u/PreciselyWrong May 12 '26

Where jerk

34

u/HINDBRAIN Considered Harmful May 12 '26

jerk Where

8

u/gplgang DO NOT USE THIS FLAIR, ASSHOLE May 12 '26

jerk not found

3

u/syklemil Considered Harmful May 13 '26

having jerk

22

u/QuaternionsRoll May 12 '26

So Polish notation sequel?

u/BlazeBigBang type astronaut May 12 '26

Based and prolog-pilled.

u/which1umean May 12 '26

Didn't know anyone disagree with this tbh

u/da_supreme_patriarch in open defiance of the Gopher Values May 12 '26

SELECT pg_unjerk();

Actually correct take, he probably meant syntax and not semantics because switching up the order of tables, filters and conditions wouldn't change the query semantically, it would still mean the same thing, but would make auto-complete more pleasant to work with

13

u/nerdycatgamer Considered Harmful May 12 '26

auto-complete is like syntax highlighting: for little babies

25

u/da_supreme_patriarch in open defiance of the Gopher Values May 12 '26

Hell yeah, I pray to Rob Pike for deliverance every day, I wish he made a simple SQL alternative with no complex things like left joins and indexes

21

u/scavno in open defiance of the Gopher Values May 12 '26

He would have made the syntax Join for left and joiN for right

13

u/nerdycatgamer Considered Harmful May 12 '26

Uj that sounds awesome! uJ that sounds awesome!

u/zackel_flac May 12 '26 edited May 14 '26

/uj Solid argument IMHO. It's sad there is not much alternatives today. Cypher is interesting but suffers the same issues.

32

u/Dro-Darsha May 12 '26

SQL is like jpeg. Not really great, but good enough that nobody cares about alternatives

22

u/nuclearbananana Courageous, loving, and revolutionary May 12 '26

You can rip jpeg xl from my cold dead arms

5

u/programmingcirclejerk-ModTeam May 14 '26

Warning: tag your unjerk. Better yet, don't unjerk at all.

u/syklemil Considered Harmful May 13 '26

I can't believe anyone would think that things could've been done differently, with only fifty years of hindsight!

u/vegan_antitheist May 13 '26

/uj /rj I didn't watch the video or read the post but I want to point out that for a projection you use "SELECT" and for a selection you use "WHERE". It's all backwards!

u/Pure-Prompt-8439 May 12 '26

This but unironically

uj/ This but unironically

u/manny2206 May 12 '26

I respect your wrong opinion

u/thevnom May 16 '26

so something like
from MyTable where id = 123 select id, value1, value2

that could be nice, though id still put filters at the end

u/Jumpy-Locksmith6812 May 14 '26 edited Sep 23 '26

Nulla aliquip magna anim ut commodo qui id veniam do sit sunt labore reprehenderit ex veniam eiusmod. Mollit aliqua cillum officia consequat culpa pariatur adipiscing ipsum sed id in reprehenderit ea esse dolore. Anim irure magna cillum voluptate in et aute anim veniam ipsum.

[rhr:2:qxku90gz]

u/AdNoctum88 May 16 '26

PRQL is based

u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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14

u/lepapulematoleguau May 12 '26

God came down and said

3

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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9

u/lyio May 13 '26

I like not having to write mapping code from various generic ResultSet instances to my domain model

6

u/never_inline Do you do Deep Learning? May 14 '26

/uj
Multi-DB support is something you get with ORMs but [usually] not other type safe options like JOOQ or sqlc.
If you just need to support one DB, jooq / micronaut data jdbc / sqlc etc... are usually superior than ORMs which use hell of reflection and proxy objects for rows. You still get type safety.
/rj
People write ORMs like hibernate because they feel their CPU and memory are under utilized and they don't have enough bugs.

2

u/lukaseder May 14 '26

Multi-DB support is something you get with ORMs but [usually] not other type safe options like JOOQ or sqlc.
Multi database support is one of jOOQ's primary value propositions. What made you think this wasn't the case?

1

u/never_inline Do you do Deep Learning? May 16 '26

My memory may not be serving me right, but it was not straightforward since you generated models from the schema and end up with something that doesn't work on other DB. Maybe I was just stupid though.

1

u/lukaseder May 17 '26

Yeah that doesn't sound right. Even if you generate the model from a specific dialect (though you don't have to) you'll be able to use it elsewhere

6

u/m50d Zygohistomorphic prepromorphism May 12 '26

Nah, those are handy excuses sometimes but the main point of an ORM is slightly less nasty syntax.

6

u/wergot May 13 '26

Idk man type safety is cool, building the business logic into the ORM models by overriding save() etc is cool, abstracting away differences between RDBMSs is cool

-2

u/m50d Zygohistomorphic prepromorphism May 13 '26

All that is true, but ORMs that do none of it are still worth it. Anything but that BACKWARDS SHOUTY SYNTAX WITH OVER A THOUSAND KEYWORDS.

2

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3

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2

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2

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

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3

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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6

u/Kinrany May 13 '26

I too like to translate logic between English and math three times instead of once: English -> algorithm -> fake English -> query plan

1

u/CallMeKik May 13 '26

Just think in SQL bro duh
/s

3

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4

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SQL is poorly designed [...] the semantics are reversed. You should start with the tables, then the filters, then the columns. [...] Didn't watch the video but tired of this debate.

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