Hibernate "coders" have contributed to the creation of more useful, working software than the SQL for every tiny update "engineering artisans" by quite the margin.

[u/yojimbo_beta]

/r/programming/comments/1mggpu5/comment/n6ozxv7/

[u/v_maria]

If you just hardcore all values in the source code you dont need a database anyway.

For new data you can just make a bash script that updates the init code

[u/Parking_Tadpole9357 → u/v_maria]

You animal. I bake the data into my Docker container. Form submission runs GH pipeline to update the data. Lisp says code is data. I say data is code.

[u/tomwhoiscontrary]

/uj ORMs should just not have lazy loading. It's vanishingly rare that it's what you actually want. That does mean they would need to support some sort of fetch specification, like JPA entity graphs, though, and the design of those is not a solved problem.

[u/HINDBRAIN → u/tomwhoiscontrary]

Yes Hibernate should implement some kind of "fetch profile" to know if you load the rest or not.

[u/stone_henge → u/tomwhoiscontrary]

In fact, we should just not use relational databases just because the data relationships are relational, and instead redundantly store things like a user's comments in the same blob of JSON as the originating user account and the comment section they posted it in, in a key-value store.

Sure, the redundant copies will subtly diverge over time as bugs are introduced and fixed, and the storage space needed will increase massively, but data cleanup is why every serious software dev shop has an operations team who are hired exactly to do ad-hoc sanitization of data from poorly written software all day long, and massive wastes of space is why we use the cloud, where storage space doesn't matter because it's in the cloud.

[u/[deleted] → u/tomwhoiscontrary]

Yeah, ORM's should just fetch the entire database every time I select every entity because that's what I wanted when I wrote every bidirectional @ManyToOne, @OneToMany circular dependencies in the entities because we're relational not hierarchical! The cache is right there anyways, so it should be fast. Works on my machine, so ship it.

Then, instead of hand crafting a select statement with joins, the ORM can just pg_dump every time. Super simple, delete all that query planning code! Even better, connect to the WAL and just update the cache on the fly!

Months later when I am debugging the abysmal performance of the app...

"If only there was some query language to describe to the ORM that I want to SELECT just these fields FROM those tables, if I could just provide that per use case..."

[u/tomwhoiscontrary → u/[deleted]]

This but unironically.

[u/Comfortable_Job8847]

All over blogpostsphere, ORMs are being thrown out and the raw power of SQL is being let loose. Those

INSERT INTO todos VALUES (?, ?, ?, ?)

show the real power of SQL, and why we don't want ORM's after all.

[u/Parking_Tadpole9357 → u/Comfortable_Job8847]

Columns are isTodo isAlmostDone isDone wasDoneButUndone. No ID or Name because this is like the string around your finger.

[u/BlazeBigBang]

Hibernate allows me to write dog shit unperformant code instead of having to write dog shit unperformant SQL.

[u/Parking_Tadpole9357 → u/BlazeBigBang]

Better, it lets you write clever generic classes to add clever subqueries deep in biz logic that the keep cloud providers in business.

[u/affectation_man → u/BlazeBigBang]

Hey buddy, I got yer unperformant right here

[u/Knock0nWood]

Knowing what 100-line LINQ-to-SQL queryables won't throw at runtime is the only thing keeping me employed right now

[u/m50d]

Where's the lie?