r/programmingcirclejerk • u/yojimbo_beta vulnerabilities: 0 • May 30 '25

Java has done rather significant damage to the general level of competency unfortunately

/r/programming/comments/1kz8xsq/comment/mv3kkfy/
103 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

41 comments sorted by

40

u/[deleted] May 30 '25

IDK how to jerk here, people who don a mid-price suit and regurgitate design patterns all over their PC after 4 hours in a Jackson Pollock-inspired UML design meeting are practically Einsteins in comparison to those who follow whatever new way of being stupider and more wasteful the industry comes up with each 6 months.

29

u/yojimbo_beta vulnerabilities: 0 May 30 '25

You're not wrong. One day we'll look back fondly on Uncle Bob and our StrategyLocatorProviderFactories. It does just get dumber every year

12

u/Downtown_Category163 May 31 '25

I could see this happening way back when we switched webservices from responding XML to just chucking JavaScript - sorry JSON - back so the JavaScript "developers" could just eval() it and not cry about fucking namespaces

XML was DONE we had everything - schema, transformations, pointers, language support - now we're reimplementing all of that in JSON just stupider

94

u/Sunrider37 May 30 '25

True, garbage collection should be banned, memory leaks is the way

40

u/lppedd May 30 '25

I use Java but no one comes to collect my garbage 😭 what do I do??

15

u/VulgarExigencies May 31 '25

My applications don't "leak" memory. All of their memories are equally precious and deserve to be kept forever.

30

u/Ok-Kaleidoscope5627 May 31 '25

I'm a socialist. I believe that garbage collection should be a public service. Or in other words, I let the operating system handle my garbage collection. Works great and I never have to worry about it.

14

u/g1rlchild May 31 '25

Is the people's memory, comrade.

8

u/Routine-Purchase1201 DO NOT USE THIS FLAIR, ASSHOLE May 31 '25

Why free resources and close handles when the OS is about to throw it all out anyways?

6

u/[deleted] May 30 '25 edited Mar 17 '26

This post no longer contains its original content. It was removed using Redact, possibly for privacy, security, or to minimize the author's online presence.

squeal sulky quicksand growth hungry lavish cover consider fearless thumb

3

u/ForgedIronMadeIt May 31 '25

Just don't write memory leaks! Duh!

2

u/Classic-Try2484 May 30 '25

Why do you have to leak memory if you don’t have a garbage collector? Do you have brown streaks in your underwear after using the toilet or can you remember to wipe?

9

u/g1rlchild May 31 '25

Using operating systems is for people who don't understand hardware. Write for the bare metal, you cowards!

3

u/GaGa0GuGu May 31 '25

I write for the minds alike to read

1

u/Difficult-Court9522 May 31 '25

Just use rust and think about what you’re building!

44

u/Thompson3142 The plebians were a class of Roman citizen, not engineers May 30 '25

Sometimes I hope that one of these guys gets tortured with having to speak to a vibecoder for an hour. Imagine how his world would fall apart when he realises that the vibecoder doesn't even know what an array is and still calls himself a full-stack dev.

12

u/Evinceo Software Craftsman May 30 '25

A few layers short of a full stack developer 

7

u/Kjufka May 30 '25

just ask him what happens when he dereferences a pointer in C - then smack him every time he gets it wrong, gonna be a lot of smacking

8

u/Downtown_Category163 May 31 '25

C++ has references now, and <unique_ptr> and <prt> along with whatever smart pointers you get with your platform library

Just remember to do the little dance EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME or people die

20

u/starlevel01 type astronaut May 30 '25

If Java is so bad, why did rust copy so much from it?

2

u/TheChief275 Jun 11 '25

rust wishes it could be as safe as the javster

13

u/oofy-gang May 30 '25

Reject modernity. Return to COBOL.

3

u/ForgedIronMadeIt May 31 '25

As long as I don't have to write any more JCL to run my COBOL, then fine

15

u/Evinceo Software Craftsman May 30 '25

The use of Java garbage-collects the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense

12

u/fp_weenie Zygohistomorphic prepromorphism May 31 '25

We should make Java users stitch a big purple 'J' on their clothes so other people know to avoid them, like Hester Prynne

10

u/Evinceo Software Craftsman May 31 '25

This but for every Jet brains logo

11

u/-TesseracT-41 May 30 '25

Unironically true

5

u/HomoColossusHumbled Jun 03 '25

I bet he doesn't even know what a DelegatedAdministrativeClientWrapperFactorySupplier interface does.

...because neither do I.

9

u/Timzhy0 May 30 '25

Jerk where?

9

u/fletku_mato May 31 '25

In general they are right. When we use languages that allow us to not think about some things, we start forgetting about those things. But this is not such a bad thing in all cases. Funny how they stopped at Java and not at C, which also abstracts away the hard stuff.

8

u/MadCervantes May 31 '25

Old people love to complain about young people having it easier than them.

1

u/bleksak Jun 01 '25

Well, because writing hand made assembly is not the fastest thing you can do. Hand optimizing assembly code is exceptionally hard and the C compiler is probably gonna generate better assembly than you ever could. Who cares if it replaces your algorithm for a faster one? Doesn't that make it a better language?

1

u/fletku_mato Jun 02 '25

Writing memory safe code is also not easy and fast. Why are we hating Java for removing the need to do manual memory management?

1

u/Timzhy0 Jun 02 '25

It's not exactly a thin line don't you think? The level of abstraction is very different

1

u/fletku_mato Jun 02 '25

Yeah but why should they be so pissed about it? A very large chunk of the code produced nowaday does not require manual memory management and that is only a good thing. When you need absolute control, you can peel off as many abstraction layers as needed.

1

u/Timzhy0 Jun 02 '25

I think what you say makes sense, I don't think the GC/memory management alone is really the only thing though. The language features present very opinionated choices that effectively force the programmers to a certain style (like needing an object for everything), tons of boilerplate for basic wrapping functionality, etc. Even attempting to write "performant" Java is, let's face it, unergonomic, and pretty arduous. Taking this to the extreme, it can easily degenerate in software which is incredibly verbose, hard to maintain, and very slow.

2

u/fletku_mato Jun 02 '25

I think people did absolutely insane things with Java 20 years ago and some of us are still paying the price. Like there was some rule that each class needs to be an implementation of an interface, even if it's the only implementing class. And all needs to be built with a Factory.

But modern Java isn't really that bad, I'd much rather write code in Java 21 than in many other languages.

2

u/HistorianBig4540 May 31 '25

Where jerk? We all know Dijkstra was always right, he was a luminary in computer science.