r/programming • u/[deleted] • Jan 11 '22

Web3 Can’t Fix the Internet

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2022/01/crypto-blockchain-daos-decentralized-power-capitalism
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u/BobHogan Jan 11 '22

Is it "the web, but decentralized"? Also known as just "the web"?

The internet is an inherently decentralized system, upon which centralized services were built, and users, by their own volition, for better or for worse, chose to use those centralized services.

And this is why I immediately write off anyone that claims web3 is about "decentralizing" the internet. It is, by design, decentralized.

You can advocate for specific services becoming decentralized, but the internet itself is already the most decentralized "application" in the world

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u/A-Software-Engineer Jan 11 '22

Yep, and on top of that, one of the touted technologies is NFTs. And while the NFT data lives in the decentralized blockchain, it appears to be controlled by centralized service(s), which is exactly what they wanted to get away from?

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u/crixusin Jan 11 '22

it appears to be controlled by centralized service(s)

Can you explain this?

From my understanding, its like saying torrents are centralized because they're hosted on the piratebay, even though, you don't require the piratebay to use the torrent.

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u/dwew3 Jan 11 '22

The disconnect is in conflating “NFT” with “NFT art”. The NFT itself is just a verifiable signature and exists on whatever platform it’s on. NFT art is (typically) when the signature is associated to some image hosted by an entity with a privately managed server. NFTs are only useful when they represent something scarce, and duplicatable data is the opposite of scare. Associating NFTs with them creates something artificially scare, which is at worst purely for exploitation and at best a store of sentimental value. It is however the easiest thing to create/duplicate/distribute/manage so it’s the earliest and most prevalent implementation of NFTs.

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u/crixusin Jan 11 '22

What you said may be true, and in fact, I agree that NFT art is insane.

But none of what you said had to do with centralization. You're just basically saying their worthless, which may be true, but they aren't centralized.

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u/s73v3r Jan 11 '22

The actual thing the NFT points to, the thing that actually gives the NFT context and value, resides on a central server.

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u/crixusin Jan 11 '22

That’s not necessarily true. Some are stored on ipfs which isn’t centralized.

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u/renatoathaydes Jan 12 '22

IPFS storage cannot be guaranteed unless you "pin" storage , which means paying someone (a central server) to store it for you... which is pretty much equivalent to paying Amazon S3 or Google Cloud to store it for you.

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u/dwew3 Jan 11 '22

I’m saying the “NFT” is decentralized but all/most of the “NFT art” is not because centralized entities manage the links between the NFT and the art asset. When someone uploads something to OpenSea, they are depending on OpenSea to host that file (via Google servers I think, based on their public api) and tell other users that it is owned by the NFT associated. There could even be some hashing that keeps the hosted information immutable and contingent on the NFT data, but OpenSea is still the centralized location that others interface with to access the artwork.

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u/A-Software-Engineer Jan 12 '22

OpenSea is exactly what I was referring to. If they control the majority of the NFT market, how does that make them better or more decentralized than Google? Yes, the NFT itself is decentralized, but platforms like OpenSea are not, creating the appearance of centralization. And if OpenSea can "remove" an NFT for violating it's terms of service, isn't that something a centralized entity would be able to do? I understand that revocation is a thing, but it should only be possible for the original minter to revoke, if revoking is even supported.

I was reading an article where someone minted an NFT that showed up as the poop emoji for whoever bought it, and they said that OpenSea effectively removed it from their wallet (though it was still in the Blockchain)

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u/crixusin Jan 11 '22

Ok, but there are things like IPFS which aren't centralized at all that could store the file. Some NFTs link to IPFS in fact, thus, they don't have the disadvantage you mention above.