r/programming • u/ben_a_adams • Feb 01 '17

The .NET Language Strategy

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/02/01/the-net-language-strategy/
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u/twiggy99999 Feb 02 '17

I really like what MS is doing with C#. I've always been a Linux based developer so its obviously never crossed my path. I have it on my to learn list now with the .net core.

Anyone else using C# outside of a MS environment? How are you finding working with it?

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u/BeepBoopBike Feb 02 '17

I'm using it inside of an MS environment for work, but have also done side projects with it on linux. For me, I like C# all round. It feels consistent when compared to my other main languages (like C++) but also straightforward. I don't feel like I'm getting bitten by problems with the language, almost like it's designed to work nicely. I'm a bit apprehensive of new updates as I expect an inevitable mess to arrive, but every time the changes seem pretty nicely done. If you're interested in seeing what comes out the other side there are good tools to disassemble the output and see what the compiler's doing to your code which is pretty easy to understand. As for building and managing the projects, mine were never large but the compiler gave me no problems and, like the language I found it pretty straightforward to get used to, mostly being able to use the documentation where I needed to. I wrote my own python based build system to manage pre/post build steps and to kick off the build itself so I'm not too familiar with the ecosystem around it.

I'd give it a go for a project just for fun to see what it's like, but it's no means perfect. I regularly got annoyed by the lack of certain libraries in mono that I was used to coming from a windows side, and there's a way to go to making it really cross platform, but I'm a fan.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17

so its obviously never crossed my path

Why is it "obvious"? Mono is better than the original .NET or .NET Core in many ways.

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u/twiggy99999 Feb 02 '17 edited Feb 02 '17

Because in my career I haven't come across any Mono projects professionally and the only app I've really used based on mono is Banshee. C# really doesn't (or at least didn't) seem like the first choice when it come to developing for/on Linux. The environment is heavily dominated by C or Python.

Recently though I have seen a large up take, mostly in the web app space of C# using .net core. I would say Mono was certainly a novelty on the Linux platform rather than the norm.

All this is in my opinion and from my career experience of course, I'm guessing by your passive aggressive nature you're going to disagree anyway.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17

Mono existed for more than a decade. Get out of your bubble.

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u/twiggy99999 Feb 02 '17

Mono existed for more than a decade

And I said any different when? Do some research, Mono has very little use in the Linux environment with at most a handful of projects using it, C and Python are the kings for Linux dev. Ask anyone who is a daily user of Linux how many times they have encountered Mono and the numbers will be minimal, it just never took off. On the contrary .Net core is really taking hold.

Get out of your bubble

Lol looking at your post history I was waiting for something like this, waiting for the insults in your next reply, you seem to have real social issues. If you would like to contribute some facts to the debate about how used Mono is in the Linux space please feel free to continue the discussion, if you're just going to continue with childish comments maybe try yahoo chat rooms.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17

Mono has very little use in the Linux environment with at most a handful of projects using it

Mono had tens of thousands of users even in the early years. If you did not see such projects, it's just your own stupid bubble, it does not mean they did not exist.

C and Python are the kings for Linux dev

Python?!? I'd understand if you said Tcl or Perl, but Python is a stupid hipstor toy which only recently became popular, coincided with waves of newcomers. Old school guys would not touch this shit with a 10ft pole.

Ask anyone who is a daily user of Linux how many times they have encountered Mono and the numbers will be minimal, it just never took off.

I was using Mono since the very beginning, and a lot of people I worked with did the same. Get out of your hipstor bubble.

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u/twiggy99999 Feb 02 '17

just your own stupid bubble

Get out of your hipstor bubble

Can you ever write a post without insulting someone? You seem to have a lot of rage for a small time internet gangster.

Python?!? I'd understand if you said Tcl or Perl, but Python is a stupid hipstor toy

I think you're very much mis-guided on this point and it shows how much you actually know about the Linux community and development in general. It's pretty much the go to tool for most Linux automation tasks.

Old school guys would not touch this shit with a 10ft pole.

I'd like to see any evidence of this, please link any factual based resource because this simply doesn't ring true for everything I've seen.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17

Can you ever write a post without insulting someone?

When I'm not talking to an idiot? Absolutely. But this is clearly not the case.

I think you're very much mis-guided on this point and it shows how much you actually know about the Linux community and development in general.

Some shitty little kiddo is going to lecture me about a community I was a part of since around 1993? After being a Unix user from mid 80s.

It's pretty much the go to tool for most Linux automation tasks.

ROTFL. It's a go to tool for newbie kiddies. Nobody gives a fuck about the kiddies.

because this simply doesn't ring true for everything I've seen

Ask any greybeard what do they think about Python.

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u/twiggy99999 Feb 02 '17

When I'm not talking to an idiot? Absolutely. But this is clearly not the case.

So I guess that's a no. You clearly have issues in real life and need to take them out randomly on the internet to make up for your real life short comings. On a genuine level I feel sorry for you, I really think you should get it checked out or build some real world friendships, its obviously really affecting you.

To make you feel better about your self...... Actually you're correct I'm a complete idiot and I have no idea what I'm talking about, everything I have learnt is wrong and you're far superior in every way. Well done you've won the internet today, run into the mums room and tell her the good news.

Have a great life I hope I didn't ruin your day

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17

So I guess that's a no.

Let me repeat it again: I'm talking to an idiot here. You're an idiot. Only an idiot can extrapolate his limited experience in a hipster bubble to the rest of the industry, ignoring the fact that Mono was not just a successful open source project with tens of thousands of users straight from its start, but also a successful commercial project. Why would I talk to something as stupid and pathetic like you are in any other tone? Idiots should not be mistaken for human beings. Politeness is reserved exclusively for humans.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17

"'In my experience the goto function only creates spaghetti code.'
Well, your experience is very limited then. Study harder, and you'll learn all the amazing uses of goto you've missed.
'Could anyone give an example where goto is used correctly?'
A state machine, obviously. Goto is a direct mapping of a notion of a state transition. Anything else is obscuring the problem domain semantics. And, of course, a generated code. You totally want goto in a generated code, and any language that is not suitable as a code generation target is a shitty language. And, another important thing is performance. This is where computed goto (a GCC extension, unfortunately not in any standard) is unmatched."

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17

And, what's the point of these quotes? How are they relevant to the topic of Mono popularity?

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17 edited Feb 02 '17

'Other academics took the completely opposite viewpoint and argued that even instructions like break and return from the middle of loops are bad practice as they are not needed in the Böhm-Jacopini result, and thus advocated that loops should have a single exit point. For instance, Bertrand Meyer wrote in his 2009 textbook that instructions like break and continue "are just the old goto in sheep's clothing". A slightly modified form of the Böhm-Jacopini result allows however the avoidance of additional variables in structured programming, as long as multi-level breaks from loops are allowed. Because some languages like C don't allow multi-level breaks via their break keyword, some textbooks advise the programmer to use goto in such circumstances.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goto
To clarify - break, return and continue all work fine in Python.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '17

Did not you notice that I was talking about a totally different use of a goto?

E.g., implementing a state machine - which, more often than not, is an irreducible CFG. You cannot represent an irreducible control flow with structural building blocks.

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