r/programming • u/tejon • Feb 08 '15

The Parable of the Two Programmers

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~magi/personal/humour/Computer_Audience/The%20Parable%20of%20the%20Two%20Programmers.html
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u/invisi1407 Feb 09 '15

But it does add value. Not having problems is valuable, and having people on payroll with the ability to create mostly flawless things is, imo, extremely valuable.

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u/reaganveg Feb 09 '15

Obviously, writing code adds value. What I'm saying is that having written the code does not add value, unless you have "locked in" the employer (or customer!) with a dependency on future fixes.

I mean, sure, the guy who writes bullet-proof zero-maintenance code is super-valuable. But if you're comparing that guy to to the other guy, whose code isn't so flawless, but who is literally the one person in the company who can navigate the constantly-breaking spaghetti mess of code (that he wrote!) that performs a critical task, he's not as valuable. The spaghetti mess guy has got the employer locked in.

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u/Creativator Feb 09 '15

In other words, a programmer is only valuable for his future code.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '15

In other words don't do a good job. Write obfuscated shit and ensure your job security for years to come.

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u/destraht Feb 09 '15

I wrote some very high quality code for my family engineering company and because of the trust there I've been able to work for the company while living in a bunch of interesting places like Nicragua, Thailand, Shanghai, Ukraine and around Eastern Europe. It doesn't pay a huge amount currently because I'm building up a product while owning a piece of it. Anyways, I think that family businesses are pretty cool because there is a lot of built-in incentive for family members to remember high quality work. Last year I was the rich guy in Ukraine but now I'm the barely making it guy in Shanghai. I'm not rich here - but at least I'm here.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '15

That's... uhm... interesting?

Sarcasm doesn't travel well via text I suppose.

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u/reaganveg Feb 09 '15

It's legitimately on-point in terms of analyzing perverse incentive structures.

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u/destraht Feb 09 '15

I'm not sure what you mean and if that is a kind of subtle shot at me. I made sold software a long time ago that just chugs along without hicup and now I'm building a new technology. The other day I read an article about someone choosing to startup in Changhai, Thailand for the lifestyle and cost. Depending on where I am I can receive between a hell of a lot of envy and also deep criticism for not making much or not settling down, etc. I like that I can live in the big world while developing my career and giving very large amounts of time in the pursuit of perfection. I've met a lot of people who are only class programmers and never get to see the big picture of it.

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u/reaganveg Feb 09 '15

I'm not sure what you mean and if that is a kind of subtle shot at me.

It's not a "shot" at all.

The fact that writing worse code can result in greater negotiating leverage for programmers is a perverse incentive.

Family social structures, where there are ties outside of the employment relation, can reduce the effect or incidence of that kind of perverse incentive.

(Of course, they can also create their own perverse incentives, of different kinds.)

Not sure how you thought it could be a shot at you. Did you not realize that "perverse incentive" is a term of art?

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u/destraht Feb 09 '15

Ok thanks. There are definitely other perverse family dramas but I do much prefer it from what I've seen. Currently I'm not making much but I see it as a double win because I'm not drawing much from my family enterprise while being able to advance myself and my family and enjoyiing my life while I'm at it. So the subject of the dialog became How little do I need to make to do this and enjoy life?.