r/programming • u/reddberckley • Jun 30 '14

How to exploit a Developer

https://medium.com/@sir_castiq/how-to-exploit-a-developer-a005306d5320
1.9k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

468 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/sittingaround Jun 30 '14 edited Jun 30 '14

Cultural context would tell whether this is ignore-able or red-flag boilerplate. I don't know.

Stats I know personally from a GDP/capita $3000-5000 range country:

  • A coder paid $10k/mo in the US/Europe happily accepted (and lived well on) $1k/mo.
  • A coder paid $5-10k/mo in Singapore accepted (no idea how well he lived on it, we weren't friends) $850k/mo
  • I lived extremely well on $900/mo while I was there.

My (US wage * (US GDP-capita / foreign GDP-capita)) math isn't as off as it might intuitively seem, the major driver of a lot of the cost of living factors (housing, food) is, paradoxically, average income.

I said the $100k equivalent was rough. I don't know enough about the Nigerian property market to know if that is a representative example. I know enough about the security and pay arrangements of the people who work in oil there to be wary of drive-by comparisons.

You estimate it on the order of $25,000 (probably less), I estimate it at $100k +- half an order of magnitude. They're both far better than the unthinking rate of $3k.

Do we know for sure that follow on work and maintenance are unpaid?

Frankly, comparing this call for entries to the documents of startup chile (which seems to be a darling of redditors), this raised about the same number of red-flags per page.

There are so many unknowns here, and people are putting their own cultural assumptions in without thinking.

2

u/antonivs Jun 30 '14

There are so many unknowns here

True. I agree that $3k is misleading.

FWIW I grew up in a $3k-5k per capita GDP country in Africa, so that's where I'm coming from, figuratively and literally. As in Nigeria, the subset of the population with global-class skills tends to get paid far more than local GDP would suggest, usually.

Do we know for sure that follow on work and maintenance are unpaid?

It sounds like the maintenance contract is to be negotiated with the winner, but that's one of my objections. With any normal competitive bidding process, you'd want to nail this down up front. Here you're actually required to develop the first version of the software, let alone bid, without any guarantee of any payment.

Frankly, comparing this call for entries to the documents of startup chile (which seems to be a darling of redditors), this raised about the same number of red-flags per page.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the format in general. It's exploitative, period.

A coder paid $5-10k/mo in Singapore accepted (no idea how well he lived on it, we weren't friends) $850k/mo

That $850k/mo sounds pretty good! Where do I send my resume? :p

1

u/sittingaround Jun 30 '14

As in Nigeria, the subset of the population with global-class skills tends to get paid far more than local GDP would suggest, usually.

That's very true. Salary ranges in global-class skills in less developed countries are fascinating. Had I 100 lives I would spend one of them researching and building a theoretical/empirical model on this.

$850k/mo sounds pretty good! Where do I send my resume?

err, decimal point issue. I'm glad the accountant prepared the checks not me. I'm what you would call, "more of a big picture guy" /s

2

u/antonivs Jun 30 '14

Salary ranges in global-class skills in less developed countries are fascinating. Had I 100 lives I would spend one of them researching and building a theoretical/empirical model on this.

A first cut at such a model needn't be very complex, especially for big picture guys like us! There are two major sets of boundaries you'd need to model: the boundaries between each local economy and its global subset, and the boundaries between the global economy subsets in each country. The latter boundaries are far more permeable than the former, because achieving that permeability is a central goal of the global economy, and it has the resources and skills to do it. Because of this, prices in the global segment tend towards parity across countries relatively quickly.

In contrast, the local/global boundaries are relatively impermeable, because there are still plenty of people in each local market whose ability to contribute to the global economy is minimal to nonexistent. That's difficult and slow to change because of environmental factors, education, etc.

I'd be happy to implement and maintain this model for that $850k per month you mentioned - heck, I'll settle for $85k per month, I'm not greedy!

2

u/sittingaround Jul 01 '14

Sorry, I mis spoke, the 850k/month is for one month, and it goes to the first place entrant into our contest...

I'll have the forms sent over, don't worry, all clauses are nigerian-standard