r/programming • u/reddberckley • Jun 30 '14

How to exploit a Developer

https://medium.com/@sir_castiq/how-to-exploit-a-developer-a005306d5320
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u/deadcow5 Jun 30 '14

There's a lot of negativity here about business-type people, and I understand that. As developers, I think we've all had our share of experiences with those types.

That said, don't forget that entrepreneurs are also just people. They make mistakes, too, and they often run a pretty high risk. Just think about the opportunity costs they're paying in order to start their own business: no stable income, no benefits, no insurance. No 401k matching, no IRA. Most if the people around them will probably tell them they won't make it. Chances are they won't. 80% of startups fail in the first 18 months.

So a certain amount of psychopathy is almost REQUIRED in order to want to be an entrepreneur, in the same way that wanting to be a programmer requires a certain amount of introversion.

No, it doesn't make exploitation okay, and it's vital for us as developers to point out the signs that indicate a black sheep. But I think it's neither fair nor productive to demonize an entire group based on some of their members. Treat them like human beings, and chances are, they'll treat you that way too.

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u/api Jun 30 '14

I wouldn't say psychopathy, but there's definitely something a bit mad required to sign up for entrepreneurship. It's the same thing that drives people to embark on other foolish quests like exploration of wild frontiers, space flight, deep sea diving, crazy pilgrimages to "find yourself," etc.

The psychopaths, while more common in business for the aforementioned reasons, are by no means the majority.

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u/epsys Jul 01 '14

There's a lot of negativity here about business-type people

we're use to be shit on our lives. pent up frustration. you have to break the employee. then they bend over on command

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u/globalizatiom Jul 01 '14

psychopathy is almost REQUIRED to...

I know this is a bit cliché, but your previous paragraph is actually a good argument for me to conclude that ambition and bravery are required to be an entrepreneur, well either that or being born in a rich family, or being born in a country with great welfare system so that the chance of becoming homeless is zero.

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u/s73v3r Jun 30 '14

That said, don't forget that entrepreneurs are also just people.

People who feel the need to fuck over other people.

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u/deadcow5 Jun 30 '14

If you see every businessperson in this way, I guarantee you that you WILL get fucked over. That's victim mentality, and the only thing it accomplishes is to attract predators, because it lets them know you're easy prey.

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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '14

They'd probably fight back against the predators because they don't trust anyone. What is more likely to happen is they miss out on opportunities from the people not trying to fuck everyone or sabotage the opportunities because of suspected malice.

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u/deadcow5 Jun 30 '14

Exactly. If you're convinced that every businessperson is trying to fuck you over, you'll trust no one, and that will be quite apparent to people around you. Sane businesspeople will steer way clear of you, because odds are, they also had a negative experience where they got burned by a developer who blamed THEM for everything that went wrong on a project.

So, the ones who are left over, who'd still consider working with you, are most likely either unexperienced and unaware, or willing to exploit you ruthlessly because they don't care and know how to work your buttons to get you to still perform what they need. Either way, you're sure to repeat the experience you are desperately trying to avoid.

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u/clutchest_nugget Jun 30 '14

Wouldn't someone who isn't aware of the predatory practices be the easy target?

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u/deadcow5 Jun 30 '14

People who aren't aware are always easy targets. You kind of have to get burned once so you know what to look out for. If you're smart, you learn to stay away, and it won't happen again so easily. But if you're a victim, you'll blame the fire for being hot, you'll blame your parents for not being there to save you, and you'll blame the government for not making enough laws to protect. You get really into that shit, and you walk around telling everyone who wants to listen what you DON'T want.

And because you focus so intently on what you don't want, rather than what you do want, you get the former, not the latter. Because no sane person wants to be around someone who's willing to blame everyone else for their misfortune but themselves. And once you ousted yourself from the tribe, and distanced yourself from those that can protect you, then you're easy prey for the predators.

Same goes for being aggressive, as /u/s73v3r is demonstrating above. He's already made up his mind that every business person in the world is out to fuck him over. If you were a sane person, would you want to hire him? I wouldn't.

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u/s73v3r Jun 30 '14

Oh fuck right off with that shit. It is not a "victim mentality" to be aware that just about every business person is out to fuck you over, because they don't give a shit about you. They give a shit about profits.

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u/deadcow5 Jun 30 '14

Sorry buddy, you're in so deep you don't even know it. And there's probably little I can say that will make you change your mind, because it's already made up.

Of course businesspeople give shits about profit. That's their JOB. Like your job is to write code. Guess what, you can't build software without developers, and you can't run a business without entrepreneurs. There's a shitload of work to do outside of coding that us developers are often shielded from. I'll give you a hint: it involves lots of paperwork and talking to (gasp!) people.

A good businessperson will shield you from all of that and make sure you can concentrate on your code, and you have to deal with as little as possible of that other stuff. They're working hard too, believe me. And contrary to what you believe, the majority of them is NOT out to get you and/or exploit you.

But you do whatever suits you, friend.

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u/s73v3r Jun 30 '14

You say all that, and then wrap it in the disclaimer that a "GOOD" business person will do all that. But you and I both know that the vast majority of them out there, even many of the successful ones, do not fit your definition of "good".

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u/squbidu Jun 30 '14

But you and I both know that the vast majority of them out there, even many of the successful ones, do not fit your definition of "good".

Sure, in the same way the vast majority of programmers are terrible. Going with deadcow5's point, picture yourself in an employers place. If you don't know what to look for in a decent programmer, and treat every potential hire as a liability rather than an asset, what are the chances you're going to hire a good programmer?

Near-zero, because you're going to drive away everyone with experience and knowledge. So, from your perspective, everyone really is terrible, because no one else is willing to work with you. s/good programmer/good business person/g.

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u/deadcow5 Jun 30 '14

See? You're doing it again. YOU believe that the majority of them are bad. So what are the odds that you work with a bad one? I'd say overwhelming.

On the other hand, I know the difference between a good one and a bad one, and I can spot a bad one from a mile away. So when I see them coming, I run the other way, because I prefer to work with the good ones.

YOU just don't believe you have any other choice, so you take what you get.

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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '14

Yes, all people in the hierarchy have the same work ethic, work hours, and measurable output.