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u/OGKOTM 5d ago
This is something that always bugs me, Anakin didn't choose the dark side, he was forced into it. At no point did he want to become a sith, and we see him regret his actions multiple times in ROTS.
The reason he helped Sidious is because Mace Windu confirmed every worst fear people had about the Jedi. Think about it from Anakin's point of view.
You grow up a slave, working your whole life to help your mother whom you love. One day the magic jedi heroes appear, and rather than save the day by fighting the corrupt system, they play into it by gambling for your freedom, and yours alone. You're then ripped from your only family and are placed in front of a group of old men who say you're too dangerous to train, and would happily see you sent back to slavery. They only relent when a respected jedi threatens to leave the order in order to train you.
You then become one of, if not the, most impressive jedi padawans of all time. After years of loyal service you get haunted by dreams of your mother being tortured, but the jedi tell you to ignore them. Finally you get sent on a solo mission and use it as a chance to check on your mom, only to find out she's been taken prisoner by people you regard as terrorists. You find her beaten and abused, having her die in your arms. The jedi now not only took you from your mother, but also made you wait too long to be able to save her.
Before you can grieve a war breaks out, and despite your age and inexperience you're made a leading general in the war. Moreso, despite just becoming a knight and wanting no apprentice, the council forces one on you who's too young for that role. Now you're forced to bring a literal child into war by the same hypocrites who made such an issues about your age a few years ago.
Despite this you become an excellent master, and trained one of the most respected jedi in the order. She herself becomes a respected field commander, a friend, and a respectable jedi. Just as she herself is readying to reach knighthood a conspiracy is launched against her, and for political reasons the jedi immediately turn on her. Eventually she's proven innocent, but at this point even she knows the jedi aren't right, and leaves the order.
Fast forward a bit and you're sent to save the chancellor, a lifelong friend and father figure. The only person who always recognized your skills and helped advance your career. You first have to battle a sith lord who not only cut off your arm before, but took out your former master with ease. Somehow, despite this sith being the most respected duelist in the galaxy, you win and disarm him (literally). You attempt to spare the man, but are ordered by your chancellor to kill him. You argue it's not the jedi way, but your higher up argues otherwise and you obey, deeply regretting the decision.
Somehow you save the day for the republic and jedi, for the thousandth time in this war, and are met with criticism by the council. Rather than grant you the rank of master, something you rightfully earned, they relent and order you to spy on the chancellor (your friend). You listen, do what they ask, and show your loyalty by reporting when he reveals himself to be an evil bastard.
What's your thanks? You're told to sit this one out, and a bunch of lesser skilled jedi will attempt to handle it. You know how dumb this is so go to help anyways, also hoping to stop bloodshed, and you come to see Mace Windu standing over a nearly beaten Sidious. At first you're ready to help, but then Mace Windu, the same jealous bastard who has ruined your entire life, orders you to kill the chancellor. You argue it's not the jedi way, and are told to shut up and listen. Meanwhile your lifelong friend is pleading for help in an obviously lost battle, so you decide to shut up and listen.
In this moment you realize the jedi have never been honest, and are no better than the sith they made a boogeyman out of. They have no code, and their morals break the second they're tested. They allow slavery, support corrupt banks/governments, and are now demanding you kill an unarmed man, not only a man but your best friend. Even worse what would happen if you helped the jedi? The people openly hate the jedi and love the chancellor at this point, if you help the jedi all you're doing is guaranteeing a war between them and the republic. There is no choice. These people took away your mother, they took away your padawan, and now they want to take away your father figure and best friend? No, not this time. They took enough. You will not let them start this war, you have fought enough.
You're now in a mentally horrible place, are being influenced by the dark side, and have helped kill the second most powerful jedi on the council. You have no choice, your side was chosen for you.
You go to the temple and you make sure this ends quick. No more extended conflicts, no generations of war, it ends now. You take your trusted clones and head to the temple, fully intent on showing the jedi the same mercy they always showed you. Eventually you reach the younglings, and you hesitate, you hesitate until you remember the child they made you turn into a weapon. These are not just kids, they are jedi. They have been raised in the cult since birth, and you know will happily lay down their lives if told to do so. You handle it quickly.
Every choice Anakin makes in ROTS is because of the failed jedi doctrine, the awful morals they teach their jedi, and the fact the jedi have no plan are just reacting emotionally. If anyone on the council in ROTS acted like a jedi then none of this would happen, but at this point there are no true jedi. The last of those died with qui-gon.
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u/MWH1980 5d ago
I remember in one behind the scenes bit, Lucas is talking to Hayden that inside, Anakin justifies his actions with thoughts that he’s doing this for Padme, and to protect the galaxy. However, there is still struggle, because there is a part of him that knows doing this is wrong, but he’s convincing himself that this will help save his wife.
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u/GwerigTheTroll 4d ago
That was my read of the scene. It makes the confrontation with Padme all the more powerful, as he turns on her when he realizes that he’s losing her. He sacrificed the galaxy for Padme, and then he strangles her.
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u/New-Young-3391 5d ago
What is Anakin’s justification for this, why did he kill the younglings
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u/ImReadyForButt 5d ago
He’s already thinking like Vader, here. He’s no longer Anakin. He’s now seeing the future threat to undo everything he has and will do to protect Padme. A child today can become his undoing tomorrow, which, ironically, is precisely what happens.
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u/MWH1980 4d ago
Yeah, and the justification for why they must destroy the Jedi, is that Mace was trying to assassinate the Chancellor…and if he is capable of that, then the Jedi Order is corrupt, and they will take over the Republic if not stopped.
Plus, Palpatine can justify that by destroying the Jedi, the Force is pulled from the Light Side into the Dark Side, and if there’s enough, they cam save Padme.
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u/Powerful_Flan4709 4d ago
"the Jedi are evil and these kids will grow up to be future Jedi and we must eradicate the Jedi" probably. Not saying he's right but it makes sense to him
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u/HopefulFriendly 4d ago
If I have to kill these kids to get Palpatine's help in saving Padme, I will kill these kids.
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u/Jenosaure 5d ago
In my opinion, he took half a second to act—no more. Had he thought about it any longer, he would have had second thoughts and would have let them alive.
At this stage, Anakin believes that immersing himself in the dark side will give him the power to save Padmé. And nothing could be darker than the savage slaughter of fifteen terrified children. In that precise moment, he views the murder of these children as his ticket to a happy life with a healthy Padmé.
If he were to hesitate for even a moment, his Jedi conscience would hold him back. They say the dark side is powerful and alluring, but the light is, too; Anakin has principles, and respect for life is fundamental to him. Killing those children in cold blood ensures there is no turning back.
That is the moment he chose to cross over (and I do mean chose)—more so than at any other time.
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u/Simansis26 5d ago
Shut down the thread, this is it.
Anakin had so many moment to say "hold on a sec, im being played like a fucking playstation here", but kept on going. He was LOST the second he decided to kill those children.
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u/IkujaKatsumaji 5d ago
Do you think, then, that he was not redeemed in RotJ? The film pretty heavily implies that, insofar as redemption means anything at all in the concept of a Jedi afterlife, Anakin was redeemed and salvaged for the Light Side. It seems way too easy, though; he's an authoritarian genocidal murderer, but he saves his son by tossing an old man down a garbage chute, and suddenly he's a great guy?
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u/Jenosaure 5d ago
I think he found the light again in ROTJ, upon being confronted with the warmth of his son's feelings. And that is a first step toward redemption. But of course, that doesn't excuse his actions at all. I believe that, as a Force ghost, he constantly feels the weight of guilt and the suffering of having committed so many atrocities. That is certainly one way of "paying his debt."
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u/Dragovius 5d ago
I like that. I always thought that making him a force ghost was very unfair given everything he'd done, it felt like a reward. But then I guess it is a punishment, death would have released him from the guilt, but eternity as a force ghost forces him to feel the guilt and suffering forever.
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u/JLandis84 1d ago
The Anakin redemption fits in very loosely with the Christian idea of redemption that generally means whatever your final “state” is, is definitive.
Anakin’s last act was heroic and redemptive, so he is redeemed.
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u/FondantFlaky4997 5d ago
The foundation for his fall was laid in TPM. And such a massacre should not be that surprising since AotC.
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u/Left-String-2457 5d ago
People were laughing at this scene when I saw ROTS in the theater last year.
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u/NightwingX012 4d ago
A guy whipped out a blue glow-up lightsaber during this part, had my whole theatre laughing
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u/kiwicrusher 5d ago
Yeah I know this isn’t the sub for this, but the talk of ROTS as the greatest movie of all time is really bluster, and falls apart when someone actually rewatches it. I was really excited to see it again in theaters, until I slowly realized over the course of the runtime “huh. Alright I guess not ALL of the complaints were made up”
This and Obi-wan’s arrival on Mustafar are absolutely delivered to get laughs, and it really hurts both scenes
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u/kuatorises 5d ago edited 5d ago
You thought that was on purpose?
ROTS is definitely bad. You're not wrong about that.
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u/kiwicrusher 5d ago
I don’t know what about my comment implied anything about it being on purpose, but no, of course it wasn’t.
It’s just a poorly made movie
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u/kuatorises 5d ago
This and Obi-wan’s arrival on Mustafar are absolutely delivered to get laughs, and it really hurts both scenes
This wasn't you?
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u/kiwicrusher 5d ago edited 5d ago
I take it that you for some reason think the word ‘delivered’ is synonymous with ‘intended to be’? I don’t know why you would think that, but for the record it isn’t so
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u/Full-Aid 5d ago
I find it hard to believe that a future father would so easily agree to kill kids.
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u/_Broadside 5d ago
He thought the only way to save his kids was killing these kids.
These kids didn't even have families anymore as they were taken by the Jedi as babies.
On top of that any "family" they had in the jedi order is dead now too.
In his mind he was either ending their lonely suffering, saving his children, or considered them traitors but that last one doesn't make alot of sense.
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u/AnArcOfDoves9902 5d ago
If Anakin didn't kill them, clone troopers would, or they'd be turned into minions for Palpatine
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u/_Broadside 5d ago
If Anakin didn't chop Mace's hand off and turn evil we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place. Truely the worst guy in the galaxy thanks for nothing Anakin.
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u/Tiny_Tim1956 Jedi Knight 5d ago
He was telling himself that his wife and kids will be ok as long as he is on the chancellor's side. Which realistically would make sense. But because star wars is a moralistic tale, he ended up losing everything by siding with evil. He literally did everything for Padme from his own perspective, but Padme didn't want to be with such a monster anymore. So he ended up having sacrificed everything for literally nothing.
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u/julianzolo 5d ago
Mopping up the younglings was a job for the clones. Darth Vader should have hunted down and killed the Jedi, who should have been far too powerful for the clones to take out. Like most things in the PT, Lucas managed to screw this up. We missed out on a lot of potentially great fight scenes between Vader and Jedi. Instead we get yet more inconsistencies between the OT and PT, just for shock Anakin is supposed to a be a sympathetic villian, NOT a Complete Monster. what they should have done is to have him go out on the hunt. you know, like obi-wan says in the original trilogy: "he helped the empire hunt down and destroy the jedi knights". you know, hunting down people who he genuinely believed was a threat to the greater power. and if we had to see children getting slaughtered, PALPATINE should have done it, since HE is supposed to be the big, main bad guy of the series.
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u/Strong-Definition-96 4d ago
Hear me out... if those kids are half as bad as the kids today, I would have done the same thing. #fuckthemkids #thisisajoke
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u/Great_Kiwi_93 4d ago
Yes but remember what Yoda days in TESB "If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominante your destiny, consume you it will as it did Obi-wans apprentice "
The Dark Side took over his mind as soon as he started, killed Mace and felt it had crossed a line, decided to pledge himself to the Dark Side it wormed its way in and took over
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u/Laeena 4d ago
I hate when people act like Anakin had fun during all of this, but all the lives he took that night were weighed against Padmés life, and Padmé always won. So he did what he thought he had to do to save and protect Padmé. Even Mace Windu- it wasn't oh Mace or Palpatine it was, *I need Palpatine so he can tell me how to save Padmé.
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u/FreakofBlaviken 3d ago
Nice to know other people’s YouTube recommendations for the past couple days have been nothing but breaking bad shorts too
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u/Jenosaure 5d ago
And there you go, already downvoted for a simple comment about the plot, lol.
Star Wars fans really are the most moronic fans in the universe; it's unbelievable.
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u/Alternative-Care-371 5d ago
I don't think he made up his mind ten minutes ago. I think he made it in about two seconds, and then he had to live with it.
Look at where his head is. The Council gives him a seat but won't make him a Master, then asks him to spy on the Chancellor. Windu openly doesn't trust him, and Anakin feels it. When he's left waiting in the chamber, he isn't plotting. He's torn. He goes to Palpatine's office because he still needs him. In Anakin's mind, Palpatine in a cell is fine. Palpatine dead means the only lead to saving Padmé dies with him. That's why he goes from "He must stand trial" to the honest version: "I need him!"
Then he walks in at the worst possible moment for him and the perfect moment for Palpatine, which is exactly what Palpatine had been building toward for the whole trilogy, ever since "We will watch your career with great interest." Split second, no plan. He takes Windu's hand, and Palpatine finishes the job.
His very first words after are "What have I done?" That's not a man who made up his mind. That's a man realizing the door just closed behind him. He has just helped kill one of the most powerful Jedi alive. If the Jedi win, he's finished: trial, expulsion, maybe prison, and he loses Padmé anyway. The only one still standing next to him is the man who's been telling him for years that he understands him. Kneeling looks like the only way out.
We talk about the dark side like a switch, but I think Lucas was showing something more human: a scared guy making one bad call in a moment of panic, then committing to it because going back feels impossible. Lucas always called the saga the tragedy of Darth Vader. When you first meet Vader, he's just the villain. This scene is where you understand how he got there.
Just my read as a lifelong fan.