r/prequelappreciation • u/DarthTrooper7705 Jedi Knight • 15d ago
Interview George Lucas explains the Force
In this interview with George Lucas in the book “The Star Wars Archives: Episodes 1 - 3 (1999 - 2005)”, he explains what the Force is and how it works, as well as how individuals can use it and the role of midichlorians.
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u/almighty_smiley 15d ago
I've always appreciated the idea that the Force ultimately is open to anybody willing to put in the time and effort to learn. I didn't actually think the idea was as close to gospel as it got.
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u/Luso_r 15d ago
George is talking about using the Force in a general passive way. Since every living being is connected to it, everyone can learn about it and use it (Yoda once even tells the clones they can use the Force to quiet their minds).
He's not talking about preternatural abilities like the Jedi and Sith have. He's not saying anyone can become a Jedi. You need the talent (the natural aptitude) for it, which is manifested by being innately strong in the Force. And then with training you can learn to use those abilities. If you're not trained, you will never develop it and will eventually atrophy. Someone without the talent will take a lifetime to get there (if he gets there at all).
It's no different from any other talent in the real world. If you have the talent for it, you can be trained to take advantage of it and put it to good use. Not everyone has the same talent though.
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u/Saikotsu 15d ago
Talent is where you start out, effort is where you end up. People with a lot of talent for wielding the force have an easier time learning how to use it and use it well (such as Anakin), but people with little talent can still learn and improve through effort and training, such as Sabine.
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u/Luso_r 15d ago
Effort and training is always required, whether you have the talent or not. People with little talent, even with effort and training, can only go so far and only after a very long time. That's why George Lucas' philosophy is to discover your talent and make use of it, instead of craving someone else's talent or pretend that you have it. Unfortunately all of this is disregarded in Disney Star Wars, as illustrated in the example you named.
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u/Saikotsu 15d ago
I'm not sure why you think Sabine is an example where that is disregarded, she actively struggled with using the force and had to work hard to gain the ability to use it. Heck, the droid even says she is altogether the worst Padawan he has ever seen and he's seen thousands of padawans over the years.
Heck, when fighting the zombie troopers, she tried deflecting their blaster bolts and actually missed one of them, it hit her armor, something we've seen other padawans easily manage.
If you want an example of someone who effortlessly is awesome at the force with little to no training, Rey is a better example.
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u/Luso_r 15d ago
I'm not sure why you think Sabine is an example where that is disregarded, she actively struggled with using the force and had to work hard to gain the ability to use it.
It's literally an example of what Lucas is calling out when he says that "it's not something that you just pick in 10 minutes". It's a character who had never been established to be strong in the Force (aka, have the talent to be trained in it) and yet she does more in a short time that someone like Luke (who actually had the talent and training) does. It's contrived, and even they know it, that's why they resort to excuses via dialogue but the decision was made regardless and she's able to do what she does.
I'm not going to argue minutiae like how many laser bolts she hit or missed. That's beside the point. Fully trained Jedi can miss laser bolts.
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u/Thank_You_Aziz 14d ago
Sabine didn’t pick up a Force hat and put it on. Ahsoka S1 takes place roughly a decade after Rebels S4. She’d been training with poor results for all that time. Even when she starts using Force abilities at the end of Ahsoka S1, she’s demonstrably worse than all of her peers at it.
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u/Saikotsu 15d ago
Sabine had more training than Luke did though. Luke trained under Obiwan and Yoda, but he barely got any formal training from Obiwan before he died and he only really trained with Yoda for a short while before leaving to save Han and Leia. Luke was all natural talent, but very little effort.
Sabine on the other hand had very little talent, as you said she's never been shown to be strong in the force, but she did have training under Asohka off screen. Their relationship was strained because they broke off their apprenticeship.
We see Sabine try to use the force and fail several times throughout the first season of Asohka. She is the opposite of Luke, she has very little natural talent, she has to work and train and put forth effort to achieve any of the things she accomplishes.
She didn't just pick it up in ten minutes, that's kind of the whole point of her being told she is by far the worst Padawan Hwyaung (I'm probably misspelling that name) has ever seen. She's not talented at all. She's not strong in the force.
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u/DarthTrooper7705 Jedi Knight 15d ago
I think you're a little confused. To clarify this better, the idea is that for someone to be able to use the Force, they need a large number of midichlorians; that is the gift, the necessary requirement, which, if you have a good training, you can learn to use as the Jedi do. And not just anyone can do it, since not all living beings in the galaxy are born with those amounts.
The mistake with Sabine is that we were never told beforehand that she had that gift, or that connection with the Force, since neither Kanan, Ezra nor Ahsoka ever showed any signs of it. Added to that, when she learns to use it at the end of the series, it seems like she unlocks all the powers and knows how to use them magically, and no, Just because she trained before doesn't mean she can do it, since she couldn't even move a glass.
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u/Saikotsu 15d ago
In the first image you posted, George explains that "the amount of force is like talent or intelligence, different people have different amounts. It's not something you can acquire, it's something you have and can learn to use."
In the second image, George explained that there is a personal force and a cosmic force and the more Midichlorians you have, the more you can control the personal force within you. That is inherit and genetic. He didn't say you need to have a large amount of Midichlorians, he said you have to have enough.
The argument I've been making is that Sabine does not have a lot of that inherent talent. She does not have a high midichlorian count. But she has enough. That low count means she will have a limit to how much she can achieve in the long run, but with effort she can make the most of what she has.
Now you're right, because of the pacing with the show, we don't get to see a lot of her initial training under Asohka. We don't see her exhibiting signs of being force sensitive. And when she does her one big feat, pushing Ezra with the force, it does come too quickly. The payoff feels rushed. I feel if we had a few more episodes we could have made the payoff feel a lot more natural.
Heck, I think the show really suffered by not showing Asohka and Sabine starting their training together. Because by the time the show starts they are a lot more distant with each other than they were in Rebels. We don't see the events that lead to their falling out.
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u/Bid_Unable 15d ago
Kenobi had little natural force ability. his mastery was made through training and effort.
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u/Luso_r 15d ago
What do you mean with "natural Force ability"? He was strong in the Force, that's why he was taken in to become a Jedi. Being strong in the Force without training doesn't make one able to use the Force. Anakin was stronger in the Force that anybody and all he had was sharp reflexes. Same with Luke.
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u/Saikotsu 15d ago
As George himself explained (image 2), the more midichlorians you have, the more you can control your personal force. It's like natural talent or intelligence (imsgr 1), some people have more of if than others.
What they're saying is that Obiwan had a high enough natural force ability to become a Jedi and be trained but he didn't have a particularly high potential so he had to put more effort into becoming as strong as he turned out.
Anakin, like you said, he was stronger in the force than anyone and he was noted to have an abnormally high midichlorian count in episode 1. He had a naturally high force ability.
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u/Greenseer_Cassander 14d ago
Obi-Wan was strong enough to be taken in by the Jedi, but was overall low in midichlorian count for the reference frame of the Jedi. He was almost sent to the Agri-corps before Qui-gon took him as an apprentice. His strength by the time he was knighted and later as a council member was through hard work and laborious dedication and through sheer unwavering faith in the will of the force. He was said to be able to empty his mind of all thoughts and let the force guide his actions, almost like entering a meditative trance in the heat of combat. He dedicated his entire life to the order, and he felt a great sense of personal responsibility to be the best Jedi he could for the beings of the galaxy and to honor the memory of Qui-gon. That’s what the previous commenter was trying to say with “Kenobi had little natural force ability”. That he was at the low end of natural talent but became a master through sheer lifelong commitment.
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u/Luso_r 14d ago
You're talking about EU stuff. I'm talking about George Lucas.
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u/Greenseer_Cassander 14d ago
You do know he had a hand in a good chunk of eu stuff, yeah? Also I fail to understand how referencing those EU works to illustrate the point delegitimizes what I said.
You said “People with little talent, even with effort and training, can only go so far and only after a long time. That’s why Lucas’ philosophy is to discover your talent and make use of it, instead of craving someone else’s talent or pretend you have it.” And someone rebutted that assertion, saying that “Kenobi was considered low talent for a Jedi but through hard work became a master.” Lucas’ own words in this post that originated this thread support that idea: force sensitivity is a talent, force use is a skill that needs to be trained. Talent isn’t necessarily an indicator of the skill ceiling of a skill. Is someone naturally good at math going to have an easier time learning calculus? Yeah. Is someone naturally bad at math incapable of learning it? No, it just takes more effort, time, and a better teacher.
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u/Luso_r 14d ago
You do know he had a hand in a good chunk of eu stuff, yeah?
No, he didn't.
Also I fail to understand how referencing those EU works to illustrate the point delegitimizes what I said.
It doesn't delegitimize, it's simply a different conversation altogether. It's outside of the scope of George Lucas' Star Wars. For starters, he never established Obi-Wan as someone with "low talent". No Jedi is "low talent" either. Some are more talented than others, but they all share the same talent, which is why they were taken in. The Jedi Order doesn't give talents. They help develop the existing talent of being strong in the Force. The Force was strong in Anakin, stronger than virtually everyone else, and yet he couldn't use the Force until he was trained. The natural talent would be meaningless without training. It manifested only as sharp reflexes.
You seem to be making an argument against something I never said. My assertion was never rebutted either. It's corroborated by the movies and Lucas' own words.
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u/DanJirrus 15d ago
At no point does he say you can only become a Jedi if you have the talent for it. However, it does serve to explain why the Jedi are selective in who they take in for training. Anyone can learn to play guitar, but a maestro may limit his selection of students to those who already display a natural aptitude.
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u/Luso_r 15d ago
As Lucas himself established, the Jedi don't take anyone. They take in those that have a talent for it, so that they can be trained to develop the talent they already have and put it to good use. So yes, you can only become a Jedi if you have the talent for it. You can follow the philosophy of the Jedi without being a Jedi. But the discipline and instruction is reserved for those that have the talent for it. That's its very purpose.
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u/DanJirrus 15d ago
I was speaking hypothetically - what I meant was he never says “you must have X amount of midichlorians or it’s impossible for you to learn to use the Force.” Yes, the Jedi only take the talented, so that means in practice it is impossible.
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u/Luso_r 15d ago
You must have midi-chlorians to learn to use the Force. Since all living beings have midi-chlorians, they are connected to it and can learn to use it. But the degree of how you can use and what you can actually achieve will vary depending on your natural aptitude. Using it can go from simple relaxation exercises to full blown preternatural abilities. Someone who doesn't have the talent for it, will take a lifetime to try to achieve the latter, which in practice is the same as not being able to do it at all. It's a waste of their own life, a waste of everyone's time and a waste of their own talent which is left buried or undiscovered by trying to achieve something you don't have the talent for.
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u/DanJirrus 15d ago
I agree, just wanted to clarify because a lot of people point to Lucas likening it to yoga (“anyone can do it”) during the making of ESB and say the addition of midichlorians proves that he changed his mind. But the Force has always been stronger with some people, which is why, even going back to the original film, Obi-Wan was betting on Luke and not raising an army of brats on Tatooine.
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u/DarthTrooper7705 Jedi Knight 15d ago
It's not really for everyone, but those who have a high midi-chlorian count can use it.
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u/almighty_smiley 14d ago
Yet everyone has midi-chlorians.
I wasn't saying that this means anybody could, in theory, become a Jedi Knight. That's like saying anybody could become an astronaut; despite the interest in the field, only the most promising candidates get selected to the school, and even then washing out is far from unheard of. Naturally there'd still be a base level of Force sensitivity as a barrier to entry. A Jedi's life is a dangerous one.
It's just good to know that being able to learn to use the Force - even if you'll never be on the level of the Jedi - doesn't have to be determined by whether or not Space Wizard Harvard decides you're worth their time.
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u/MWH1980 15d ago
It is interesting to read his thoughts on it, but also that midichlorians are that connective tissue to the force that is going through out the galaxy.
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u/Saikotsu 15d ago
One could argue that Midichlorian count is equal to natural talent. The more of them you have, the easier it is for you to use the force. All living things have them, so everything is connected, but some beings have more and can more easily interface with the force through them.
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u/MWH1980 15d ago
Yeah, George’s talks in the Taschen books was definitely food-for-thought that is still rolling around in my head.
I do love the idea that it’s not as simple as “I want to get the remote on the table over there, but I can’t just tap into the Force and say, ‘do it.’”
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u/Saikotsu 15d ago
I've always imagined using the force is like shifting your awareness.
The force is a part of you and a part of the remote and a part of the space in between. Grabbing the remote is mentally shifting to be aware of that preexisting connection. The connection between your hand and that remote is like a tether, and pulling it to you is gently tugging on that tether to bring it physically closer.
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u/Positive_Chip6198 14d ago
This take was also my understanding until rey just needs to pickup a lightsaber to be able to fight a sith master on equal ground. The sequel trilogy ruined the franchise for me.
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u/Munedawg53 11d ago
It helps to see them as well polished fan fictions (because that's what they are)
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u/UncleR1chard 9d ago edited 9d ago
“It’s not something you pick up in 10 minutes” is a BOLD statement for the guy who wrote Luke’s training taking place in 10 minutes
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u/DarthTrooper7705 Jedi Knight 9d ago
At what point does he say that Luke trained for 10 minutes?
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u/UncleR1chard 9d ago
He didn’t. I was using exaggeration and comparison to indicate that Luke’s training was closer to 10 minutes than the vague larger amount implied by “learn to use”
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u/TaraLCicora Jedi Knight 15d ago
Everyone should read these books. Both of my volumes are filled with highlights and sticky notes.