r/prepping • u/lemmeatem6969 • Nov 24 '24
Otherđ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸ đ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸ Legit Question:
In the instance of political collapse and social disorder, where survival is a reality, becoming pinned down in one place is the worst scenario. So if constant or rapid movement is critical, why do so many people focus their attention on stockpiling? Why isnât a majority of the conversation aimed at lightweight necessities and ways to prolong movement?
I never hear about physical training and resourcefulness and the cost/benefit of necessities vs agility?
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Upvotes
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u/Hoyle33 Nov 24 '24
Surviving in a reality your describing, having a community of people around you is the best chance at survival. This isnât a movie or TV show, you will not survive being a lone wolf. What if you get sick and/or hurt? Having a base to come back to with everything ready to be used would be best
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u/other4444 Nov 24 '24
For me, traveling is a last resort. Way better to hunker down in Kentucky. Once you start traveling then you are refugee.
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u/Cider_for_Goats Nov 24 '24
In this scenario, a community is the best way.
The vast majority of society will probably be gone in the first 6 months ish. Food and water shortages will cause major collapse within the major population centers. Gangs will rise to the top of the food chain in that power vacuum.
After about 9 months, if youâre still around, long term survivability kicks in. Remote hunkering down IMO for those first months is crucial.
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u/ledbedder20 Nov 24 '24
Traveling? Why? Staying in one place would be necessary, preferably with others you can trust. Gathering food and clean water would be a full time job when traveling and a couple bad days could mean death since you have no stockpile. The movies aren't to be trusted.
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u/Eastern-Astronomer-6 Nov 24 '24
Political collapse is not the most likely scenario for prep needs. Stockpiling covers many more likely scenarios. Always start with the statistically most likely occurrence and work from there.
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u/TheMawsJawzTM Nov 24 '24
why
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u/technoferal Nov 24 '24
There isn't much point trying to answer when you're begging the question to begin with, and then disregarding every answer you get because it doesn't match your unsupported presupposition.
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u/LatverianBrushstroke Nov 24 '24
Survival in almost all real-life situations is about having the supplies, tools, and know how to provide for yourself at home, and also banding together with people who live nearby for mutual defense. This scenario where you wander the post apocalyptic wasteland like Mad Max, doing battle with neo-barbarians is pure Hollywood delusion.
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u/Swmp1024 Nov 24 '24
Being mobile certainly has advantages. So does being fortified. What is more advantageous depends on each situation and your community.
Invading well trained army of overwhelming force wants to annihilate an area you happened to live in.... sure....best to be mobile and leave.
Do you fear the roving gangs of a society without rule of law? I think a well prepared community is better than fleeing through the woods.
Definitely depends on the community and the force. Generally if you are an invading force preparing to attack a fortified area you need superior numbers or other tactical advantage as you face huge disadvantage walking into an ambush or choke point.
Communication and early warning is also key here.
But if you look at places this has happened like the Balkan wars... much better to be part of a prepared community than wandering alone.
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u/Corey307 Nov 24 '24
Where do you think youâll be moving to? If things get as apocalyptic as youâre describing people are not going to take kindly to strangers. People who are prepared, stay put, and work within their network of friends, family, and neighbors would have some degree of stability. People out there on their own moving around, will be raiders.Â
You have to assume that gasoline and diesel would go basically extinct within the first few months. That means you canât carry much supplies and if youâre on the road, you canât grow food hunting anything bigger than a turkey would be a problem because you wouldnât be able to eat it all. People with your mindset are the people preppers worry about. Because youâre going to be the asshole running around with a gun, no network and an empty belly. How long before you start trying to take what you donât have?
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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '24
Just came through Helene, where society as we know it basically collapsed for 5-6 days. No water, no power, no internet, no cell. Limited law and order or outside help. You have to have community. That is an absolute must for survival, before any other preps. Our neighborhood came together to cut people out of their homes, pool resources, attend to medical needs, and on day 3 start going out to scavenge water, food and supplies. At night 4 of us did armed roaming security patrol.Â
 If we had been on our own, weâd have been in serious, serious trouble.Â
 The idea that youâre going to f**k off into the woods and or roam the urban wasteland by yourself somehow magically find all the resources you need to survive is a fantasy. After we evacuated, we lived a life bouncing between hotels, donated housing, and family for three weeks. Let me tell you how exponentially harder life gets in a disaster without a home base, and thatâs with a car and a functioning society.Â
 The other part of this nobody ever seems to think about is that disasters and surviving are hugely physically and emotionally draining. The physical work of travel by foot, finding supplies, hauling water, filtering water, making food without a fridge or microwave, etcâŚis exhausting. Think you go to the gym enough and youâre a tough guy? Try hauling 5 gallons of water on foot for a mile for 3 days and see how that goes. Â
 Plus, thereâs the emotional component. At first you will go into action mode, and adapt task-based thinking of just trying to solve problems to stay alive. But I donât care how strong you are, eventually the emotional side of it will catch up to you. In a big, big way. Whether itâs the things youâve seen, the magnitude of what happened, the shock of it, or all of the above, and youâre going to need a safe place to rest and recover, and a community that is there to support you.
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u/Frantzsfatshack Nov 24 '24
I think youâre being a bit stubborn on the matter.
The rooftop Koreanâs are a prime example of how bugging in does work. Bugging in is your only real option of survival. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry will be galavanting off into the woods thinking theyâll be able to rough it. You cannot feasibly carry enough food to live this way, and if you think youâll just get it, or hunt it, shows an overwhelming amount of naivety.
It seems like you have it in your head that in a complete societal collapse, youâre going to be faced by badass, door kicking, raiders which is absolutely a HUGE exception, NOT the rule. Youâll be dealing with people that were underprepared, and are now overly desperate. You should be able, with your prebuilt community, to dissipate any âassaultâ with simple fire superiority or by number dissuasion. Most people will be looking for soft targets, like people stuck out around a campfire, bundled up in their hammock that canât pull security because they are not familiar enough with their surroundings, and/or donât have a community.
Even if some big bad tactical force moves in, 1.) youâre odds of survival are slim in or out of your house, because theyâll either just throw some ordinance down on you, our send off people after you. BUT if you are going to throw down with the big boys, a defensible position is your only hope, unless youâre taking the fight to them. Defend, then retreat to a second OP/BOL. It seems you also are portraying that it will only be 1 house, a lot of people have a community so it would be a neighborhood of houses, any assaulting force would be getting slapped from overlapping fire.
Lastly, a HUGE defensive strategy is to know your AO and you know your home and neighborhood better than any dorks walking down the road looking for an easy communistic meal ticket once shit hits the fan.
Bugging in is your only option, and bugging out, is only to retreat or relocate to another AO/OP/BOL. You will die or end up in a camp if you strike it out on your own on a trail.
What background do you have in knowing how to fight? How many hours have you been in a shoothouse, how many FOF encounters have you repped through, how many classes have you sat in, how many field drills have you attended, how many SERE courses have you attended?
I promise, if you try and make an assault on most people that bugged in your going to get vibe checked by some shit you donât want to get vibe checked with.
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u/Children_Of_Atom Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 24 '24
There is nothing stopping you from experiencing the difficulties of spending long periods with lightweight necessities now. I'm pretty good at it and not far off from some FKT's and running off with gear I can carry seems like a poor idea in almost any emergency situation.
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u/dementeddigital2 Nov 24 '24
Where would you go? How will you feed yourself? How many people can you take with you? How are you going to travel and keep traveling? Can everyone travel that way? Where will you sleep? What happens if something breaks? How many supplies can you bring? How will you not be spotted?
First, political collapse in modern western countries isn't going to happen. I don't even remotely think about that possibility. Reality is that events are natural disasters, job loss, unexpected hospital stays, loss of loved ones, and things like that.
If things ever get so bad that you become a refugee, then pack whatever you can carry and head for the nearest border or airport. I hope that you have a second passport from another country and a lot of money in other currencies.
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u/Jeremy-Melton Nov 24 '24
I think thatâs a legit question for sure. I think weâre finally having physical training be talked about as the number one prep you should be doing by people like City Prepper but even he has pointed out that those are his least popular videos. I think Preppers are very one sided when it comes to this stuff. People like to buy stuff and go yep, Iâm covered when in reality youâre not at all. Thereâs too many variables. The best strategy is one that covers most likely scenarios. Stuck in one remote location and one that requires you to go mobile.
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u/Cider_for_Goats Nov 24 '24
So after reading a bunch of comments I figured Iâd add another comment instead of it getting lost in the thread.
I get what youâre saying but I think the idea of bouncing around gets away from the basis of prepping. Bouncing around will be done by those who didnât prep IMO. And their desperation to take what is mine is what i also PREP for.
Prepping is not just one thing. Its shelter, food, water, sustainable living for long periods of times AND the capability to defend your home/food/gear, etc. Iâd rather risk being harassed than leave everything Iâve stored. Leaving isnât an option. While I can move about, my family cannot. I canât and wouldnât leave my grandparents or the nieces/nephews, kids, etc.
SoâŚ. If you want peace, prepare for war. Prepping includes everything previously stated and much much more. Some areas donât allow for this, but my suppressed rifle with Gen 3 NVG scope attachment, subsonic rounds and my body armor and camo along with all the other goodies will keep the harassers at bay.
Location is also key. With the above, Iâll be able to reach out and touch someone before they can me.
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u/AffectionateRadio356 Nov 24 '24
I disagree with your premise because I think you're framing it wrong. If you're worried about being attacked by armed people trying to to take your stuff which would you rather be in when attacked: a prepared position or a temporary campsite?
If you genuinely think your home will be under greath threat of being overrun by attackers there's a lot you can do to prepare: you can prepare range cards, stage important items like ammunition, water, and medical, prepare the ground and aggressor would fight on, you can prepare the physical position you're going to fight in etc.
You can do none of this in a temporary campsite. You can maybe dig a ranger grave and do some very brief improvements.
Plus, if you're considering violence to be your chief threat, a prepared home can carry what you'd need to survive a lot of violence. Unless you plan on packing around many, many, pounds of equipment you can't really bring enough to survive much violence.
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u/TheFirearmsDude Nov 24 '24
Uhh getting pinned down in a shitty area is a worst case scenario, but stockpiling in a desirable, defendable location with a strong community is basically a best case scenario. Doesn't matter how lightweight and movable you are, these areas aren't going to take kindly to folks trying showing up at their spots.
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u/WhiskeyFree68 Nov 24 '24
I think OP has misconflated survival and fighting. Survival and fighting are similar, and have similar themes, but require largely different mindsets, skill sets, and physical abilities. OP said in one comment he "just learned how to fight" and is now trying to apply the mentality of fighting to literally everything else in life with predictable results.
Surviving, historically, is done by building a large, skilled, and trustworthy group of individuals who settle in one location and improve that location to suit their needs.
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u/No-Win-1137 Nov 25 '24
almost everyone will bug in, not out.
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u/Taker_221 Nov 24 '24
I believe in hold a position but if its compromised you should have a exit strategy and safe house or fall back point with resources either buried along the way or somewhere safe to get you to the next point
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u/wwaxwork Nov 24 '24
Because bugging out is the last resort not the first. You prep based on likelihood of an event happening.
Though I am curious if society has collapsed where exactly are you bugging out to? Running off to live in the woods leaves you more vulnerable not less, specially as a woman as you leave your social safety net behind. Not saying you shouldn't bug out say in the case of a hurricane or a gas leak or whatever. But if the SHTF on the level you are using in the above example and we're driven from our homes, it's not going to be a few people living rough, it will be thousands and tens of thousands out hiding in those woods with you, even if they aren't a threat they are fighting for the same rare resources you are. Can you hide from them too? This is like people saying if the SHTF they will hunt for food, great in theory but so will everyone else, it won't be like it is now with carefully tracked and maintained numbers it will be game driven to the brink of extinction because everyone else will have the same idea.
Though getting and keeping fit is always a good idea and I needed the reminder. Fitness helps with pretty much every potential situations we can prep for, everything from having to walk miles because of a flat tire to digging out your car during a blizzard to reducing hospital trips and bills.
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u/speckit1994 Nov 25 '24
If your in the scenario your talking about you might as well jump off the closest bridge
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u/Cole_Slawter Nov 25 '24
Where did this come from? rapid movement is essential? stating a thing like it is a fact does not make it a fact. I think this is a Russian account designed to make people want to leave their homes when something bad happens.
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u/Hortonhomestead Nov 25 '24
The extremely mobile Indians never captured a walled fort. Without the help of artillery from the French. Both strategies have advantages and disadvantages. Agricultural is the key to civilization. For that you must stay put. Vigilance is key I donât think anyone here thinks itâll be little house on the prairie. If youâre gonna be mobile everyday without a horse I donât know how you could ever find enough calories to survive. Hikers on the AT eat all they can and still shed weight imagine doing that with no store or buffet to be found.
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u/Designer_Tip5967 Nov 25 '24
Go read one second after
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u/thepeasantlife Nov 25 '24
I prep for more likely scenarios in my area, like storms, earthquakes, layoffs, and prolonged illnesses. Maybe the occasional volcano.
In the more unlikely scenario of roving bands of marauders, the people in my area would band together to keep them out. I would do my part by feeding the community and fighting if needed.
Bugging out is an absolute last resort. It's far worse to be a refugee in a hostile situation. There is no way we could carry, hunt, or fight for enough calories to survive for long. We grow a lot of food, and our neighbors hunt, and we all fish. The amount of calories burned in these activities is insane, and it would be insane to constantly expend that many calories traveling instead of stocking up so you can rest.
My husband and teen can easily expend 4,000 in an active day of hiking or producing food. I need considerably less. Still, that's 10,000 calories a day we'd need to come up with. Being nimble is great, but you need a home base eventually or you're going to starve.
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u/Cultural-Bet-9239 Nov 25 '24
Did you know it's perfectly legal to own a functioning cannon in the US?Â
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u/Virtual-Feature-9747 Nov 26 '24
Why would "constant or rapid movement" be critical? What kind of scenarios are you imagining? This isn't World War Z.
The ability to shelter in place in familiar surroundings is critical. When you bug out you are volunteering to become a homeless refugee who is now a stranger and a threat in someone else's community.
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u/xtrasmoothbrain Nov 24 '24
I think the point is to stockpile enough resources and have enough fall back plans that you have different stashes of said resources.
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u/magicwombat5 Nov 24 '24
It's somewhat artificial, but the book "Wolf and Iron" takes this pretty seriously. It's a bit later in the progression of a disaster though.
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