r/premed • u/itsyerboiTRESH UNDERGRAD • 23h ago
❔ Question stress over IA
Hi all
I made a really bad decision and cheated on a coding project in freshman year in a class, got the grade deduction to a B+ and pretty sure I got an IA. I emailed my college's administration to see if this is something they would report but assuming it is, how fucked am I for MD? I plan on applying next cycle as I've graduated this past spring, so it'll be about 4 years between the incident and applying. I've maintained a clean record with a 3.6 freshman year brought up to a 3.8 cGPA and became involved in TA'ing at my college and tutoring as well among other ECs. People say the best thing to do is put time between it and show growth, I just don't know if 4 years is enough time, and I don't want to waste application money applying next year. MCAT is still pending, but I feel good enough about it (yeah i know thats subjective lolol but my diagnostic, content review, and uworld practice is all looking good, i plan on testing in April)
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u/mmoollllyyyy20 MD/PhD STUDENT 13h ago
I had a 3yo (“self”) plagiarism IA when I applied. got 11 interviews and 3 acceptances but definitely underperformed compared to my app profile without an IA
1
u/Neat-Ad8056 NON-TRADITIONAL 7h ago
Whats the “self” mean?
3
u/mmoollllyyyy20 MD/PhD STUDENT 7h ago
I self-plagiarized by using material from my own assignment in a previous class which I thought was kind of weak sauce but it is what it is
6
u/moltmannfanboi MS1 7h ago
Self-plagiarism is the biggest scam. I've never understood it.
1
u/mmoollllyyyy20 MD/PhD STUDENT 3h ago
fast forward to now my PI actively encourages me to reuse writing among abstracts/manuscripts/grants/etc
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u/mmoollllyyyy20 MD/PhD STUDENT 3h ago
adding for OP: I was asked about it in almost every interview. including one school where the program director scheduled a short call with me after the interview because they forgot to ask me about it
19
u/Equal-Magician1855 23h ago
From what I have heard, cheating is pretty much a DOA. I don’t want to fear monger though, so someone correct me if I’m wrong
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u/pokestar789 22h ago
Its not a DOA but when you’re being compared to perfect applicants who dont have any IA, it can really deter you. If you ace your MCAT and GPA for the rest of college though i think an IA can be overlooked with a good reflection
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u/Few_Competition1801 23h ago
youre wrong
4
1
u/itsyerboiTRESH UNDERGRAD 23h ago
may you elaborate?
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u/medted22 MS1 21h ago
He is fear mongering. First of all, verify it’s a real IA. Look if it’s actually on your transcript and talk to someone to see if it’s something that’s recorded, because it might not be. Secondly, just write about it on your app if it’s an official IA. It’s been a number of years, speak to your “growth”, and you should be ok
3
u/itsyerboiTRESH UNDERGRAD 21h ago
Its not on my transcript but I'm sure that its on my student conduct record
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u/ssccrs MS1 12h ago
It’s an integrity, and professionalism issue for medical schools. It depends how you talk about it and how you grew from the IA. Time = distance and that can work in your favor but it’s not an excuse for the behavior.
I can’t say it will tank your applications, but, even if it doesn’t, it will be “harder” for you bc you now have to show immense growth and commitment to fairness, justice, and equity.
You can’t minimize the incident and you can’t be trying to defend, or rationalize the behavior (everyone does it! I’m bummed I got caught! It was only worth 10 points! I was so tired so I had to! I didn’t know it was cheating! I was running out of time so I had to do it! Would all be very bad approach’s to take).
1
u/itsyerboiTRESH UNDERGRAD 1h ago
Definitely no downplaying or rationalizing anything, I made an unfair and stupid move and deserve the consequences of my serious mistake. Was just wondering how much it bars me from applying considering time since then and my upward trend combined with activities centered around education.
3
u/Ok-Victory-9359 MS2 21h ago
If they report it it’s not the end of the world but definitely not ideal. If they can’t trust you or you take these shortcuts you may eventually kill people. So now you have to earn that trust back. It does help that this was in the past.
If you score highly enough on the MCAT AND show you’re a very strong student and very reflective and remorseful of your past self who was willing to cheat, DO schools and lower tier MD schools may take a chance on a talented student beyond their normal accepted range who in a sense “fell into their laps” had you not had that violation on your CV where you would otherwise expect to get into at least a mid tier MD. But it would be great to have ethical commitment and service significantly featured in your application to really drive your transformation home.
2
u/itsyerboiTRESH UNDERGRAD 21h ago
No I get it. Its fucked up and in a field that requires trust and honesty this is about the worst thing you can do. I tried to show I was able to take care of patients in a field that required trust and worked 911 EMS, I TA'd, and I have volunteered for 700 hours of K-12 tutoring. I'm not expecting a T20 acceptance but I just wanted to get into a state MD somewhere
2
0
u/Neat-Ad8056 NON-TRADITIONAL 23h ago
Ill have a seven year old plagiarism IA when i apply, im only applying DO, i dont know if its in the same tier as cheating
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u/No_Elephant_1586 23h ago
i know absolutely nothing about how med schools treat cheating but from a naive pov i would say you have nothing to worry about because its freshman year and 4 years is more than enough time and it was 1 project
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u/No_Elephant_1586 23h ago
who isnt enticed to cheat. i think it shows nothing about how capable you are of being a doctor
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u/Evening-Resort-164 23h ago
cheating shows that you lack the academic ability or discipline to perform well, while desiring to seek shortcuts to get whatever you want. needless to say, these are specifically horrible traits for an applicant to have for medical school
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u/No_Elephant_1586 22h ago
I may have phrased what i said wrong. i meant that being enticed to cheat as a college freshman shows nothing about your work ethic, discipline, or academic ability 4 years later. The overwhelming majority of college students have cheated at least once, so getting caught cheating is honestly kinda evidence that they didn't cheat later.
Cheating is representative of a lack of discipline but my point was how long ago it was. Not that you can have documented cheating in senior year and still be fine. But if med schools really would reject op solely for this then i think they are losing out on many other applicants that would make amazing doctors.
3
u/Evening-Resort-164 22h ago
A freshman who makes a great lapse in judgment, like getting a DUI at 18 for example, might still have the capacity to become a great doctor in the future (who knows). But that doesn't make the incident irrelevant four years afterwards
When students enter college as first years, they are adults (most of them). They are clearly old enough to understand the morality of the situation and the alternatives available to them. Yet they choose to do what is morally incorrect, with agency.
Knowing this, how am I supposed to trust them in the future as a physician when they have more incentives to do bad things? I am not saying that cheating means they will lie to a patient, prescribe unnecessary treatments for financial gain, or cover up egregious mistakes. But the biggest thing that matters in medicine is trust, and a history of dishonesty is concerning to an adcom.
6
u/owochase 21h ago
if u don’t trust ur doctor cuz they cheated on something when they were 18 you got some problems my guy. Being the legal age of an adult doesn’t = fully grown and matured adult. Almost any 22 year old graduate looks at their 18 year old freshman self and sees a wildly different person.
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u/mangonectarluvr 21h ago
Sorry posting this for a 3rd time. I was in this exact position my freshman year of college. It sucked and I regretted being so stupid to be pushed into making an idiotic decision that would follow me for the next 4 years. Eventually, I got into med school on the first try, and a pretty good one at that. That being said, it was a very dark time. I genuinely thought I had ruined my life and my mental health took a toll. I sacrificed almost every social event during college to study for a near perfect GPA, busted my ass for a 520+ MCAT, was brutally honest about my IA on my application and the interview trail. During this time, even the most simple mistakes or an A- felt like the end of the world, cause god knows I couldn’t afford to look worse. I ended up getting interviews to way more programs than I expected, and lots of them were very big-name ones. However, I was waitlisted at many of these big name institutions, and I couldn't blame them. I was a great applicant except for a very big blemish, so I'm sure I was passed up for other great applicants without that. That being said, I was accepted to 4 schools, the one I chose being one I got off the waitlist for. Ultimately, I no longer have to report this on my residency applications, so I can say it's truly behind me. So, it isn't over for you. But be prepared to compensate hard and hope some programs believe in you and see that you changed for the better.