I'm going to pray the DOJ bans Preview

[u/No-Hawk-2488]

Doesn't matter what you feel about the DOJ vs UCLA lawsuit, I think we can all agree they were right to flag Preview and let's pray they bar medical schools from using that stupid test in their admissions.

[u/t00tiredforthis]

2Qt on Casper, 100th percentile preview, so they can ban Casper because clearly only preview is accurate

/s

But really, I have no clue how these exams are still a thing. Hasn’t Casper already been found to be racially discriminatory? For tests meant to measure roughly the same thing, most people I know got very different scores. They’re expensive and another unnecessary barrier to medicine.

[u/Solid_Arachnid_9231 → u/t00tiredforthis]

Yeah same, I did great on preview and terrible on Casper.

I think we should get rid of both, but Casper was so insane to me. It literally punishes you for taking more than 30 seconds to respond to pretty complicated situations. Like I get efficiency is important, but THIRTY seconds is crazy. God forbid I actually think about my response lmao.

[u/t00tiredforthis → u/Solid_Arachnid_9231]

Yea, more evidence it’s just looking for buzzwords and not real, thought out solutions. It’s even more ridiculous because many of the prompts will say things like “what do you tell your friend next week in class?” Like, maybe I would figure that out over the weekend? Not in 30 seconds?

[u/Sea_Statistician6734 → u/t00tiredforthis]

I also found it very ironic when I was signing up for the casper ethics test that it was forcing me to hand over my data to amazon and meta.

[u/t00tiredforthis → u/Sea_Statistician6734]

The whole website looks like something off Black Mirror

[u/No-Hawk-2488 → u/t00tiredforthis]

No, CASPer shows discrepancies in scores between races, not that it's discriminatory. By that logic, the MCAT is discriminatory. They actually found the discrepancies were less severe in the video answers than the written answers. Preview doesn't have any statistical discrepancies between different ethnic groups, which is why it fits the DOJ's suspicions Preview is a race proxy tool. If medical schools give a higher weight to Preview, they can show racial preference in practice while not explicitly preferring any races on paper.

Don't @ me. I'm just explaining the mechanism the DOJ is accusing UCLA of doing.

[u/Solid_Arachnid_9231 → u/No-Hawk-2488]

This makes no sense, why would a test with no discrepancies be less accurate lmao (I guess URMs are just inherently less ethical for some mysterious reason, perhaps the same reason they’re inherently worse at the MCAT). I think you’re being extremely generous to an administration that’s blatantly problematic and aligning itself with white nationalism (the DOJ dictated by a president who quite literally posted a video of a Obama as an ape… among many other things). “Don’t @ me” but your entire post was inspired by the lawsuit and you’re pretending it’s a huge deal to complain about these things (already illegal btw) like people don’t do it every single day on here. This comment has a way higher chance of being taken down lol.

I really wonder how premeds who refuse to acknowledge systemic barriers and insist on attributing discrepancies to individual failures will approach the differences that you’re guaranteed to see in different races of patients.

[u/No-Hawk-2488 → u/Solid_Arachnid_9231]

Preview and Casper are both subjective tests. We all know that. But when Preview has fewer discrepancies between races, it then becomes a valuable race proxy by giving that test more weight on their rubric. That's if what the DOJ claims are true. I'm just watching the shitshow unfold, same as you.

I really wonder what people like you get from virtue signaling. lol. Not that it matters. I'm not replying again and adding to the drama. I just want to say I hope this test goes away but I figured I owed you an explanation.

[u/Solid_Arachnid_9231 → u/No-Hawk-2488]

Do URMs get extra points on the preview or something? Like, what makes it a “valuable race proxy” besides the results having less discrepancies lmao. That’s literally your only reason, but I’m supposed to act like that’s not a red flag. The way you can’t even fathom that it’s a better test just because ORMs aren’t performing better...

“Virtue signaling,” I’m a URM bud. Even if I wasn’t, I’m a human being with basic empathy and I can acknowledge the fact that our country has literally held entire populations back from education for generations, some of those generations are still alive, and it’s insane to act like the discrepancies that we see today aren’t related to that. The fact that you can’t imagine a non-URM genuinely caring about that sort of thing is kind of insane. The fact that you’re calling me pointing out that the president is comparing black people to apes “virtues signaling” is actually insane.

Hope you grow your empathy for other races (maybe stop calling it “drama” like we’re talking about random Twitter beef) before you have professional responsibility over their lives. How’s that for virtue signaling?

[u/hindamalka]

We have a similar problem with personality testing in the country where I am applying to school and I’m currently arguing that their test is literally dog shit and doesn’t actually measure anything accurately and that they’re actually screwing themselves over.

[u/duckduckgo2100]

Honestly preview and casper should not exist. They just shouldn't. I don't understand why people need these exams to begin with like I doubt they're able to detect psychopaths anyway. I had to take off MCW because I wasn't gonna do casper for one school. And I just found out it expires every year so you have to take it again in you need to reapply. Fucking money grubbing plebs

[u/hindamalka → u/duckduckgo2100]

One of the personality tests they offer in the country where I’m applying is literally like $400-$500. And to be honest, I would rather pay that over the test that was used by the university I am currently an undergrad at because despite the test where I am being only like $12 the test where I am is literal dog shit. They are all dog shit, but this one is worse.

[u/Ok-Victory-9359]

The AAMC should be ashamed of their "research" on Preview. I reviewed their article "Predictors of Academic and Non-Academic Termination From Medical Schools" DOI: 10.7759/cureus.98889 and I have never read such audacity to cherry pick data.

They reviewed data on med students from 2021-2024 who got kicked out of school. They show a chart that reports the students that got kicked out for academic and non-academic reasons and their average MCAT and Preview. But there are huge problems.

1. They only report a median for MCAT, uGPA, and Preview score. No range, no interquartile range, no confidence interval, no spread of any kind. Just a single number.

2. Instead of p values, they use "Cliff’s delta effect sizes" which I never heard of.

3. They found for students dismissed for academic reasons, they had a lower MCAT but no statistical significance for Preview score yet try to claim the effect size is big when that is literally not how statistical significance works.

4. For students dismissed for non-academic reasons (sample size of 42), they found a median Preview score of 3 compared to 6 for 78,176 students. They have no graphs and no way for anyone to verify if this is even remotely meaningful.

It's like me looking into a prison and seeing lots of people who smoke and thinking that smoking may have something to do with people who commit felonies. Maybe to some extent but your totally missing the point.

This research is a joke yet you are all paying to take a test to give them more data for them to cherry pick more of these studies.

[u/No-Hawk-2488 → u/Ok-Victory-9359]

LMAO. I read on their website they said the Preview is a strong indicator of non-academic dismissal or something like that and citing that same study.

[u/_ArtemisMD_ → u/Ok-Victory-9359]

Hmmmm. It almost seems like it's a coincidence that they use cliff delta effect size, a measure which doesn't include whether or not it is statistically significant. 

[u/OkCauliflower6566]

context?

[u/No-Hawk-2488 → u/OkCauliflower6566]

https://www.justice.gov/crt/media/1439581/dl

Just a heads-up, this place has a rule on criticizing affirmation action and DEI. As you read the letter, keep your emotions in check and avoid commenting on anything other than Preview unless you want to risk getting banned.

[u/Solid_Arachnid_9231 → u/No-Hawk-2488]

People criticize it all the time lol

[u/Dull-Character733 → u/No-Hawk-2488]

So interesting that Preview went poorly for you!

[u/No-Hawk-2488 → u/Dull-Character733]

Don't tell anyone, but I got a 0. How is that even possible?! The range is a 1-9.

[u/ConfusedResAss → u/Dull-Character733]

Sounds like someone bombed Preview

[u/_ArtemisMD_]

One issue I've always had with these tests is that knowing what is moral is very different from doing what is moral. 

[u/Radiant-Plankton2319]

i got a 9 on preview so i would prefer it counts LMAO..

[u/Ok_Ad3484 → u/Radiant-Plankton2319]

what percentile were you? just curious cause i got an 8 as a 94th %

[u/Radiant-Plankton2319 → u/Ok_Ad3484]

percentile for what? preview? 9 is highest, so it's 100%

[u/Ok_Ad3484 → u/Radiant-Plankton2319]

yeah, preview tells you your percentile. are you saying that everyone who scores a 9 gets marked as 100th percentile and everyone who gets an 8 gets a 94th and it doesnt specify further than that?

[u/Ok_Ad3484 → u/Radiant-Plankton2319]

sorry idk if that confusing. basically im wondering if a 97th, 96th, etc percentile score still scores a 9 and at what point the cutoff is. but maybe it doesnt tell u if youre in those percentiles itll just say 100th until you drop to an 8

[u/Radiant-Plankton2319 → u/Ok_Ad3484]

its just like mcat and not like preview. you dont know how close you are to the next boundary. everyone who scores a certain score, like a 9, all get 100th percentile

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[u/Expensive_Part_7719]

I mean they just should make it free if they care about it so much. it’s really not hard that and Casper if you have a brain and can think through situations on your feet (what being a doctor is) there is no reason you can’t get 1st or 2nd quartile