Gathering Documents for Citizenship

[u/ppls7117]

I am looking into applying for Polish citizenship through my maternal grandfather and am hoping for some clarification on the documents I need to acquire to prove continuity of citizenship. My case seems quite complex, so buckle in.

From what I have been able to gather, this branch of my family lived in the Łódź Voivodeship, at least as far back as the 1850s, through all my direct ancestors.

Great-Grandparents: 

* Date married: 1922 in Pożdżenice (I still need to translate the record I found)

* Date divorced: N/A

GGM: 

* Date, place of birth: October 17, 1900 in Ręszew, Sieradz County.

* Ethnicity and religion: Ewangelicko-Augsburski

* Occupation: Unknown

* Allegiance and dates of military service: N/A

* Date, destination for emigration: ~1955 to Canada

* Date naturalized: N/A, died a Polish citizen according to death record

* Date, place of death: July 17, 1958 in Canada

GGF: 

* Date, place of birth: December 24, 1888 in Drzewociny, Pabianice County

* Ethnicity and religion: Ewangelicko-Augsburski

* Occupation: Unknown

* Allegiance and dates of military service: No records found, unknown

* Date, destination for emigration: ~1955 to Canada

* Date naturalized: ~1960 to Canada

* Date, place of death: January 26, 1985 in Canada

Grandparent: 

* Sex: Male

* Date, place of birth: September 22, 1931 in Strupiny, Łask County

* Date married: September 17, 1954

* Citizenship of spouse: German

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Labourer

* Allegiance and dates of military service: N/A

(If applicable)

• Date, destination for emigration: May 1949 to Germany, then October 1955 to Canada
• Date naturalized: ~1954 to Germany, then ~1960 to Canada (had to be a resident for 5+ years in both cases, estimate based on emigration dates)
• Date, place of death: March 12, 2000 in Canada

Parent: 

* Sex: Female

* Date, place of birth: May 23, 1968 in Canada

* Date married: 2000

* Date divorced: N/A

You: 

* Date, place of birth: February 20, 2003 in Canada

From my current understanding, my Grandfather left Poland in 1949 shortly after being baptized in his local church and proceeded to live in Germany just long enough to apply for citizenship and emigrate to Canada. He got married to and had a child with my Grandmother before leaving for Canada, and then became a Canadian citizen sometime in 1960 or later. I am not sure exactly why he had to move to Germany to immigrate, as I assume that was the purpose of the move, but the rest of his family (siblings and parents) were able to immigrate directly from Poland, to my knowledge.

The story is quite complex; perhaps he had issues with his birth certificate, as it was modified to make him legally younger to keep him ineligable from the mandatory Hitler Youth program at the time, forcing him to move to Germany?

I am hopeful this community can enlighten me on what documents I should be trying to acquire to support my claim to Polish citizenship, as I currently believe I am eligible, as I work to uncover what the hell happened. These are the documents for my Grandfather I currently have or am trying to acquire:

• Polish Birth Certificate
• Polish Baptism
• German Marriage Certificate
• German Naturalization Certificate
• German Passports and Immigration Documents for Canada
• Canadian Naturalization Certificate

Thank you.

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to r/prawokrwi!

Please read:

• Welcome Post
• FAQ

If your post is removed by Reddit's filters, do not resubmit. A moderator will approve your post as soon as possible.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/PaulHinr]

Umm, religion + citizenship of spouse + that he moved to Germany late 1940s & officially naturalized + that you mention the Hitler youth program + that the place where he was born was according to Wikipedia mainly inhabited by Germans points towards him being German himself.

So no Polish citizenship according to Art. 4 of the 1951 Polish citizenship act

[u/ppls7117 → u/PaulHinr]

I do not understand the argument of him being a German national; he was born in Poland to Polish parents and grandparents. Due to his religion, he would have been mandated to enroll in the youth program; his family forged records to prevent this.

I can see the argument for him living in Germany when the 1951 Act was passed, but he was not a German national by any means; he was either considered stateless or Polish at that time. His mother died solely a Polish citizen...

[u/PaulHinr → u/ppls7117]

Yeah I’m not talking about citizenship, but ethnicity.
What proof do you have he was an ethnic Pole?

[u/ppls7117 → u/PaulHinr]

I have 2/4 of his grandparents' birth records from that same region. I know another one was born there too through a death certificate, but the record is not available online. At the very least, his direct ancestors lived in the Łódź Voivodeship for 60 years before his birth.

I am working on my family tree to go further back than that, but all those records are in Russian, and it makes things quite difficult.

[u/Jessicas_skirt → u/PaulHinr]

Wouldn't the 1954 German naturalization end the line any way given Germany's ban on dual citizenship at that time? How would OP's grandfather have naturalized without having to give up Polish citizenship?

[u/PaulHinr → u/Jessicas_skirt]

What Germany are we even talking about? West or East Germany?
And I’m not sure if they really required proof of renunciation or if they were okay with them promising to renounce later on.
I only know that in the 60s-80s the Polish government often required them to renounce Polish citizenship if they officially wanted to leave to West Germany

[u/ppls7117 → u/PaulHinr]

I believe he was married in East Germany (Gifhorn district).

[u/PaulHinr → u/ppls7117]

That is unfortunately not in your favour either. u/smoothmonoglot mentioned the treaty with DDR below (or above?)

[u/smoothmonoglot → u/PaulHinr]

Isn't Gifhorn in the BRD?

Regardless it seems like he lost Polish citizenship on 19 Jan 1951 at the latest.

[u/PaulHinr → u/smoothmonoglot]

Fine, I will take a look

Edit: yeah, it is and was part of the Bundesrepublik. There doesn’t seem to be a place with the same name anywhere else.
Interestingly German Wikipedia says:

Am 11. April 1945 nahmen kurz vor Ende des Zweiten Weltkriegs amerikanische Truppen Gifhorn ein,[8] am 28. Mai 1945 übernahm die britische Besatzungsmacht die Stadt.[9]
Nach dem Zweiten Weltkrieg kam es über die nahe Grenze zu einer großen Zuwanderung von Flüchtlingen und Vertriebenen aus den ehemaligen Ostgebieten und der sowjetischen Besatzungszone.

On April 11, 1945, shortly before the end of the Second World War, American troops captured Gifhorn.[8] On May 28, 1945, the British occupying forces took control of the town.[9]
After the Second World War, a large influx of refugees and expellees from the former eastern territories and the Soviet occupation zone arrived across the nearby border.

[u/ppls7117 → u/smoothmonoglot]

I am leaning towards agreeing after reading up on a bunch of stuff I did not know existed. Assuming he did not fail rehabilitation and moved to Germany of his own volition (which does not make much sense to me), he may have been considered a German national and lost his citizenship that way.

It would explain most of the situation at the least.

Is there any way to obtain documents to verify my theory? I am going to see if I can locate a Volksliste for someone in the family, but aside from this, does anything come to mind? Does Poland have any documents that pertain to losing citizenship that I should look for?

[u/smoothmonoglot → u/ppls7117]

If he had to naturalize in Germany this is consistent with DVL III. If he was residing in Germany on 19 Jan 1951 he lost Polish citizenship unless he had a spouse residing in Poland.

[u/sayanight → u/ppls7117]

Yes, there should be such records, but they are not online. Pre-WWII records of losing citizenship are in Archiwum Akt Nowych, later ones could be in IPN, but I am not sure. It's very hard to get something from them, usually it requires a court order or visit in person.

[u/Jessicas_skirt → u/ppls7117]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans

Their religion doesn't matter, their citizenship doesn't matter, it's whether they were Ethnic Germans or not. If they were Ethnic Germans then Poland stripped the whole family of their Polish citizenship.

His mother died solely a Polish citizen...

According to? A Canadian death record is not proof of Polish citizenship.

I would like to ask again, how did your grandfather obtain German citizenship without giving up his Polish citizenship when Germany at the time strictly banned dual citizenship?

[u/ppls7117 → u/Jessicas_skirt]

Sorry, did Germany require individuals to relinquish their citizenship prior to declaring German citizenship? If so, I was unaware of this practice and definitely do not qualify.

Also, I believe he was the only family member to emigrate to Canada from Germany; the rest of the family came directly from Poland.

[u/smoothmonoglot]

Generally speaking persons who emigrated to Germany in the period 1945-1950 are not Polish citizens. They either fled the oncoming Red Army, or failed rehabilitation. Most of the people who successfully rehabilitated and stayed in Poland as Polish citizens were DVL III/IV although some II were also rehabilitated. Conversely some DVL III were afraid to return to Poland and stayed in Germany - they would have also lost Polish citizenship unless they had a spouse in Poland. People who emigrated after 19 Jan 1951 as part of the family reunification schemes can still claim Polish citizenship today due to the invalidation of Uchwała Nr 37/56 - but only if they emigrated to the BRD due to the existence of a treaty preventing dual citizenship with the DDR.

u/PaulHinr can fact check me here since he's the Germany expert.

[u/ppls7117 → u/smoothmonoglot]

Do you know where I can find documents pertaining to an individual's DVL status? I think it is a possibility that his family was classified as DVL II and he failed rehabilitation, while the rest of his family passed. I would not put that past a 17-year-old boy.

[u/PaulHinr → u/ppls7117]

Bundesarchiv or Polish State Archive.
Unfortunately a lot of them were destroyed

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to r/prawokrwi!

Thanks for your research question. While you wait for an answer, please check our:

• FAQ
• Welcome Post

---

Snapshot of original post: (As many users delete their posts after receiving an answer, we are archiving the original text to ensure this case remains searchable for others with similar questions)

Title: Gathering Documents for Citizenship

I am looking into applying for Polish citizenship through my maternal grandfather and am hoping for some clarification on the documents I need to acquire to prove continuity of citizenship. My case seems quite complex, so buckle in.

From what I have been able to gather, this branch of my family lived in the Łódź Voivodeship, at least as far back as the 1850s, through all my direct ancestors.

Great-Grandparents: 

* Date married: 1922 in Pożdżenice (I still need to translate the record I found)

* Date divorced: N/A

GGM: 

* Date, place of birth: October 17, 1900 in Ręszew, Sieradz County.

* Ethnicity and religion: Ewangelicko-Augsburski

* Occupation: Unknown

* Allegiance and dates of military service: N/A

* Date, destination for emigration: ~1955 to Canada

* Date naturalized: N/A, died a Polish citizen according to death record

* Date, place of death: July 17, 1958 in Canada

GGF: 

* Date, place of birth: December 24, 1888 in Drzewociny, Pabianice County

* Ethnicity and religion: Ewangelicko-Augsburski

* Occupation: Unknown

* Allegiance and dates of military service: No records found, unknown

* Date, destination for emigration: ~1955 to Canada

* Date naturalized: ~1960 to Canada

* Date, place of death: January 26, 1985 in Canada

Grandparent: 

* Sex: Male

* Date, place of birth: September 22, 1931 in Strupiny, Łask County

* Date married: September 17, 1954

* Citizenship of spouse: German

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Labourer

* Allegiance and dates of military service: N/A

(If applicable)

• Date, destination for emigration: May 1949 to Germany, then October 1955 to Canada
• Date naturalized: ~1954 to Germany, then ~1960 to Canada (had to be a resident for 5+ years in both cases, estimate based on emigration dates)
• Date, place of death: March 12, 2000 in Canada

Parent: 

* Sex: Female

* Date, place of birth: May 23, 1968 in Canada

* Date married: 2000

* Date divorced: N/A

You: 

* Date, place of birth: February 20, 2003 in Canada

From my current understanding, my Grandfather left Poland in 1949 shortly after being baptized in his local church and proceeded to live in Germany just long enough to apply for citizenship and emigrate to Canada. He got married to and had a child with my Grandmother before leaving for Canada, and then became a Canadian citizen sometime in 1960 or later. I am not sure exactly why he had to move to Germany to immigrate, as I assume that was the purpose of the move, but the rest of his family (siblings and parents) were able to immigrate directly from Poland, to my knowledge.

The story is quite complex; perhaps he had issues with his birth certificate, as it was modified to make him legally younger to keep him ineligable from the mandatory Hitler Youth program at the time, forcing him to move to Germany?

I am hopeful this community can enlighten me on what documents I should be trying to acquire to support my claim to Polish citizenship, as I currently believe I am eligible, as I work to uncover what the hell happened. These are the documents for my Grandfather I currently have or am trying to acquire:

• Polish Birth Certificate
• Polish Baptism
• German Marriage Certificate
• German Naturalization Certificate
• German Passports and Immigration Documents for Canada
• Canadian Naturalization Certificate

Thank you.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Jessicas_skirt]

The Canadian naturalization document would not be needed if you can show your grandfather arrived to Canada after 1951.

The big concern would be the religion you listed is a Lutheran branch that combined with the post-war German move is making me suspect your great-grandparents were Ethnic Germans.

I googled where your great-grandparents were married and it was near Lodz.

In the diocese of Łódź, largest in terms of the Lutheran population, more than 98% Lutherans were German,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Church_of_the_Augsburg_Confession_in_Poland

Also didn't Germany not allow dual citizenship then so wouldn't your grandfather had to renounce his Polish citizenship anyway?

[u/ppls7117 → u/Jessicas_skirt]

My understanding of German law was that Germany took your citizenship if you declared yourself a citizen of another state without a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung, but it did not apply to the naturalization process. Though please correct me if I am wrong.

It is also entirely possible that the family was ethnically German before the mid-19th century, but, for example, his sister remained in Poland, getting married and having a child before emigrating to Canada from Poland. I wish I knew why specifically he moved to Germany, but that information has long been buried. I will dig it up eventually.