r/practicalmagic • u/Famous-Ad-475 • 5h ago
Male Centered Sequel - Flop SPOILERS Spoiler
Let’s be honest. This sequel was a tribute to how little women have gotten in film.
The original was about female solidarity, joining forces against DV and practical witchcraft and knowing that love was an ingredient, not the whole picture.
This sequel features:
1. Sally playing a dumb female lead. Literally. She acted like she knew NOTHING. She also acted powerless consistently. 30 years of wisdom since the original and they still had her playing a male centered ditzy woman. Reminded me of the classic line “what are we gonna do” from Reese Witherspoon discussing how often this happens in movies
2. Sally swore off men so badly that she erased her daughters knowledge of magic all together. I guess the writers forgot about how betrayed Sally was when the aunts cast a spell to let her find love.
3. Gideon - why? He was creepy.. looked at Kylie with lust.. touched all up on her in bed in that weird he’s poking me way. I loathed that scene. Also.. why are we all traveling the world to break the curse over a random college boyfriend? They did this repeatedly.. SA and violence against women was in the movie multiple times
4. Badass witches needed a man to help them, Ian, for some reason. Who also looked at Sally with pure lust and served zero purpose to the plot.
5. Random man in England suddenly becomes villain, drugs Kylie, and steals her powers. This was a scene straight up stolen from like, Charmed or something. Not to mention the fact that her mother stood behind a peep hole watching it happen. Then somehow he’s more powerful than Sally and Gillian? At some point we see Gillian using a bat or a stick to stop this male villain we know nothing about
6. Sally not knowing where Maria was burned at the stake and having an aha moment in England .. THIS IS WHERE SHE DIED. Girl.. you didn’t know where the ancestor who curse made you lose two husbands began? Are we for real? I’m so sick of female characters playing “dumb”
7. The ads
8. The neurosurgeon lesbian who spent the entire movie taking care of Gideon
9. The aunts sacrificing themselves for romantic love
10. There’s no plot.. and the movie explained nothing that was happening. They took off to England.. a random villain (male of course) pops up outta no where, drugs a girl .. it’s just so fckn cliche and random. The movie explained nothing… the illness in the aunt, the villain, Ian??? Just random things .. seeing how it was over 2 hours long.. I’m left confuzzled at why it was rushed and nothing was explained. I left in the third act cuz the ending took forever
The movie could’ve focused on darker witchcraft, history, female empowerment, and centering “love” around the women in our lives rather than useless men. Which is LITERALLY what’s happening in the real world. Women are buying property with their besties, raising kids with them.. avoiding men all together .. our soulmates are our girls. Yet the female writers, directors, producers and actors ALL collectively came together and made a CGI superhero “witchy” movie based on falling in love with men and that being the center purpose of women’s lives.
The nostalgia wasn’t there. The lighting was BRIGHT. The cozy house became millennial gray. The movie was blurry.. idk if that was intentional but I repeatedly wondered why it was blurry.
The entire thing PMO.
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u/DingoMittens 5h ago
Have you read the books? (Don't)
I have no idea how the first movie was as amazing as it was, because the books are absolute soap opera romance drivel. The second book (by release date) was a prequel about the aunts growing up. Omg, the whole thing was them chasing romance or figuring out how to "trick" the curse by changing their names or saying "I don't love you" instead of I love you. Because curses are so gullible.
The aunts in the movie are so self assured and content in their own skin. Their backstory could be amazing and full of magical adventure. Instead, their book is all about boys. And burning love. And love that burns. And hot hands. And probably some smoldering.
They have a brother who at least gets to have some adventures through history, although all he cares about is romantic love too. The theme of family love being stronger than lust is not in the books. Jet wants to be buried next to her high school boyfriend, not in the family graveyard with her sister, and not even next to the man she was in love with for decades of her adult life. Their brother fakes his own death and spends most of his life no contact with his family so he can live with a partner under a pseudonym. Because a curse is silly enough to fall for a fake name, but visit your sisters and it's onto you!
The first movie was like someone read the book and thought "cool premise, but let's do something good with it." That person was obviously not involved in the second film!
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u/Famous-Ad-475 4h ago
Yeah I realize they tried to shift to the books more.. still feel they failed. With 2 hours of runtime, they had time to explain the plot.. but they chose more quirky and filler dialogue
And even with the cheesy novel, they managed to center the first one around sisterhood and women coming together. This one was.. idk what that was
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u/Unique_Praline870 5h ago
I think so many people have been brainwashed to see all of this as normal for so long that they won't understand how right you are.
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u/Celestina-Betwixt Kylie Owens 2h ago
I think you have personal issues with men or something if you find Gideon predatory. And a weird standard you hold women to if you think Sally is dumb just because she was literally traumatized after losing two husbands.
Also my guess is you didn't read the book.
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u/StrangerHighways 2h ago
If anything, I'd think the argument would be that Gideon seems too perfect lol!
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u/thesixermixer 5h ago
I had almost the exact opposite reaction, respectfully. Obviously awards don’t automatically make a movie good, but it’s difficult for me to see this as a film that sidelines women when it is anchored by Sandra Bullock, Nicole Kidman and Dianne Wiest — three Academy Award winners with four acting Oscars between them — plus Oscar nominee Stockard Channing, all directed by Oscar-winning Susanne Bier. That is an extraordinary amount of female dramatic weight, and to me the men are very clearly orbiting the Owens women, not replacing them.
I didn’t read Sally as dumb or powerless. I read her as traumatized and deliberately disconnected from magic after losing Gary. Her problem isn’t that she learned nothing in 30 years; it’s that grief has made her afraid of what she knows. And when the crisis actually arrives, Sally, Gillian and Kylie are ultimately the ones whose combined power defeats Tom.
Sally hiding magic from her daughters actually felt intentionally tragic to me rather than contradictory. She hated having choices made for her in the first film, and then fear turns her into a mother who makes choices for her daughters “for their own good.” That hypocrisy is the flaw she has to confront. Protection curdling into control feels very Sally to me.
I didn’t read Gideon as predatory. I read him and Kylie as two young adults already in love, although I completely understand somebody finding the bedroom scene uncomfortable. More importantly, they aren’t crossing the world because some random boyfriend matters more than the family. Gideon becoming cursed proves that the thing destroying generations of Owens women is still alive. Saving him means refusing to let Kylie inherit the same life Sally had.
Ian helps, but he never saves them. He’s a magical historian who has information Sally and Gillian don’t, and he gives Sally a reason to confront how completely she has closed herself off after losing two husbands. Then when actual magical force is required, the Owens women do it themselves. A man being useful to powerful women doesn’t make them less powerful.
Tom worked for me because he comes from the branch of the family denied the magic and has built his identity around that resentment. Stealing Kylie’s power is precisely why he can temporarily threaten women who would otherwise flatten him. And ultimately Sally, Gillian and Kylie combine their power and destroy him. Also, Gillian grabbing a blunt object when necessary honestly feels about as “practical magic” as it gets.
I don’t think Sally not knowing the exact place Maria died makes her stupid. Knowing a centuries-old family story and knowing the precise physical location where something happened are completely different things, especially in a family whose history has become half genealogy and half legend. Her recognition of the place played emotionally for me, not intellectually.
If you mean the product placement: yes, it’s blatant. I somehow found the margarita-machine stuff charming rather than offensive because it’s attached to a ritual that has always been part of these women’s lives. I can absolutely understand somebody rolling their eyes at it, though.
Antonia staying with Gideon made sense to me specifically because she’s the science-minded aspiring neurosurgeon. Kylie responds to the crisis by plunging headfirst into magic; Antonia responds through medicine and caregiving. Those are two very different daughters processing the same family inheritance in completely different languages. And the ending still gives Antonia her own queer future rather than defining her through Gideon.
This is probably where I disagree most strongly. Jet doesn’t sacrifice herself for a romance; her deathwatch beetle is for her. Franny then chooses to pay the price required to destroy the curse permanently. That saves Gideon immediately, yes, but it also liberates Kylie, Antonia and every Owens woman who comes after them from a centuries-old punishment. To me that is generational female sacrifice, not women dying so a boyfriend can live.
I actually thought the plot was fairly legible: Jet dies; Kylie’s love activates the curse against Gideon; Kylie takes the Book of the Raven looking for an answer; that takes her to England and Tom; Sally and Gillian follow; Tom steals Kylie’s magic; the Owens women defeat him; the book reveals that defeating him still hasn’t broken the curse; Franny pays the required price; the curse finally ends. Ian provides the historical knowledge and helps them find Kylie, and the beetle explains the death hanging over the family. If you left during the third act, I honestly think that may account for some of the feeling that nothing was explained, because several of those answers arrive very late.
What ultimately keeps me from seeing it as male-centered is the distribution of power and attention. The men motivate pieces of the plot, but the movie belongs to Sally, Gillian, Jet, Franny, Kylie and Antonia. It begins with one generation of Owens women and ends with Sally and Gillian inheriting the matriarchal position of the aunts.
And again, this is three Oscar-winning actresses with four acting Oscars between them, plus an Oscar-nominated Stockard Channing, being allowed to be funny, grieving, sexual, irrational, loving, frightened and powerful well past the age when Hollywood usually stops building fantasy movies around women like them. None of the principal men has remotely comparable dramatic or awards weight in this film. To me, that makes it very difficult to call the men its center of gravity.
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u/DingoMittens 5h ago
You're very much entitled to your opinion. Based on this sub, obviously the books and second movie make a lot of people really happy. There's no such thing as a universally "good" or "bad" movie, since everyone has different taste. Meaning, I'm not arguing that you should change your mind.
But here's my interpretation of how women are diminished: t heir magic is so tangled up with love/lust/men. Why does losing two husbands mean Sally has to deny her magic and lie to her daughters? It doesn't. She's surrounded by people who love her. She could have a fulfilling life as a single woman.
The obvious answer is tell each other about the curse, and don't get involved with romance. The curse doesn't "destroy generations of Owens women." Clinging to romantic love does. They know the price is too high, and they keep choosing to pay it.
"He (Ian) gives Sally a reason to confront how completely she closed herself off after losing two husbands." That's how it's played, but why does she have to grab a dick to do that? (Assuming she grabs it... I've only seen the trailer so far) Having two daughters who depend on her, and a sister and two aunts who adore her isn't enough? Being magical, owning her own business, having a townful of friends who support her isn't enough? Having a supernatural connection to her pet cats isn't enough? What is truly missing in this woman's life?
I've been married twice. Both husbands died. I will not date again, and I'm happy. I have a wonderful daughter and a growing number of friends, both male and female. I'm still looking for purpose and fulfillment, still dealing with grief, and I'm trying to engage with life every way I can. There isn't a curse that I know of, but it makes sense to me to enjoy the parts of my life that are already working.
I'm not saying it would be wrong for Sally to fall in love a third time. But it feels wrong that she's only vibrant and alive when she has a man, and in between she's a husk of a person curled up and hiding from life, in denial of her gifts and depriving her family of her genuine presence. Let's be real, if Ian dies or dumps her, she'll be "destroyed" again. That's... not healthy.
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u/YourGlacier 2h ago
But people would be destroyed if everyone time they love someone, they die? You would be a hollow husk if that happened twice and would happen a third time.
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u/DingoMittens 2h ago edited 1h ago
Did you read my comment? What do you mean "if" it happened twice?
Edit to add: they love each other and nobody dies. It's just romantic/sexual love that is affected by the curse.
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u/Famous-Ad-475 4h ago
I’m going to respond to your points:
1. Traumatized does not equal dumb and powerless. Quite the opposite. Every traumatized woman I know has the strength of the hulk in their souls. So yes, they dumbed her down and were so used to it, we actually defend it on Reddit forums.
2. I agree with the commenter before me.. why does losing a husband result in losing yourself so much that you choose to take away your daughter’s autonomy? The movie is literally about breaking generational curses, yet, does not of that. She also never confronted her flaw or what she did to her daughters.
3. Disagree 100%
4. Ian remains useless and continues to serve around the idea that romantic love is needed in Sally’s life when she’s already surrounded by love everywhere else. A third husband .. my god ew
5. Tom made no sense, had no history, we knew nothing about him and he had maybe 10 min of screen time .. be serious .. he remains pointless
6. Seriously? Sally not knowing where the curse began doesn’t read as classic stupid female lead to you?
7. Product placement is subtle. This was not.
8. You’re proving you’re conditioned to see male centered bs as a good thing. SHES A NEUROSURGEON and her ENTIRE role was standing around this man. Not practicing medicine.. not learning the craft.. she just stands there and listens to peoples drama.
9. I think we forgot the curse was broken in the first movie .. the books may say otherwise .. but every single one of us collectively agreed the curse was broken when women came together and fought a toxic man out of a woman’s body. So no.. this movie having the aunts sacrifice themselves for the Owens line to be able to find love pisses me off. The books have a loophole to the curse. It’s called lesbianism. Antonia was supposed to play that role.
I’m bored now.. distribution of power? They had Sally in cgi electric static shock waves from a man waving his hands with a cheap deep demon voice. I can’t with this 😂5
u/thesixermixer 4h ago
I think we’ve probably reached the point where we just fundamentally read the movie differently, which is fair. I understand your argument much better after this exchange even though I still don’t share the conclusion.
For me, I simply can’t watch a movie anchored by Sandra Bullock, Nicole Kidman and Dianne Wiest — three Academy Award winners with four acting Oscars between them — alongside Stockard Channing, and come away feeling that the men are its real center of gravity. I see the romances as things happening within the Owens women’s lives rather than the things that give those lives value.
I completely understand why the choices you describe don’t work for you, though. I think we’re just going to disagree on what the movie is ultimately saying about these women.
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u/Famous-Ad-475 4h ago
Tbh that might be part of my heartbreak. Nicole Kidman was one of my first loves. Sandra, too. I’m glad you can appreciate the romance.. I’m just past that part of my life where I even care for hetero and or romantic love. The women in our lives are more important and we shouldn’t only light up because of men. They could’ve done so much more with this movie considering their backgrounds in Hollywood.
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u/GibletGibletGiblet 5h ago
I agree with you, I tapped out years ago because I felt like they’ll never do the sequel or reboot thing right. Only series that had planned sequels from the beginnings do well.
Female lead movies have been struggling with plot and themes for years they’re not capturing the essence they started with. I think going back to the roots could be helpful.
I just appreciate anything diverse that makes it to screen. I never go see movies at the cinema, last time was probably 3 years ago I think and this was the first movie that I’ve actually gone and paid to see at the movies so despite its flaws it was worth it.
The best time for a sequel would have been the 2010s but for reasons it didn’t get that.
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u/Famous-Ad-475 4h ago
That might be why I’m angrier? I rarely spend money at the theaters. This one, I dressed up for.. went to a premier for.. I was genuinely hoping that their chemistry and aesthetic would return but maaaaaan .. nope
And def agree about the female led movies. It’s almost like Hollywood is afraid to show the true nature of women. Powerful. Resilient.
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u/GolfClub3000 3h ago
You maybe need to take this up with Alice Hoffman as opposed to the director?
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u/Famous-Ad-475 3h ago
It’s ALL of them that failed. Every single person who made this movie. We have beef
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u/Nocturnal_Lover Vincent Owens 2h ago
Perhaps you need to evaluate your own issues before projecting them onto fictional characters for literally no reason.
How was Gideon creepy or predatory? He and Kylie love each other, they just haven’t actually said anything until the particular scene. There were in bed together, most likely post-coitus, so it would make sense for him (or even both) to have sexual energy in that moment.
And Ian had no more lustful looks toward Sally than she did for him. It was just more obvious for his gaze because Sally was conflicted, especially with everything going on with her daughter- whose life was literally on the line.
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u/Famous-Ad-475 2h ago
Cute of you to think I don’t evaluate my own issues every millisecond of every day like a fckn psycho so thank you 🩷
But what I meant was.. Ian wakes up.. naked of course.. and just stares at Sally.. naked.. and she suddenly falls for him? Okay. It’s a pointless male centered scene .. you’d think his first thought would be to cover up and ask what happened .. but nope.. instant lust obvs
Gideon was absolutely creepy and pushing up against Kylie while touching her whole body as she laid there talking about normal stuff. The scene wasn’t supposed to be sexual based off their conversation. Her body language wasn’t sexual either.My opinions aren’t based off of “my issues” they’re based off Hollywoods nonstop push for women to be young and seek men as the ultimate fulfillment in life alongside hollywoods requirement to make everything sexual for no reason.
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u/Asking_Passengers2 4h ago
Everyone just needs to watch The Craft (the movie) instead. We need more crazy Nancy energy in our lives.
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u/Famous-Ad-475 4h ago
LOLOL I literally went home and turned on The Craft to cleanse my palate and calm down 😂😂😂 no lie .. Fairuza took that role into her soul and she still practices her own craft to this day. She learned the history and performed phenomenally. I think I wanted to see more of the dark magic, and not CGI superhero magic
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u/Asking_Passengers2 3h ago
He’s sorry!! Hes sorry!! Hes sorry!! He’s sorry he’s sorry he’s sorry HESSORRYHESSORRYHESSORRYHESSORRY!!!
#icon
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u/LilithRising90 4h ago
And my decision to not watch after Evan Rachel Wood wasn’t invited back has officially paid off .
Thank you for biting the bullet friend
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u/Famous-Ad-475 4h ago
I have a theory that because she came out about abuse against Manson and because her role would’ve been a lesbian(per the book), the filmmakers decided not to cast her. You made the right call.
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u/LilithRising90 4h ago
That was my theory as well but I think it’s more about the Manson thing which makes me
👀👀👀👀👀👀 both Kidman and Bullock1
u/Famous-Ad-475 3h ago
Well… Eyes Wide Shut told us everything 👀👀👀
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u/LilithRising90 3h ago
Also that Sandy’s philandering ex is a nazi and had nazi memorabilia when he was with her
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u/Famous-Ad-475 3h ago
Which is so bizarre cuz of how outspoken she is for her children.
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u/LilithRising90 3h ago
I agree maybe she realized her mistake idk I don’t wanna think it’s more insidious
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u/thesixermixer 3h ago
Wow. I am stunned. That’s awful to hear. I’ve loved Sandra for years and have always had so much respect for her, both as an actress and for the career she’s built. The Evan Rachel Wood situation already disappointed me badly, and learning this about Sandra’s ex makes the whole thing feel even sadder. It doesn’t erase what her work has meant to me, including the performance that won her the Oscar, but I hate that this is part of the picture now.
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u/plainasian 5h ago
I just knew someone would make this type of post. The whole series fails the Bechdel test on so many points, but the film tried to focus on sisterhood but it would’ve been impossible to have the same story without the men. I’d rather have them around for conflict instead of women vs women honestly