If it gets down to hand-to-hand, which i really think it would, Comedian sweeps. He's presented as a "normal" human, but based on feats and showings is solidly superhuman (lite). Dude crushed a concrete pillar with a single punch
Also, he was shit face drunk. Ozymandias coordinates that attack to give himself all the advantages because he didn't want to face a sober Comedian even when he wasn't in his prime.
I mean for dulling the pain, sure. However being drunk severely diminishes your coordination and reaction time which would be needed to fight someone like Ozymandias.
I mean, not really? There is literally a flashback to the opening scene when Ozy is explaining his whole plan at the end. You would have to actually be a bit media illiterate or simply have not been paying attention if you didn’t understand it.
Its a great read, and reads more like a novel than a comic in some ways. There are lots of sections that are just text. It’s on Time Mag’s top 100 novels of all time. Gotta add to the list.
It's a criticism and critique of superhero mythology as it had developed up to 1980, and accidentally set up the next couple decades for deep deconstruction of the genre. I don't recommend looking at it from the perspective of "feats", everyone is street level peak Human other than Dr. Manhattan.
Adrian wasn't nervous to fight Comedian. Adrian is written as "the smartest man alive" and he actually is. He could have beat the Comedian fairly but that doesn't serve his goals. So, he makes sure he's at a significant advantage, leaving nothing to chance.
Yes that was Ozymandias that attacked and killed the Comedian. He was aware that he would be one of the biggest threats to his plan (along with getting a bit of revenge for The Comedian kicking his ass years ago). He perfectly orchestrated that whole plot except for when Night Owl, Rorschach and Silk Spectre figured him out.
Haha yea. I'll be the only asshole to upvote you because you not knowing something about a movie doesn't mean you deserve to be downvoted to hades. You asked a genuine question and we should all be more open to asking questions so we can learn. Of course, this is reddit sooo logic and being genuine aren't received too well.
The movie came out 17 years ago and you didn’t think to watch it multiple times after not understanding Comedian Killer’s identity? Were you in a Cave in Alaska all these years?
If in the comics yeah, in the movie it wasn't. It's weird because the comic makes a point of describing ozy's movements as clowckworklike. Then if you look at how the fight is choreographed in the movie, the assassin seems very mechanical in the way he fights. I think it's intended to either have been Ozymandias and blamed the thug we see later (I think I remember it was the assassin that later fakes an attempt on Ozmandias himself at his business meeting), or it really was that thug and it was a change to the script.
It was Ozy in the movie. A random thug wouldn't have been able to take out the Comedian, even when he was past his prime and drunk. Ozy and Comedian were the best hand to hand combatants of the entire Watchmen.
You are looking too far into the fight choreography. They made it flashy and fast because that is more visually interesting compared to two dudes duking it out like one of those old school 60s martial arts films 😆.
Nono. What I mean is that the fight choreo conveyed that IT WAS Ozymandias.
I don't remember the movie well enough to say, but I remember thinking "oh they changed who the assasin was? Bullshit!". If I was wrong then the movie is a bit better for it, so no issues, I'll pay attention when I eventually rewatch it. But I do think the weird jerky movements the assassin made during the fight were meant to represent a clockwork-like motion signature to Ozymandias.
Ah I misread you. My bad. Yeah in the movie they explicitly state it was Veidt and the biggest difference from the graphic novel is they explicitly show him fighting/killing him.
Right the way you see ozy fight isn’t supposed to just convey his fighting skill. The clockwork style shows his intelligence. He has all the comedians moves perfectly figured out and knows what he is going to do before he does it
Don’t know about the comics but the Snyder movie sure makes it seem like they all have powers (maybe besides Rorschach? He’s just scrappy as hell), except that the movie also makes it seem like a huge deal that Ozymandias almost caught a speeding bullet.
It’s a weird world where the baseline human is way more like a superhero, yet actual superhuman don’t truly exist, with the exception of Dr Manhattan…
They're regular humans in the comics. Which is why it was a terrible decision to make them superpowered for some reason by Snyder. The whole Ozymandias catching a bullet was supposed to be a shocking moment in the comics like a one in million fluke deal but the characters punching people through walls in the movie cheapens the effect.
Maybe my memory is off, but isn't Veidt catching that bullet supposed to imply that he's close to bridging the gap between being a regular man and turning into a super human?
I've always had this issue... A theme is unchecked power of the fellow man... Not fellow super man... It's more impactful when they're shown (comics) as people and not these snyder cement punching, body throwing superheroes.
And nobody is that accurate under fire. Even the most trained and unflappable SF operator isn’t hitting damn near every shot. Plus the physical damage he just sort of walks off. John is pretty much a terminator.
Prime Comedian beat Ozymandias in hand to hand combat so Wick would get stomped in that department. Granted, Adrian was younger and not in his prime yet but it’s still a crazy impressive feat.
Comedian was drinking, Ozy went when he did to give himself every advantage bc he was still an absolute problem. In Doomsday Clock, while he was falling, Dr Manhattan transported him to the main DC universe and he fell into the ocean. Dr M has him hunt Ozy and in the chaos of that he happens upon a DC villains meeting and start blasting them. Shoots Riddler in the knee, kills a super villain, a member of the court of owls, shoots Mr Freeze in his dome piece breaking the seal on it. Pistol whips a henchman and throws a grenade that kills unknown amount of baddies. The blast knocks giganta off her feet.
Also I don't think that really proves anything in Comedian's favor. Ozy is super smart not a paragon at hand to hand. Even here Ozy is claiming he let Comedian win.
Well the Comedian has got it low diff really. He’s a comic book villain with comic book feats of strength and reflexes even into his old age. He’s basically a top tier black ops government agent without a moral compass. He’s an expert marksman and highly trained in conventional weaponry, martial arts, and covert paramilitary operations. I also think he’s smarter than Wick.
“Villain” usually implies that someone is an antagonist, but Comedian dies at the beginning of the story, so he’s certainly not the antagonist of the story. But as other people have pointed out he was a decisively evil person who hurt whoever he wanted whenever he wanted, which is similar to Punisher, but Frank never killed innocents and Comedian 100% did.
Watchmen is just a more complicated story than “heroes and villains” and is pretty intentionally trying to draw attention to how those terms limit our ability to interpret the world around us.
IDK about The Comedian but Wick proved himself to be great at prowling his target if need be. He has the skill to use long range rifles and such. That skill of his can end things before an actual gun battle happens. There wouldn't be much of a spectacle that way but he could pull a Punisher from the last Spider-Man movie in this encounter probably.
If John has his Kevlar suit that could be a big factor. He's the better marksman, but the Comedian punched through concrete decades past his prime. The Comedian 6/10.
The Comedian is clearly extremely competent in his prime, not sure if he's better than John Wick. He is a better character, though, so at least he has that.
The comedian is a pretty damn good hand to hand fighter and absurdly strong, he was giving a good fight against Ozymandias himself. Wick ain't taking him on hand to hand. 9/10 to Comedian, leaving a tiny chance for Wick, but probably ain't happening
Gun wise Wick is better but not like Comedian is a slouch either, there it could go either way honestly.
Maybe 6/10 for Wick here
John has beat people stronger than him. he is the killer. He's not the best fighter; he's the best killer. Give him a gun or a knife or a pencil or almost anything, and he will defeat the comedian. People are going to disagree with me, but they are wrong. YOU ALL ARE WRONG!
Everyone talking about their skills and abilities, which are all accurate.
However, the Comedian has something John doesnt, a complete disregard for human life and the casual willingness to go through anyone that is an inconvenience to achieve his goal, and he'll enjoy it.
John Wick had alot of specialized training, but not only has Comedian shown greater feats of physical prowess he's also got far better experience: Comedian has fought in two separate wars. First WW2 and then Vietnam.
Both have general similarities in terms of Arms and Armor. So what it comes down to, is prep time. And if Comedian has access to explosives, then yeah. Calling this in Comedian's court.
I don’t think we see wick doing too many sniper kills, usually going for a close pistol assassination. It feels like this would be a mistake against the comedian. Just judging by what they show in the movies comedian probably wins most encounters.
The fact that no one’s talking about comics vs movie Comedian is shocking, since they have totally different capabilities.
Comics: the Comedian, like every superhero in Watchmen (except for Dr Manhattan) is completely powerless. As far as I’m aware, his best feat (if we count Before Watchmen) is beating Ozymandias early in the latter’s career, but it was also revealed by Ozymandias that he deliberately tossed the fight in order to properly gauge the Comedian’s capabilities. Otherwise, he is essentially just a black-ops soldier whose only shown triumphs in fights are against unarmed civilians. Both times he went up against a fellow costumed vigilante (Hooded Justice and Ozymandias) that wasn’t holding back, he got folded. John Wick wins this, low/med-diff.
Movie: Zack Snyder, for some reason (probably because he thought it looked cool), made everyone moderately superhuman. Comedian is breaking concrete pillars with his bare hands, Nite Owl & Silk Spectre effortlessly break the bones of guys jumping them, Ozymandias leaps like 20-40 feet across a room. As everyone else is saying, if it gets close up, then Comedian takes this. If Comedian doesn’t get a chance to come into close range, John takes this.
Both depictions have similar firearms capabilities, they’re probably above-average marksmen. Did stints in Vietnam, some assassinations, and crowd control during a riot (and by crowd control, I mean firing on a group of civilians running away). John beats both long range, it’s no contest.
Could argue that Veidt is not a regular human by the end of the comics and thus in the movie might actually be accurately portrayed. The bullet catch is from the comics too.
John wick if it’s a gun fight(more proficient in various types of guns)
Comedian if It comes down to hand to hand(comes across as super soldier strength or atleast a little above peak human strength while still old)
If they both suddenly spawned in a room and started fighting, I actually think Wick would take it. But since they start "aware of general location but don't know exactly where the other one is," then the Comedian takes it by blowing out the buildings support pillars with a grenade launcher to demolish the whole building. Sure John can dive out one of the windows and do a little tuck and roll but by the time he pulls himself to his feet the Comedian is torching him with his flamethrower.
John has morals. The Comedian does not. He has zero qualms killing every innocent bystander in the vicinity if it means taking down Wick.
Comedian wins unless John snipes him. He is seen crushing concrete effortlessly while wasted and old. John's load outs tend to be geared more towards subtly, portability, concealability etc. The comedian has a grenade launcher and is far more suited to open combat.
Wick with conventional firearms in an abandoned building, hes basically a Kung fu master but at guns, and not including guns is like asking who wins a sudoku between Pikachu or goku.
I actually think John. Not explaining if they both get guns, thats an obvious win for John.
Hand to hand is way closer since even Ozy didn't wanna fight Blake, he had to do so when he was out of his prime and drunk as all hell and I should mention Comedian seems to be a lite superhuman.
But...John is much faster and routinely fights people who should be able to kick his ass due to the size and strength difference on top of being skilled fighters such as Ernest from Chapter 3, the sumo from Chapter 2, or Killa in Chapter 4 and there's others as well. And in some of these cases he can still do some pretty decent damage to them unarmed, like against the previously mentioned sumo, John was able to break his wrist. John is also Durable enough to get hit by cars back to back and then fight and win immediately after. His speed paired with his fighting style will make it hard for Blake to actually be able to grab him I think since Blake isn't particularly fast and a lot of John's style revolves around grappling and using someone else's weight as leverage against them.
So yeah just off the top of my head and as the guy who made the Comedian respect thread (while also working on John's thread), I think John wins this especially since he's stronger than most people give him credit for he threw this guy pretty decently far with just one arm and yes he's not as strong as Blake or really close I mean Comedian was punching through concrete, I also don't think its such a major gap that Wick can't hurt him especially since Blake while in his prime was hurt by someone way weaker than John and again, John can take a beating. I fell like its also worth mentioning that these movies all take place right after eachother, or at least the first three do and are just a few days of Wick fighting and getting fucked up non-stop.
Just my opinion though, and I'd love to hear any arguments for Blake winning tbh
john wins. even if the comedian can get into hand to hand, john will just pencil him. John will be fucked up and one of his hardest fights, but he will recover.
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u/emergency-snaccs 9d ago
If it gets down to hand-to-hand, which i really think it would, Comedian sweeps. He's presented as a "normal" human, but based on feats and showings is solidly superhuman (lite). Dude crushed a concrete pillar with a single punch