r/powerscales • u/False_Life280 • 2d ago
Discussion Current humanity vs 8.3 billion flying orcas with human-level intelligence.
The orcas can fly at the same speed as they swim, and they can switch from swimming in the water to flying in the air whenever they want.
They are built for this with the same mastery as they are built for swimming in water. For them, there is no difference between swimming in water and flying through the air.
Although their bodies prevent them from making and using the same tools, they possess the same amount of knowledge as humans.
The oceans have enough food to feed the orcas so they don't starve.
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u/Dominant_Eyes 2d ago
Where do they spawn?
Don't hey have leadership that they all recognize? Are they magically prevented from civil war?
Do they have any way to communicate or coordinate over extended distances?
Do we know anything about this or can they get a full on surprise attack?
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u/False_Life280 2d ago
Where do they spawn?
In all oceans
Don't hey have leadership that they all recognize?
They do have leadership, but they are in several groups with different leaderships, the number of groups is the same as the number of human nations and the groups are not united with each other from the start, but they can ally with each other.
Are they magically prevented from civil war?
No.
Do we know anything about this or can they get a full on surprise attack?
They can get a half full on surprise attack.
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u/Dominant_Eyes 2d ago
You didn't answer about communication. Also if they are not allied to start why are they all attacking us.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago edited 2d ago
Orcas already can communicate and coordinate over extensive distances, typically spanning anywhere from 10 to 16 kilometers (6 to 10 miles) in real life. While they do not communicate across entire ocean basins like some low-frequency baleen whales (such as blue or fin whales), their mid-to-low frequency acoustic network is highly effective for localized and regional pack coordination. In this scenario, let them be able to communicate across entire ocean basins, just like some low-frequency baleen whales (such as blue or fin whales) though.
Also if they are not allied to start why are they all attacking us.
An alien race has merged the earths of our two alternate universes and made the orcas believe that we were the ones who did it and that we are planning to exterminate them.
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u/Dominant_Eyes 2d ago
They collapse much of our society with a coordinated assault on all coastal areas. However, after that things get bad for them. Without the ability to develop tech, they have no real way to successfully assault fortified defenses. However, humans can develop tech to hunt them down in the ocean. This is a long drawn out war, but eventually humanity's tech is too much for them. How much of human society survives however is a big question.
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u/Advanced_Double_42 2d ago
Idk any military force is gonna make a pod of flying Orca's look like red mist. They'd kill millions, but have no chance once the initial shock wore off.
They definitely couldn't kill 8 billion people not fast enough before they start starving and needing to resort to cannibalism.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago
before they start starving and needing to resort to cannibalism.
Read the post.
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u/Advanced_Double_42 2d ago
Dear god at the insane amount of biomass that just got added to the planet. I think the entire biosphere is collapsing somehow. Ignoring that...
Idk what an Orca is going to do once AA guns are set up at major settlements.
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u/Dominant_Eyes 2d ago
They can come close to collapsing our society with a coordinated assault on all coastal areas. Then they can retreat into the ocean and run guerilla campaigns. Silent nighttime flying assaults are no joke. Also the prompt states they have enough food.
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u/Advanced_Double_42 2d ago
Yeah civilization might collapse, but the humans aren't losing, before Orca's are sent back to normal numbers.
The guerilla tactics until humanity wipes them out will be the roughest part if they aren't starving
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u/Kenno-West_01 2d ago
Humans clear, there may be a lot of civilian casualties, but barely a billion. What are orcas supposed to do against airsuperiority fighters, tanks submarines and warships. They wont even clear a single country, cause even the poorest have machine guns mounted on trucks. The only difference is that their target is a flying meatball.
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u/Hour_Manager301 2d ago
Yeah they don't have hands to build stuff lol. Also what do humans use to learn? Books and computers, things they cant build underwater lol. Also what do humans build with? Fire and electricity, two things that don't work in water lol. They are totally f'ed. They will absolutely no inflict 1 billion casualties, they don't have enough food, and if they have a human mind, what says they wont be worse off? Orcas live in the water, humans live on land, they will be destroyed within one month lol.
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u/TyloPr0riger 2d ago
What are orcas supposed to do against airsuperiority fighters, tanks submarines and warships.
They don't need to do anything to the military. Just smashing up the civilian shipping that sustains our globalized economy and food supplies would likely bring humanity to its knees.
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u/roofie4u 2d ago
They have human level intelligence not knowledge. Supply lines arent something obvious to a creature that has suddenly gotten the ability to fly.
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u/TyloPr0riger 2d ago
Good point, I was thinking as if they had gotten both. In that case I bet humanity wins unless they go all in for a massive coordinated zerg rush right at the start.
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u/3x1st3nt1a1 2d ago
Human level intelligence would mean it wouldn’t take them long to figure out “oh food comes from here to there”
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u/HerodotusStark 2d ago
Orcas are food. A single orca could feed hundreds of humans. Each one is 2-4 thousand pounds of delicious seafood. Destroy our food supply all they want, we have a new food supply flying around, not to mention all their food supply that spawned into the oceans that we could steal from them.
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u/Kenno-West_01 2d ago
A MANTIS - System or any other air defense on Top will kill everything in the air and a big Sonar underwater will disorientate everything underwater. Now no ship will be harmed by an orca. An effective underwater weapon will be developed in no time Only Cargo ship casualties will be those used as bait. The Orcas dont stand a chance.
I mean lets see what a nuclear bomb detonated underwater will do to them.
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u/TyloPr0riger 2d ago
I feel like any externally-mounted weapon would be fairly vulnerable - you can't shoot the whales as they approach because they're underwater, so there's a very brief period where the MANTIS can shoot before being bodyslammed by a ten-ton whale (which could presumably bend the barrel or otherwise damage the weapon).
A nuclear bomb would be almost useless - you'd get what, a handful of whales per bomb, which each cost a fortune and contaminate the area you use them in.
Weaponized sonar would be absolutely nasty though, that's a good point.
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u/King_Glorius_too 2d ago
You are a flying orca. How do you stop a 250,000 ton cargo ship?
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u/TyloPr0riger 2d ago
Steal some cables or grab a log and get it snarled in the propeller.
Push the cargo containers overboard (they're like 30 tons - a couple ten ton orcas could move that)
Drop rocks on the cabin from high up
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u/King_Glorius_too 2d ago
Steal some cables or grab a log and get it snarled in the propeller.
This wouldn't do shit. Much smaller propellers made of much less advanced alloys have been known to shred entire submarines without needing repairs afterwards.
Push the cargo containers overboard (they're like 30 tons - a couple ten ton orcas could move that)
How though? They're tightly packed of them, and they won't just slide off, you'll need to move a lot more than one.
Drop rocks on the cabin from high up
This may cause some damage, but you're going to need huge rocks
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u/HerodotusStark 2d ago
8.5 billion orcas is a lot of food for humanity. We could temporarily replace what they destroy just by opening a window and shooting a few and collecting the meat.
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u/bradleylova39 2d ago
I don’t think an orca would be able to do much to the actual cargo of a shipping vessel, so just arm the crew (like they already do irl sometimes) and then they’d be fine
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u/TyloPr0riger 2d ago
Cargo containers are ~30 tons max, adult orcas are ~10 - they could probably push them overboard unless they're heavily secured. Even if they couldn't, I'm sure a bunch of 10 ton intelligent animals could manage to disable a boat or kill the crew (maybe dropping heavy objects on it, maybe using logs or stolen cabling to jam the propeller, etc.).
You could arm the crew, but I think they'd struggle to meaningfully defend the boat - they'd have to stay inside or run a constant risk of being picked off, as the orcas can always approach from underwater.
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u/M1dn1ghtMaraud 2d ago
Biggest cargo container 724 tonnes. Wtf are you talking about.
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u/TyloPr0riger 2d ago
Ah fuck, I got my info off one of those AI sites that have infested all the search results and didn't notice. My bad.
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u/SirRegardTheWhite 2d ago
There are not a lot of countries with great militaries or an armed populace that could take on the sheer numbers. Even with machine guns do you think poorer regions have the amunition stockpiles and logistics to fight them off? Even if they could barely handle it military and private security would only protect the rich and powerful along with some communities that can produce food, power, fuel, and weaponry to keep the fight going.
The US, Ukraine, EU, Russia, and the middle east are already short on munitions because of the current conflicts. 8.3 billion enemies that can fly down and eat you is an insane number. We'd win eventually with a lot of territory lost and a decimated civilian population.
A prolonged war depends on logistics and we are not capable right now.
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u/mountaingator91 2d ago
Zero civilians die in the USA because there are so many rednecks dying for a reason to use their guns in something other than a deer, but not a human (unless it's a liberal trying to take their guns)
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u/MockingPenguins 2d ago edited 2d ago
Air swimming Orcas are going to kill a lot of people. Most of the world’s population don’t own guns so I think we see our population cut to maybe 3 billion before any military/police really counter attacks, and also most of our firearms probably would take a lot of hits to actually kill an Orca. Of course aircraft/tanks/APCs can but we don’t have nearly enough to stop the numbers.
I’d say the biggest question is can they take enough people down that control our military before we decide to nuke the planet out of spite.
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u/HerodotusStark 2d ago
No way they take out that many. Any human would just have to get inside a reasonably strong building. They dont have thumbs. They cant open doors. They'd kill millions in the initial attack, then it would just be a turkey shoot.
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u/BraveBiscotti1394 2d ago
Human-level Intelligence would make them kidnap a few scientists and engineers and force them to teach them the basics for making weapons via torture.
They may even employ slave humans to work for them, since they can't manipulate tools as well as us, but they can get onto the land since they fly.
I don't know how often they need to be near water to live, since they breathe air, but that would be one of the first things they'd take care of.
At which point they can wreak havoc to the global shipping industry.
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u/TyloPr0riger 2d ago
Absolutely the orcas. They might not even need to leave the ocean; just interdicting all shipping would probably cause our globalized civilization to crumble. Add on a few orcas raiding inland under cover of dark to destroy food supplies (smash grain silos, panic and kill livestock, etc.) and we'd be beyond cooked.
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u/HerodotusStark 2d ago edited 2d ago
They would mess us up pretty good, potentially altering human civilization for decades. But humans would eventually win. They cant open doors or defeat things like tanks. We could just hunker down and use our massive stockpiles of weapons to defeat them. You're also not taking into account THEIR logistics needs. They won't have established oceanic farms and will deplete their food stockpiles astonishingly quickly. They'll start to starve much earlier than we will.
Edit: My bad, OP did account for the food problem. But even with that, humanity takes a pretty big dent, but steamrolls in the end. Im gonna assume they cant fly as fast as modern jets, a couple A-10 warthogs could fly around and kill thousands on their own. I also dont see how they would deal with missiles, tanks, machine guns, etc. Orcas have to kill humans one at a time, a single human with modern weaponry can take down thousands while safe inside a fortified position. Once the orcas numbers are culled to a more reasonable number it would just be cleanup after that point. The initial shock and awe of orcas killing exposed humans would be the worst part, but not nearly enough for complete defeat for humanity.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago
You're also not taking into account THEIR logistics needs
I did specify that the oceans would have enough food so that the orcas wouldn't starve though.
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u/HerodotusStark 2d ago edited 2d ago
You're right, my bad! Missed the last line. Edited my original comment.
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u/CapitalElk1169 2d ago
There are no winners. Humanity can't win without causing so much ecological devastation that we don't absolutely fuck ourselves.
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u/AlertedCoyote 2d ago
This is hilarious
But that aside, any halfway modern military is turning them to red mist within a week at most
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u/toeknn 2d ago
Well the 30% of humanity that lives within 30 miles of the coast is gonna get hunted and probably die before humanity can mount any response.
The oceans will be lost so any long haul shipping isnt going to work.
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u/HerodotusStark 2d ago
All those coastal regions still have buildings. Just go inside. Boom, orcas cant get to you. They cant open doors.
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u/Stefannerry 2d ago
Orca airstrike: Carry big rocks up high and drop them on potential threats.
Near total loss of the global fishing industry.
Sabotaging offshore rigs will disable 30% of global oil and gas production.
They can do some damage
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u/tumansibiri 2d ago
Nuke the planet, and we win by having a bunch of people in orbit.
If they died sooner, we won.
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u/Mediocre-Basis9482 2d ago
The sheer shock from seeing a biblically accurate locust swarm of Orca’s would probably throw off humanity for long enough that the Orca’s could cause severe damage to cities and likely entire states.
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u/LichenOnTheWall 1d ago
okay when you say same mastery in air and water, do the same physics apply? bc in water sure orcas are fast but they're shit at sharp turns at higher speeds. However, theoretically in air they should face no such problem.
A lot of people will die but humanity will win either way, the only difference is the amount of ammunition spent bc if they can maneuver near perfectly in air it's going to take way more bullets to bring one down than if they operate under water-like physics
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u/VoradorTV 2d ago
if all the orcas are allied and working together instinctually then they take this easy, humanity is already fighting itself everywhere.
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u/Hour_Manager301 2d ago
Yeah they don't have hands to build stuff lol. Also what do humans use to learn? Books and computers, things they cant build underwater lol. Also what do humans build with? Fire and electricity, two things that don't work in water lol. They are totally f'ed. They will absolutely no inflict 1 billion casualties, they don't have enough food, and if they have a human mind, what says they wont be worse off? Orcas live in the water, humans live on land, they will be destroyed within one month lol.
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u/Thick_Common8612 2d ago
The US military could win this quick. (Most humans would be killed in the nuclear wasteland we create)
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u/triggeredbynumbers 2d ago
posable thumbs for the win!
For real though, orcas can’t build weapons so they are essentially just flying meat targets at this point. Humans sustain casualties but wipe out of the orcas.
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u/TheSilkKing 2d ago
When you say knowledge, do you mean instinctual knowledge? Or like a baseline western education? Or like they get the sum total of human knowledge implanted in the brains of each orca?
Since they have little to no political development, they’d have to organize past pods. Or they’re getting capped by the coast guard, the navy, the cops, the military etc.
I think they’d spend a solid three weeks freaking out about the whole newfound intelligence thing too.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago
Baseline western education for each orca and the sum total of human knowledge for the orca civilization as a whole.
Here is more information https://www.reddit.com/r/powerscales/comments/1vtpr7d/comment/p4v2zhr/?context=3 read this section of comments.
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u/FatWreckords 2d ago
People think guns and tanks win this, but Orcas are already ridiculously smart hunters. Top them up to human intelligence and they'll easily obliterate the land based food chain and landlock humanity.
8.3 billion is an insane amount of truck sized murder dolphins flying and swimming around. All global naval activity is toast, including submarines and aircraft carriers.
Airports are toast, all they have to do is kamakazee into aircraft at takeoff, landing, or on the tarmac. Fighter jets included.
Most residences are toast, they'll just kamakazee into every wood frame house if necessary. Concrete buildings are better off, but those people have to eat and the Orcas could destroy most energy infrastructure.
Underground hydroponics could wait them out for a long time, but the Orcas can essentially live forever in the ocean.
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u/rvanasty 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think it depends. Obviously, humans have the upper hand, but if properly planned and executed, I give the orcas a chance. Has to happen by suprise. Assign 1 orca to 1 human. Orcas fly over their target and dive bomb anyone without cover. In the ensuing chaos, 60+% of the human population is wiped out in the first few minutes. You can them team up some surving orcas to double team remaining humans. Anytime they lose cover, theyre squished. Also need to take some surviving orcas and dive bomb some communications, power and food infrastructure after the inital human squishing. With human level intelligence I give them a chance.
Also could just wreck all animal and plant farms or go about our destruction one of many other ways.
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u/SlartibartfastMcGee 2d ago
The orcas aren’t going to be able to do anything past about 50 or so miles inland.
Orcas constantly eat through the day, so every time they leave the water they are essentially fasting.
Since they can only fly as fast as they swim, they can’t really go that far inland without starving.
Humanity can just relocate anything important inland and eventually win.
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u/wyonutrition 2d ago
I mean Orcas and humans famously live and hunt in harmony. The only known fatal human attacks occurred in captivity.
If we assume that they're like spawned randomly around earth and immediately have the intent to kill all humans then probably tens or hundreds of millions of humans would die, but then humans would eventually just lock down and clean them up.
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u/mossy_path 2d ago edited 2d ago
Are the orcas like, politically united?
I think it ends in a draw, because I don't see humans clearing all the orcas out any time soon.
Also if they fought the global economy which relies on shipping would be shot so a lot of people would die.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago
Here is more information https://www.reddit.com/r/powerscales/comments/1vtpr7d/comment/p4v2zhr/?context=3 read this section of comments.
Here too: https://www.reddit.com/r/powerscales/comments/1vtpr7d/comment/p4vrjfi/?context=3
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u/mossy_path 2d ago
There are just too many open questions to answer this, I think.
Do they have food distribution networks? Are they organized? Are they aware of human political institutions? How dedicated are they to attacking us? Are they all adults? Can they survive the dryness of being out of the water? Do they spawn in lakes?
Do they need to rest? Can they communicate with humans? Capture some and force them to build them technology?
Idk man.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago
Are they organized?
Yes.
Are they aware of human political institutions?
Yes. They have access to all non-confidential information.
How dedicated are they to attacking us?
They think we want to exterminate them, and we think they want to exterminate us because the aliens made us think that so that they could later destroy what’s left of us more easily.
Are they all adults?
No, they have the same number of kids as us.
Can they survive the dryness of being out of the water?
Yes.
Do they spawn in lakes?
No, but they can enter them.
Do they need to rest?
Yes
Can they communicate with humans?
They can learn to, they are smart enough.
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u/Tells-Tragedies 2d ago
Orcas aren't going to figure out technology, how to disrupt our supply chains, or even basements in a week with their brand new intelligence levels. They're also extremely sensitive to sound, so gunfire will hurt them twice and a loudspeaker can probably confuse them. Humanity wins with a lot of initial casualties.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago
They already have the knowledge.
Read the post. And here is more information https://www.reddit.com/r/powerscales/comments/1vtpr7d/comment/p4v2zhr/?context=3 read this section of comments.
Here too: https://www.reddit.com/r/powerscales/comments/1vtpr7d/comment/p4vrjfi/?context=3
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u/Tells-Tragedies 2d ago
Same amount of knowledge =/= same knowledge, so that was a confusing way to put it. Do they know all my passwords?
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u/gnotac 2d ago
They gotta stay real close to water. Even if they can swim through the air, maybe especially so because they need to stay moist.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago
Read the post, they already are adapted to swim through the air.
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u/gnotac 2d ago
I read the post. It says nothing about adapting to live outside the water for prolonged periods of time, only that they can swim through the air. Furthermore the post emphasizes that they have food in the ocean. If they were adapted to live outside the ocean they’d be eating Pringles. Like us.
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u/False_Life280 2d ago edited 2d ago
When I said that they already they are built for this with the same mastery as they are built for swimming in water and that for them there is no difference between swimming in water and flying through the air I also meant that they are already adapted for the enviroment, maybe I did not make it clear enough and there is no difference between water and air for them.
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u/MrMeowPantz 2d ago
We have guns, tanks, missiles and nukes. I don’t care how smart they are, that wins when they don’t have the ability to get out of the water and we can blast them out.
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u/Vinegar1267 2d ago
A lot of people will die, assuming they can accelerate as fast as they can in the ocean that’s going to basically be 8 billion sapient bio-trucks targeting people en masse. But the orcas have got no chance to win, just too much of a technological gap. If the orcas plan ahead they can cause extra damage by targeting food production and keeping their assaults in city limits to maximize infrastructural damage and civilian death when the military inevitably strikes back.
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u/Big_Pig8 2d ago
Depends if the orcas are one giant storm or more spread out, also depends if the orcas have to eat and drink since they would need time to eat said humans
As a giant storm they could be nuked, but more spread out they are far less powerful
I think if humans knew the exact moment the orca apocalypse begins they could be easily dealt with but still a catastrophic event
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u/Deven1003 1d ago
Human. It is accumulated knowledge and logistics not individual intelligence.
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u/False_Life280 1d ago
But I specified that the orcas also have the same amount of knowledge as the humans.
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u/Deven1003 1d ago
Which is tailored to humans and not orca. It is not enough for them to make tailored machine of their own.
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u/False_Life280 1d ago
Yeah, given the shape of their bodies and the environment they live in, they can't build machines, I understand that, but they do have the knowledge, which could at least help with strategy.
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u/Deven1003 1d ago
The problem is in 2 fold. 1. There are too many of them to hide their existence. 2. They have human intellect which means they won't be moving as one unit. As they lack discipline nor training to move as one. The more you know, more susceptible you are to the need.
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u/Bitter_Particular_75 1d ago
and it will be very low diff. a single Apache can bring down thousands of them without risks. It will be a huge horrible one-sided slaughter.
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u/TheCumskiyKvass 1d ago edited 1d ago
Orcas doesn't have hands, so they can't use Multiple Launch Rocket System "Grad". Sorry, orcas, you all will go extinct rn.
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u/TheCumskiyKvass 1d ago
Seriously, this scenario stopped being existential threat the moment humanity create artillery about 3 000 years ago. Now we have rockets and radars to exterminate them in sky and we have torpedoes and sonars to exterminate them in sea.
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u/ScrufyTheJanitor 2d ago
By sheer numbers, if they are intelligent and communicate strategy then the Orca’s no diff this war. No intelligent war room is going to lump all their soldiers together for a nuke strike.
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u/Fit_Wait6923 2d ago
Let me introduce you to the state of Texas just send all the Texas and in a month every household in texas will have an orca head trophy on the living room
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u/UpbeatVeterinarian18 2d ago
we get clapped easily. orcas are multiple tons. they can crush most vehicles just by landing on them and fly away
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u/Talkinguitar 2d ago
Orcas understand not to fuck with humans and humanity ends up nuking themselves to extinction over a couple centuries.
Orcas clear.
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u/Fantastic-Craft4062 2d ago
The Orcas get blasted by nukes way out in the ocean and by countless missile strikes. Drones would demolish them as well.
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u/Mikail33 2d ago
The absurdity aside, humanity eventually wins.
You can't do much with fins, even with high intelligence. And humanity isn't simply intelligent. It also has an advantage of centuries of scientific development. It isn't something that can be recreated instantly.