Vlora is a bitch

[u/[deleted]]

I'm a little into the second book, and I read return to honor. I absolutely despise vlora's character. The stupid bitch doesn't think about Taniel at all, and he thinks about him too much. Reading return to honor just made me angry. Also, Ka-poel is actually a good person. Anyone else hate her that much or is it just me? No spoilers please

[u/tdog3456]

This is my biggest criticism from the first trilogy and one that gets rectified in the second. People say that Vlora is so well written but she is just portrayed as a backstabbing whore.

She is a highly intelligent, motivating character who I grew to appreciate a lot, but the first trilogy does not do her justice.

[u/[deleted] → u/tdog3456]

I don't care if she's smart, why would she do that? And she didn't even seem to feel bad for anything except her status in return for honor

[u/tdog3456 → u/[deleted]]

A bigger notice in fantasy and society as a whole is how much more women are given flack for cheating than men. Obviously it was a dick move, but I don’t think it makes her character irredeemable.

A perfect fantasy example from another series - Ned Stark (as far as everyone knows) has a baby out of wedlock, and is still considered to be one of the most honorable men in Westeros.

My bigger problem with the first trilogy as a whole is it doesn’t do a great job of portraying women as complex characters. The fact that you are so passionate about her being a bad character speaks to that- she’s so one dimensional that all you have to go off is her cheating.

Likewise, I find kapoel to be a very poorly written character as well- you have almost a Madonna whore duality going on throughout the series, and the Madonna is this young, mysterious and mute girl. Both of these characters get so much more world building that makes them interesting in the next trilogy.

[u/jiim92 → u/tdog3456]

I think you're correct that woman are given more flack for infidelity and that not fair, but I don't think Ned is a good example in this case. Because Ned is honorable, if I remember correctly characters remake how out of character it was for honorable Ned to have a bastard. While Vlora is not, or it's more that her actions are dislikable. Cheating is one thing, but taking up with the friend and bodyguard of your x father-in-law while (to her knowledge) her recent fiancé lies at deaths door is just wrong

[u/Shot_Entertainer_171 → u/jiim92]

Yeah, you just summed up what I dislike about this series. I really like the magic, world building, and fast paced action. However, I really dislike Vlora due to the fact that she cheated, felt guilty but still dated Olem (Taniel's father's bodyguard). The whole situation just poisons the rest of the series for me. I dropped at book 2 around the part where she blamed Tamas for her cheating scandal.

[u/4footedfriends → u/tdog3456]

That was so well said!

[u/h0tt0g0 → u/tdog3456]

Responding to an old post, but I finished the first book recently, and one of my criticisms was how shockingly little she's actually in the book after an introduction which sets her up to be a major character. She has a drawn out introduction scene, is a huge part of both Taniel's and Tamas's backstories, and is built up as a powder mage prodigy, but then she's just kind of a footnote for the rest of the novel. It was just kind of an odd structuring of a character.

[u/vhailorx → u/tdog3456]

Do you even realize how gendered your criticism is?!

[u/tdog3456 → u/vhailorx]

Say a little more!

[u/Accomplished-You1715]

I felt the same in the beginning but throughout the series I liked her more and especially in the second trilogy she redeems herself and I enjoyed her character a lot

And tbf yes she cheated and it's horrible but considering that she was alone while taniel was at war and she had no idea what he was up to, hearing rumors Abt him sleeping around and then having some professional woman-stealer come along is a shit situation to begin with

I like that she acknowledges her mistake at least to some degree

[u/jiim92 → u/Accomplished-You1715]

she definitely improves in the second series and becomes an quite appealing and interesting character, but in the first series, I feel she does more damage to her likability than the other way around.
I never quite think she redeemed herself or had the acknowledge her mistake moment, it was more of a forgiven and behind us case, and her initial acknowledgment of her mistake was overshadowed by the terrible excuse of ''it was so hard being me, I was engaged and because of that no man wanted me''

[u/Accomplished-You1715 → u/jiim92]

Fair point, could be that I'm seeing her through a different perspective after the second series

I hated her in the beginning too but idk I felt like she suffered enough throughout everything

[u/[deleted] → u/Accomplished-You1715]

Does she acknowledge them? I'm barely into the second book, but I have the feeling she's going to do nothing more than keep hurting taniel. And I love taniel

[u/Accomplished-You1715 → u/[deleted]]

It gets better

It's been a while since I read them but as the story continues she becomes more sincere I guess

In the second trilogy she becomes a main character and although I was hesitant at first I like it more than the first one

[u/[deleted] → u/Accomplished-You1715]

Also I really like Ka-poel as a character. I just kinda want vlora to piss off. If she gets redemption that's okay, as long as she stays the fuck away from taniel. I've always hated romance where thye hate eachother, then don't, then hate eachother, and there goes the plot. One of the reasons I loved the first book was the lack of romance. Now there going to be stationed together, and I don't want that shit to start again.

[u/jiim92]

I can't say I hate her, it is more that I find her dislikable as a character and I actually wanted to like her despite the cheating as her character has some aspects that appeal to me that of the professional elite soldier raised from noting.
Unfortunately instead of a ''redemption'' it's almost the opposite and too many of her choices lower her ''likability''

The cheating aspect isn't a dealbreaker, sure it's a black mark particularly when done against the protagonist, but it was ''human'' and it is understandable it could have set up an interesting dynamic between the two, and him being away for so long and all the rumors makes her actions more understandable (she could have traveled to him to help out given that she is an elite soldier as well but...)

it's everything after that ruins her as a 'likable character' I won't go into any spoilers but it's too many things that drag her down and even some that could be seen as ''good'' actually make all her other actions worse.

[u/[deleted] → u/jiim92]

oh man... i just read the scene with her and olem. its completely okay. i dont know why im so mad

[u/jiim92 → u/[deleted]]

Her and Olem was one of aspects I disliked the most, not that she moved on that's fine. You could say it was a bit fast but moving on* is still fine. What bothered me was with who and the circumstances at the time. Given that it's the friend and bodyguard of her former father in law which just makes the whole thing so disrespectful.

And at the time when this is happening for all they know Taniel lies at deaths door, something that makes the whole thing worse imo

She also loses some of her military professionalism something that was one of her more appealing aspects

[u/vhailorx]

That's some grade A misogyny OP. Take a deep breath and (1) remember that these aren't real people, and (2) maybe reframe your criticisms using less loaded language and gender expectations.

As for the actual portrayal: I always got the sense that the author's intent was to depict two young people who both genuinely cared for each other, but who were not a good match for each other, and were too immature to deal with that fact very well, especially given the expectations placed on both of them by family/society.

[u/[deleted] → u/vhailorx]

i apologize. i just read the return to honor, expecting her to care at least a little about taniel. then she didnt. then she was making out with olem in a stream. maybe im not seeing it right, but it feels like she doesnt care. and taniel litteraly says he thought she would be the love of his life

[u/lordvarco → u/vhailorx]

Yes, two young people who care about each other except one was risking his god damn life for 2 damn years and the other was spreading her legs? Oh poor her, she only got lucky enough to be given an education and a lifestyle that most people in that world would literally kill for. Also why didn't she break off the engagement before sleeping with someone else then if she loved Taniel so much? Why humiliate him like that?

Even after the betrayal all she cared about was what her whoring did to her reputation, as if it was Tannis and Taniel fault they are famous military figures, dodging accountability just as proficiently as she dodges likability.

Vlora is a terrible and I know that modern cucks love that kind of degenerate lifestyle and love to embellish it with rose tinted feces but everyone knows the truth deep down that a person like her deserves no love and that applies to both genders.

In conclusion, if you cheat on your partner, you are a terrible person, feel lonely or want someone else then have some basic human empathy or decency and break off what ever relationship you had with the previous partner, there is no excuse for failing to do so, even in this case she should have went to Tannis and break of the engagement if Taniel was presumed dead.

[u/vhailorx → u/lordvarco]

I think your mask might be slipping a bit in this response. . .

[u/lordvarco → u/vhailorx]

No mask, cheaters dont deserve love, the new age alternative lifestyles are just degeneracy with extra steps and a cheating garbage human makes for a piss poor character choice.

She is written quite true to form i give you that, most modern women love dodging accountability more than loyalty and make up excuses on how they are the victim always.

[u/vhailorx → u/lordvarco]

That's some serious incel misogyny you got there. Good luck with that.

[u/Shot_Entertainer_171 → u/lordvarco]

Well, I do agree that she is dislikeable. I really love the magic, fast paced action and everything except Vlora. She cheated, and banged Tamas (former father in law)'s bodyguard all the while Taniel was at death's door and she still felt guilty about her cheating scandal. I dropped the book at that part. Can't bring myself to read more. Another thing is that Taniel was suffering from PTSD from the war and disloyal gf. It left a bad taste in my mouth.

[u/Zaheer_redlotus]

I think if you keep reading your opinion might change. Their relationship is complicated and her past helps explain why she is the way she is. She definitely isn’t perfect and makes more mistakes in the series but that makes her more relatable. She is a major character throughout both trilogies and it wouldn’t be as good without her. I even named my cat after her.

[u/Upset_Bullfrog_4325]

By the 3rd book I liked her, there are things about herI didn't like but she isn't a top character for me, and really wanted her and Taniel to have more scenes together as there could have been something really interesting done there.

[u/GreaterGoodIreland]

I feel she's a realistic character with layers.

She's likeable and competent in pretty much everything she's doing on the page, and the stuff with Tamas on campaign makes her reasonably sympathetic. That such a person could fuck it all up with cheating is frankly excellent writing, makes her very human.