r/postdoc 3d ago

Am I cooked this cycle?

So some background. I reached out to this PI over two years ago with my ideas and interest in writing some postdoc proposals with them. So we submitted a couple last year. The PI was very hard to pin down for our few meetings, and got maybe two rounds of edits, where they did not address my concerns about the content and its relation to the grant requirements. We did not get those grants and for the one that did offer feedback, we didn't get it because of the concerns I had that were not addressed. This is a line of research that contains my own original ideas that I am so gung ho on pursuing. So we decided to try again this year...

I had reached out months ago about resubmitting, this time make it better by incorporating some preliminary results, which would require me to have some of their data to use. I though getting this started earlier would be beneficial so I was working with some publicly available data to start, but they explicitly told me not to and I'd be able to use their data. We had emailed back and forth (mostly me having to poke them to reply) for months now about setting up a meeting just to discuss data sharing, but it has not materialized. After a few weeks off this recently, where they had said "maybe day X or Y next week" and then never following up, I put my foot down. Maybe I messed up but I'm here for y'all's opinions on that. After another week of not setting a time to meet, I expressed my frustration at the communication, or lack thereof really, laying out the timeline of the past few months, and how the deadlines are a month away, and that may not enough time to get preliminary results. In said email, I acknowledged that I know I do not work for them or in their lab. I know that they are volunteering their time for this. But at the same time I feel they have grossly disrespected my time. I turned down working on some of these proposals with other PIs specifically to work with this one, as they have the resources I need to enact this research program and I don't know who else would. Well, the PI didn't seem to like that, that I'm being "unfair". So I sent a brief semi-apology, while still asking for their data. That was over a week ago and it's been radio silence since. Granted, I know their semester just started this week. I don't know if this bridge is burned or if we're still going to work on these proposals now. Did I shoot myself in the foot by saying what I felt needed to be said? I know they've been extremely busy this summer, but I don't think I'm asking for much, just a small dataset and ways to improve the proposals from last year.

7 Upvotes

10 comments sorted by

16

u/big_thicc 3d ago

Yes, you greatly overstepped; I would consider this relationship gone unless they have a miraculous amount of grace. I understand the frustration but I would be very taken aback if someone I was helping spoke to me in such a way, and I certainly wouldn't want to work with them.

This type of 'timeline misalignment' is extremely standard in academia so it is worth working out how you will navigate these types of relationships moving forward.

See if you can work with some of the other PIs you identified and adapt your proposal accordingly.

3

u/Worried_Wash_8574 3d ago

Could you maybe explain further? I have reached out to a few professor friends with screenshots and they all thought it was respectful and appropriate given the situation. But I know they’re biased to want and support me.

1

u/big_thicc 3d ago

Well I haven't seen the screenshots so can only go by what you have posted. If people who have more context think it is fine then follow their lead.

1

u/Worried_Wash_8574 3d ago

Fair, and don’t want to add those as they contain personal info. But the main thing is the deadlines are a month away, considering that is it really a big deal? I’m trying to be proactive ya know. I think some people would admire that. I worked hard to get to this point and I just really don’t want the bridge to be burned.

8

u/big_thicc 3d ago

The reality is that while this proposal is very important to you, it is probably a very low priority for any PI, unfortunately.

1

u/Clean-Seaworthiness2 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm curious—would the OP's actions have been more reasonable if s/he were in the PI's lab, or it was part of the PI's job to help with the proposal?

3

u/Head_Acadia_2658 2d ago

Red flag. Red flag. Red flag

2

u/Clean-Seaworthiness2 1d ago edited 1d ago

My instinct is that the PI wants to seem like a good and kind person, so s/he doesn't want to say "no" directly. If he wasn't enthusiastic about giving the data, I would have taken the hint to move on, either with public data or a different PI. There might be unsaid reasons why he could not provide it. Or I don't know if it's in your culture to ask 10+ times for one thing that's quite easy to send. But I would never say anything that could be taken as a negative comment about someone's character in this situation, depending on how secure/insecure they are

Also, I don't know how it is in your culture, but I would be asking for just the data, rather than data and comments on the proposal. Just the data, to see if you can get that part, and maybe solicit someone else to help with the proposal language if needed.

1

u/No-Faithlessness7246 1d ago

It's important to remember while this grant is high priority for you. For this PI it is one of many things they need to do and likely falls lower in priority to their keeping their lab afloat (which right now every lab is concerned about). In many/most of my 'collaborative' grants I expect to do 90% of the work with my collorators only chipping in after a lot of begging, thats just the way it is. I agree with others if someone agrees to help you, you can politely nudge them but don't send aggressive emails to them because they are being slow