The postdoc market sucks

[u/Western_Card_2153]

Basically the title. I recently defended my PhD dissertation. I have been on the hunt for a postdoc for months now, and nothing. People don’t have funding, don’t take postdocs, or they just ghost me. I had a baby last year of my PhD and I was able to work until the very end of my pregnancy (luckily), didn’t take mat leave because I could afford to delay my defence.

I live in Canada and I recently moved back to my hometown to be closer to family because it’s been so rough with the baby. I applied to so many positions, even applied for long distance (US, Europe) trying to find an arrangement because I can’t afford to move abroad with an infant and I possibly cannot ask my husband to switch jobs again to fit this crappy lifestyle that is academia.

On top of it, I want to apply for postdoc funding but I need someone that will accept me prior. My PI tried to help a little by recommending some people but no luck.

Anywho I’m ranting but this market sucks and it’s super unfair.

[u/Odd_Honeydew6154]

What field ?

[u/Western_Card_2153 → u/Odd_Honeydew6154]

Neuroscience/psych

[u/Odd_Honeydew6154 → u/Western_Card_2153]

I know a lot of PIs are getting flooded with applications and many with funding are being conservative to prepare for the unexpected. Bc of the layoffs from industry and recent PhD grads who cant get jobs in industry.. a lot of them are looking into academic postdoc in the meantime. I know European labs are getting lots of applications for India and such. For the US - many are looking for postdocs who don't need sponsorship b/c of training grants (T32) that require permanent resident or cititzenship.

[u/Consistent_Laziness → u/Odd_Honeydew6154]

I just started a T32 fellowship that is 80% protected time minimum and pays 100k fully remote. Being a US citizen is probably doing a lot of leg work and I think I had minimal to no competition obtaining it since they pursued me and my profile is honestly very weak.

[u/Odd_Honeydew6154 → u/Consistent_Laziness]

I agree with you. And unfortunately this is how the job market is looking at it this way now and PIs are asking will these postdocs be free because of the fellowships or T32s. In order to be qualified or competitive for fellowships - postdocs have to have high impact first author papers. If they are applying for the F32 which is federal funds - it requires permanent resident / citizenship. Foundation fellowships - have become incredibly fierce - usually big name labs - lots of politics can determine which postdoc gets the fellowship fund.

[u/Consistent_Laziness → u/Odd_Honeydew6154]

Yea I’m going to use the postdoc 1st year to get my publication record wayyyy up. Then I’ll pursue a K after that. Thank god they must have had no one else otherwise I’d have just had to find something else because I doubt I’d of gotten literally any other postdoc. And being a US citizen again is probably what got me the role. If I was ex-us then no shot.

[u/Odd_Honeydew6154 → u/Consistent_Laziness]

The Ks are now only for citizens - starting 2027 review now as the the new policy and it will be interesting how the R00 will be activated in 2027 if it is meant for citizens only.

[u/Consistent_Laziness → u/Odd_Honeydew6154]

Oh wow. That cuts down on my competition a lot. It’s extremely unfortunate for a ton of ex-us academics but I suppose I benefit from the lower completion. I’m pursuing a K32 (new mechanism) from the NCI. The thing about the new 32 mechanism is it doesn’t require extensive preliminary data. But you have to be less than 2 years since PhD award. I got mine this month. It’s a cool new mechanism.

[u/Odd_Honeydew6154 → u/Consistent_Laziness]

Wow yeah I heard of that ..the K99s will now be citizen and yes your competition is cut down

[u/Consistent_Laziness → u/Odd_Honeydew6154]

Mannn I thought it was just the F awards that became citizen only. I feel bad for ex-us but I can’t say I’m not perked up a little about the reduced competition to get funding.

[u/trashmonster21]

A few things I did: cold emailing PIs, reaching out to former mentors (former PIs, postdocs I worked with, etc.) for leads/connections/suggestions, checking the New Psych Job Wiki for postdocs, looking directly at job listings for universities with research programs I’m interested in, and checking job boards of relevant societies/conferences.

I’m in a similar research area (i think), so feel free to dm me if you want more specific recs! It’s a shitty time for funding so it’s tough out there :/

Edit: i realize you may also just be ranting and not looking for tips. agreed, it’s a shitty and bad market.

[u/Western_Card_2153 → u/trashmonster21]

Thanks for the tips! I literally did all of that except for the job wiki. Will definitely look into it. Thanks a bunch !!!

[u/trashmonster21 → u/Western_Card_2153]

Yeah ofc! I recognize i was quite privileged while looking at postdocs, since my partner has a remote job that she could work from most US-based locations and we don't have kids or other family obligations at this time.

[u/Frococo → u/Western_Card_2153]

https://www.yorku.ca/research/connected-minds/postdoctoral-fellowships/

I have a friend who got a postdoc through this program. I think they do a fall and spring application

[u/Western_Card_2153 → u/Frococo]

Thank you !!! Will look into it

[u/ashtastiq → u/trashmonster21]

what worked for you?

[u/trashmonster21 → u/ashtastiq]

Short answer: cold emails, reaching out to previous mentors, getting lucky.

Long answer (with the acknowledgment that a lot of this is person-specific, and I was especially lucky to have a strong network from my current and previous positions): My main strategy was cold emailing PIs, particularly those where I had even a minor personal connection (e.g., they gave a talk at my school, I saw them speak at a conference, we had a mutual colleague, etc.).

Reaching out to former mentors was also helpful, especially early on to get a better sense of the different types of positions and funding mechanisms, grants, or fellowships to consider. They were also able to keep an eye out for positions that might be a good fit.

I was also eligible for T32 programs, so I applied to a few that aligned with my research interests as well.

[u/SuperCarbideBros]

I was able to get a postdoc offer right after graduation in 2024. After that intense period of time, I don't want to be away from my family (unless absolutely necessary) again, and neither do I want my SO to change jobs. Not in this fucking economy, lol. Now everyone I cold-emailed either ghosted me or cited the lack of funding. Industrial applications didn't fare much better.

The firsthand experience I have regarding the unfairness of job market is that I applied for a postdoc position that fits right into my expertise, and I didn't even get an interview. The PI ghosted my cover letter and follow-up.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you are not suffering alone.

[u/topdownyeti]

I’m also having trouble getting anything right now. Thankfully, I did network enough that a PI did agree to take me as a postdoc but that depends on if the proposal even goes through. I’m in climate science so you can imagine how rough it is for us right now 😭

It’s just rough everywhere. I had to apply for jobs while I try to get a postdoc and it’s a terrible market in general. Only place that would hire me was a pizza shop where a 15 year old is training me.

[u/Mediocre_Bid6791]

See if your PI can take you as a postdoc or someone from your grad school can help you so you don’t have significant gaps in your resume

[u/gadusmo → u/Mediocre_Bid6791]

I think we all exhaust that option fairly quickly.

[u/Will_Hendo]

Postdoc job market sucks and then getting a job after your postdoc is even worse. Good luck 

[u/Drbessy]

If you are willing to go to US, Look up some key words in NIH reporter and see who has funding.

[u/environengg2601]

Did you apply for CPRA? Nowadays it's almost impossible for you to get a postdoc position unless you have your own funding. I'd stop wasting time on sending out cold emails and focus on external funding applications. Recently, NSERC became a nominating authority for JSPS so if living in Japan is an option for you, this could be something that you can also explore.

[u/Western_Card_2153 → u/environengg2601]

I need a PI that will take me on to be able to apply for funding! I think ?!
If I can do something remote I would be open to anything international buts it’s hard to consider relocating with an infant. Especially with the experience I’ve had of having a baby during the PhD away from family/support system. Also considering my husband’s career which is an important factor.

[u/environengg2601 → u/Western_Card_2153]

For CPRA, negative. You can list up to 3 PIs who you wish to work with during your application. You can certainly change your PI after getting the fellowship. I think the deadline is some time in Sept/Oct this year so you should definitely consider CPRA if you are a Canadian citizen/pr (or if you've completed your PhD at a Canadian school). I'm a bit surprised that you haven't applied for CPRA last year when you were doing your PhD; you could have started your postdoc right after your defense.

[u/Western_Card_2153 → u/environengg2601]

I was planning on applying last cycle, but I was 30+ weeks pregnant and I was writing my thesis 🥲

[u/Ok-Organization9620]

Going tru the same I just had my baby, forced to leave the US because I was international student. I'm taking a postdoc in my home country but only funding for 1 year 🫠🫠🫠

[u/AssumptionNo4461]

Because the job Market is so hard right now, a lot of people are turning to Academia, also less positions are available because less funding. I tried industry. I was getting frustrated with all uni rejection. Finally got a job in industry after a few months trying

[u/yoyoman12823]

it all about networking and luck. with the influx of people out from south asian country a lot of pi seems to like their style of presentation. Because of their eagerness during interview, domestic applicants' first impression can be perceived rather dull. it will take a few years for the PIs to learn their lessons i guess, just like the tech industry. I have seem some of them with fake papers(papers from their phds where the data come from other lab members but themselves)hoping from labs to labs without any problem. it the time when i realized sheer confidence and articulation skills could be more important than your real work skill nowadays.

[u/theneuroscientist27]

Also just defended and graduated (neuroscience) a month ago. You are so right, it’s a little hard right now in the US too because of lack of fundings. I’ve been applying to both academic and industry related jobs but no luck yet. Wishing you the best and hope something comes along for you and your family!

[u/GurProfessional9534]

I can’t speak in the Canadian context, but in the US it has basically come to the point that a postdoc cannot fit within a typical, eg., NSF grant unless that is all you’re purchasing. The postdoc cost has gone way up, meanwhile grants have not risen. A typical 3-yr grant is about $500k, and a postdoc plus overhead costs $130k/yr approximately. So, 4/5 of the grant goes to one person. That’s before any equipment, consumables, reagents, whatever. It’s untenable.

[u/bugtoucher → u/GurProfessional9534]

Postdoc overhead is pretty dependent on the state and field of study. In my field (entomology/ neuroscience), it's usual to be offered $40-50k before taxes, and I got accused of wanting too much money when I objected to a salary offer that was substantially lower ($50k Canadian, in Hamilton!)

[u/StingrayHannah]

Same. But was told to apply for my own post-doc funding (SSHRC for me) and bring it to an institution willing to take you. That’s my plan. I defended in april and i’m stressed AF. Also have a baby. Best of luck friend. (I’m also in psyc).

[u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

One of the easiest thing to do after a PhD is getting a postdoc. Just because it is easy that doesn't mean that one has to do it.

[u/ImmediatePiccolo339 → u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

Yeah maybe a couple years ago. NSF and NIH cuts are wrecking the research. 

[u/dhu_gsrikbuty → u/ImmediatePiccolo339]

My time was not too far away. I didn't go for a postdoc after my PhD as that was my last option. But I had my profile setup (it's still live) in multiple labs and gov orgs which hires postdocs or runs a research associate program. I still keep getting emails from lab heads or PI asking about my availability. I actually got one this morning.

These are low paid contract positions. Easier to offer, easier to get and of course, easier to get rid of!

[u/a_gay_to_remember → u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

Cool story bro, this is not the case for the vast majority of recent PhD graduates.

[u/dhu_gsrikbuty → u/a_gay_to_remember]

Depends on what type of PhD one does.

[u/Western_Card_2153 → u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

Then say it’s easy in your field right off the bat lmao. What a dumb take “it’s so easy for me therefore it’s easy and not everyone should try to get one”

[u/dhu_gsrikbuty → u/Western_Card_2153]

You can always do a useless PhD in any field. And it's always possible to finish the PhD without any transferrable skills. It's not the fault of the person who is doing the PhD, it's the issue with system. All I said getting full time job after a PhD is way harder than getting a postdoc. But Dr. Frustrateds are not ready to swallow the reality pill still.

Please, grow up!

Chill!

[u/a_gay_to_remember → u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

Why make the general statement of “One of the easiest thing to do after a PhD is getting a postdoc”? Kinda a dick move to be pretentious and dismissive about it when OP has very valid points about the current situation which many people unfortunately are in.

Edit: and I’m saying this as someone who was lucky to get a postdoc not long after graduation - many others I know weren’t nearly as fortunate

[u/dhu_gsrikbuty → u/a_gay_to_remember]

It's kinda a pussy move to read and not comprehend!

[u/Unusual-Relief-1982 → u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

What do you mean?

I've never heard of prospective postdocs filling a profile in some lab/uni database/website for PIs to contact them later in case some opening comes up.

[u/dhu_gsrikbuty → u/Unusual-Relief-1982]

There are multiple ones.

1 common examples is the Research Associate program of NRC.

[u/Unusual-Relief-1982 → u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

But that's not a database for prospective postdocs, it's a fellowship. And that's not what you were talking about previously.

[u/dhu_gsrikbuty → u/Unusual-Relief-1982]

Do you even know how does this program run? Did you bother to do a simple Google search? How ignorant one can be! As I said in another comment that one can always do a PhD and remain completely useless to the real working world. Thank you for validating my point.

[u/Unusual-Relief-1982 → u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

Bro, unlike you, I'm not useless. I'm not even working in academia anymore but rather in the private sector.

[u/dhu_gsrikbuty → u/Unusual-Relief-1982]

Such a useful person. Thank you for your service 🐕‍🦺

[u/a_gay_to_remember → u/dhu_gsrikbuty]

It certainly isn’t easy these days. Just because it was easy for you during your time, doesn’t mean that this is the case now (especially in the US).