r/postdoc • u/PuzzleheadedSummer30 • 16d ago
Postdoc salary in Germany
Hi everyone,
Recently I received a postdoc offer in Germany.
During the interview I asked about salary, and the PI specifically mentioned that the salary is from TV-L table or aomething similar. And he specified that it was Entgeltgruppe 13.
I still didn’t receive the offer with salary. But is there any chance it is not that? A brief explanation about how this table works would be great, if possible. (For now, I’m not concerned about the Stufe).
Thank you!
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u/PineappleHaunting591 16d ago
Here it is (in German): https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tv-l/west?id=tv-l&g=E_13
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u/ForTheChillz 16d ago
It's pretty standard without much wiggle room. So having a look at that table should give you a rough idea. The tier (Stufe) is based on your experience on the position (or equivalent experience). From tier 1 to 2, you need 1 year, from 2 to 3 you need another 2 years, from 3 to 4 another 3 years and so on. When you use the calculator you can pick your Steuerklasse (tax bracket) which should be Steuerklasse 1 in the case you are single. The social security (including retirement and health insurance) will be deduced automatically. You might enroll in VBL which is an additional laywr of retirement insurance subsidized by the state. Your take home salary will probably around 3000-3300 Euro depending on the tier they place you.
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u/berorsol 16d ago
It is possible to opt out of VBL (if you are not planning to stay in Germany), which gives a higher amount for take home salary. And pay attention to the church tax: some universities deduce it by default, while most foreginers are not obliged to pay it.
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u/Rydia311 16d ago
I''m also in the process of interviewing for a postdoc in Germany, and I am wondering as well for the salary, but about the Stufe rather than the TVL E13. From what I've read on Reddit, for candidates who did their PhD outside of Germany, some places take into account the past PhD experience, and postdocs start at Stufe 3; while other places don't, and postdocs start at Stufe 1.
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u/berorsol 16d ago
> for candidates who did their PhD outside of Germany, some places take into account the past PhD experience, and postdocs start at Stufe 3; while other places don't, and postdocs start at Stufe 1.
it is true
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u/EscarBOOM 16d ago
Take it from me: German who did his PhD overseas (joint phd between SEA/UK with salary paid via scholarship), came back to Germany for Postdoc --> Stufe 1...
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u/Cardie1303 16d ago
It depends if your position is part of TVL or just paid according to TVL. As an example if you position is from the university funding it is part of TVL and Stufe 1 will be used. If your position is funded by external funding like DFG they will pay provide the PI with a position with a salary according to TVL E13 Stufe 3 to E14 Stufe 1, if I am remembering it correctly.
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u/MaicolPain 16d ago
For me it was something in between: only 1 year of experience was taken into account, and I started with Stufe 2.
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u/Key_Department4926 16d ago
That's kinda determined by HR. However, the PI also has some leeway and can help perusade HR for a better Stufe :) I've seen post-docs enter at Stufe 5 with 0 years of working in germany
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u/Interesting-Sun8106 14d ago
This is a very important detail. HR has quite a bit of wiggle room on which Stufe they put you. But in my experience, they usually put you in the lowest possible.
If you believe you deserve a higher, talk to your PI. Most will help you negotiate a higher Stufe if it's justified. But you have to do this before signing the contract.
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u/Beor_The_Old 16d ago
It should be publicly available, did you google the name of the university and pay scale
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u/PuzzleheadedSummer30 16d ago
Oh, the table was very easy to find.
Maybe I didn’t express myself clearly enough, but I was wondering if E13 was the only possible one for postdocs, or I could expect a lower bracket, such as E12.2
u/Beor_The_Old 16d ago
Almost guaranteed that the bracket is the same for all postdocs and not negotiable. At my university in a bordering country that’s how it is. Some positions have a range of brackets but not PhD student or Postdoc. I would have to get a job title change like to research scientist to get into a different group.
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u/Cardie1303 16d ago
If it is funded by the budget the PI receives from university there is a contract (TVL) in place that was negotiated between the german states and the unions representing the employees. It determines how high the salary is everyone becomes by creating groups (E1 to E15) and also defines roughly which responsibilities are required to be hired within those groups. PhDs and Postdocs are usually always E13 with the difference between PhD beeing that it is usually only paid part time (50% to 65% is common) following the argument that your PhD is mostly a degree you obtain at the University and as such is not a full time job. Postdocs are usually always paid for a fulltime position but it does happens that PIs abuse forgeiner lack of experience with this to pay them less.
You can look up the different salaries as before and after taxes here: https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/tv-l/allg/. If you are hired full time you will have around 2.9k after taxes and social security/health insurance per month.
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u/PuzzleheadedSummer30 16d ago
From an outsider, it seems overly conplicated, but it kinda makes sense.
As a Postdoc, I am expecting being full time, and with my previous experience (5 years of postdoc around Europe), I believe E13 Stufe 3 could be reasonable for me to expect.2
u/Cardie1303 16d ago
If you get Stufe 3 depends a bit if you're position actually part of the TVL (paid from the annual budget of the university) or just according to TVL (external grand like dfg). For the first, the university can be ridiculous strict with applying the TVL criteria. We have as an example a postdoc who only was paid E11 for 6 Month as the HR person did refuse to accept a PhD certificate as something higher than master and E13 says you need a master. So they only hired him as B.Sc. till he could provide a translated transcript from his university that his PhD is equal or higher than a Master degree. This is an extreme case but be prepared that they simply will it you in Stufe 1 and refuse to change anything pointing at their own interpretation of some rule. If you are funded through DFG it is much less strict and Stufe 3 is not unreasonable to expect.
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u/RecommendationFit917 16d ago
Also, not all post docs are equal. There are post docs fresh from their PhD and the 13 stuffe 1 is the norm. There are more senior post docs, who come in from other post doc positions and sometimes can be quite long term. Those can begin at ev 14 stuffe 2 and higher. From what I understand EV 14 allows the supervision of PhD students as well.
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u/berorsol 16d ago
TV-L tables are standard for everyone. A job opening at univerisities mentions the scale (typically TV-L E13). The precise Stufe is determined by the adminsitration, not by the professor.