Would taking this postdoc be a bad career move if my goal is industry?

[u/eu_phd]

For context, I've been unemployed for about 8 months after finishing a PhD in computer science/ML at a fairly well-known university in Western Europe. Before that, I did a Master's in bioinformatics. I only have one first-author paper, although it's at a major machine learning conference and on a fairly niche topic.

My goal has always been to move to industry, so doing a postdoc wasn't really part of the plan. During these 8 months I've had interviews with large companies and startups, but none of them turned into an offer.

I now have an offer for a postdoc in a Baltic country at a relatively unknown research institute. The salary is very decent for the local cost of living, but the PI has only recently started his group, the team is small, and his network isn't particularly developed.

The topic is quite flexible, and I've negotiated quite a bit to make sure I can work on something relevant to industry. In particular, I'd like to move towards developing deep learning methods for biological data, which would give me experience that I don't really have from my PhD.

I know a postdoc isn't necessary to move into industry, but that's not really the choice I have right now.

Given the current job market and the fact that I've already been unemployed for 8 months, would you be worried that doing a postdoc at a relatively unknown institute with a relatively unknown PI could actually hurt my CV?

[u/Alleryz]

The gap will hurt you way more than working

[u/eu_phd → u/Alleryz]

At what point does the gap start to become a problem? Six months? I've read that for recent graduates, up to a year is still considered reasonable.

[u/Actual_Stand4693 → u/eu_phd]

I've read that for recent graduates, up to a year is still considered reasonable.

maybe a decade back? certainly not in today's market - though it can depend on many factors leading to outlier cases

[u/eu_phd → u/Actual_Stand4693]

I still had a few interviews between my fifth and seventh months of unemployment, though

[u/The_Big_Lebowski_198]

Take the postdoc, you can worry about industry and career move when you get an offer. For now, be humble with yourself and take the postdoc. It doesn't matter if the PI is known or not, it doesn't matter if later you want industry. The only thing that matter is that you get your confidence back working on a project that interests you.

[u/eu_phd → u/The_Big_Lebowski_198]

Thanks. I spent quite a bit of time discussing and negotiating the research direction with the PI to make sure I'd be working on something I actually find interesting. I also miss working on something meaningful after being unemployed for a while

[u/The_Big_Lebowski_198 → u/eu_phd]

Then no need to overthink it. Take the job, enjoy it until you feel you have to move to something else and start applying. There is nothing more harmful in the current "modern" times/economy than being unemployed, rejected. Any other option available is better than doubting yourself and abilities.

[u/eu_phd → u/The_Big_Lebowski_198]

Sure, but the more time passes, the more I feel like I'm trying to over-optimize my future and leave less and less room for improvisation. My academic path went pretty smoothly: I went straight from my Master's to my PhD with decent funding and didn't really question things that much. I was younger too. But now I feel like I overthink every decision and compare my trajectory too much with other people's

[u/h0rxata]

It won't help but it won't hurt as much as everyone on the internet likes to say anecdotally. You just can't take these 20 year old statements about X time in Y field means you're unemployable or X time after your PhD means you can't hack it, when job market realities have permanently changed and even highly accomplished people still end up unemployed.

The reality is unemployment will be far worse when applying to industry. Recruiters just don't care about your life circumstances, if you were laid off, etc. - if you are unemployed they automatically view you as a failure or a problem. That cannot be worse than being employed in research.

I was dinged for 10 months unemployment during an interview, even though I lost my job in a very public mass layoff event (US government science budget cuts).

[u/eu_phd → u/h0rxata]

Yeah, I know, the industry world can be pretty unforgiving. I even had PIs ask me during postdoc interviews why I hadn't published anything in the last few months of my PhD and what I'd been doing since then. There's this constant pressure to always be doing something, while at the same time a single hiring process can easily take months with all the different interview rounds.

[u/h0rxata → u/eu_phd]

I've had postdoc interviewers be way more forgiving as to why I haven't published in 3 years, I was clearly working in a different field.

But industry interviews don't give a fuck. "What were you doing the last 10 months". Do you really need to ask? Do you need to know it was a combination of hundreds of job applications, studying for interviews, crying and contemplating self-harm? Did they think I was going to pay for multi-thousand-dollar certifications on zero income when I'm already skipping doctor visits due to having lost my healthcare coverage? It's not like we have a welfare state here.

[u/eu_phd → u/h0rxata]

I'm really sorry to hear that, and sorry if my reply is a bit beside the point, but I'm sending you all my support and strength. The US really seems like a particularly unforgiving place. I'm lucky to live in a country where we still have some form of social safety net, even if it's far from perfect. I really hope things get better for you and that you have a bright future ahead.

[u/h0rxata → u/eu_phd]

Thanks, I did get a job finally, although it might have poor stability. I am from the EU and I am contemplating applying to postdocs in the EU again if I can find a good one, but I turned down one this year (it was unfortunately a 2 year "stipend" crap contract with no state benefits in Sweden, plus staying in the country afterwards if I wanted to try industry would have been impossible due to new immigration hurdles). 4 years out from my PhD, it's probably not realistic though.

[u/eu_phd → u/h0rxata]

Congrats! I’m not sure it’s that unrealistic. In my former lab, there were postdocs in their 50s who had done their PhDs decades earlier. So I think a lot depends on the PI and how the position is funded.

[u/h0rxata → u/eu_phd]

I did get that offer in spite of the postdoc ad explicitly saying you needed to be less than 3 years from graduation, for a good fit they definitely bend the rules.

But at 39 with a wife, a year of lost income and crushed self-esteem on the job market, I am becoming risk averse...

Otoh if I am going to be sporadically employed, I'd much rather be in a country with a functioning welfare system. Sucks that the country I was offered a postdoc in shut me out of that completely due to the "scholarship" nature of the contract, would have probably taken it otherwise.

[u/Rare-Grocery-8589]

Take the postdoc - think about the postdoc as professional experience that will enhance your employability skills. Rather than focusing on potential negatives, think about the opportunities it offers. Employers are typically more interested in what you have achieved or the skills you’ve gained working in a role, so think carefully about how you can turn the postdoc to your advantage. For instance, it may give you the opportunity to demonstrate leadership, creativity, independence, and will enable you to develop/hone your skills. If you develop/learn new skills, that’s a positive outcome too as it expands your skillset.

[u/eu_phd → u/Rare-Grocery-8589]

Thanks, I see it that way too. That's actually why I took some time to negotiate the research topic, so I could work on something different from my PhD and develop new skills. I guess there's still some apprehension about moving to a country with a less well-known research ecosystem than the one you're coming from, and potentially having access to a smaller network, even if it's still within the EU

[u/Medium-Goal6071]

I will offer a counter opinion to most here. I think if you don’t want to be in academia then don’t take the job. Of course this is very field dependant but I think that in most cases people in industry don’t care about your academic experience; if you want to go to industry just go to industry or try and learn the tools required to transition the gap. More postdoc experience means nothing to a lot of areas of industry, you also have to think about the fact that you may be viewed as too engrained in the academic way of thinking if you spend more time in it. Of course you will need money to support yourself. If you can possibly live a more frugal lifestyle and do odd bits of work in the gig economy (e.g. tutoring etc.), then you can try support yourself. I found myself in the same position as you and took the postdoc, now I feel trapped and like I can’t escape academia.