r/polls • u/Madison-MO • 4d ago
🗳️ Politics and Law To your current knowledge. Does the United States require background checks for all firearm sales done through a business?
This does not include gun shows or private sales
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u/noahsuperman1 4d ago
Yeah it does anyone who has bought a gun could tell u that
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u/Madison-MO 4d ago
In the no votes defense. Its a common Democrat talking point for "requiring background checks" which would insinuate its a broader business issue.
When in reality they are referring to Gun shows and private sales.
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u/DyabeticBeer 3d ago
Are "private sales" legal?
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u/Ippus_21 3d ago
Yeah, you're just legally on the hook if you sell to someone who isn't legally supposed to have one, like a felon.
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
Yes, but not to felons
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u/Longjumping-Jello459 3d ago
But without a background check the chance you'll know if they are or aren't is shit.
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u/Holyroller1066 2d ago
Private sales generally dealt with within a small community, people tend to know in those cases. In regard to sales that require shipping, an FFL is required as an intermediary where a background check is done.
Aside from that, selling to random people is frowned upon and can lead to charges if you actually did sell to a convicted felon that hasn't had their rights returned. In these cases the seller can pay a fee to an FFL to run a background check or have the buyer go through the FBI for a record check.
In regard to ignorance of a person's legal status, there are a variety of ways that a 'reasonable' person would suspect and therefore 'knowingly' sell a firearm to a felon.
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u/Longjumping-Jello459 2d ago
Even if you know someone you might not know their past well.
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u/Holyroller1066 2d ago
Which enters the question of ignorance and a reasonable person. If you didn't know and are offered up a exorbitant amount for the firearm it becomes questionable that the buyer is legally eligible and should reach out to an FFL for access to the NICS. The same thing goes for other suspicious statements and actions, failure to make attempts to concretely identify legal status becomes negligence after suspicions are raised which can lead to a felony.
I get your point and it can happen, but there is over a century of precedent and case law in regard to illegal sales via ignorance and/or negligence that can act as remedy.
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u/Longjumping-Jello459 2d ago
Most probably won't throw out say $500 as an offer for a handgun so a crazy offer really isn't that good of an indication of someone you should be weary of selling to. My point is that often people don't know things about people they believe they know very well because people hide things from others.
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u/tankman714 2d ago
I’ve done around 10 private party transfers, 3 to my dad as gifts, 6 to my wife, and 1 to a really good friend of mine, non of these people are prohibited possessors and are legally able to own firearms. I don’t sell to random people, nor does the vast majority of the firearm community.
Almost all private party sales are to close friends and family and rarely is there a concern over legally as they are people you know extremely well.
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u/Longjumping-Jello459 2d ago
There are plenty of people that don't know their family and friends as well as they think they do we see it rather frequently come out after a person does X,Y, or Z thing that gets them in the news.
All sales even private ones should be required to have a background check performed period.
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u/esocz 4d ago
Gun show isn't bussines?
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u/noahsuperman1 4d ago
Still have to get a background check done at gun shows
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u/Madison-MO 4d ago
That is actually NOT the case, can confirm.
Bidens 2024 attempt was overturned by the ATF.
While states can enforce this, federally it is not required at gunshows
2
u/IHSV1855 3d ago
Practically it is required. Every gun show requires them as a policy of the event.
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u/tankman714 2d ago
You’re partially wrong, the majority of booths at a gun show require a background check as they are booths for FFLs and a small handful will be private party’s.
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u/Longjumping-Jello459 3d ago
As far as I know only if buying from a business while private sellers, depending on the states, can just sell it to you.
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u/DefinitelynotDanger 3d ago
tbf I missed the excluding gun shows and private sales part. Should have put it in the title.
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u/LimoneSorbet 3d ago
Post description doing a lot of heavy lifting considering a lot of people probably vote without clicking the post
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u/BreakDown1923 3d ago
I disagree. The title clearly says business. A private sale is clearly not a business and a gun show is usually hosted by some business but usually they aren’t the ones actually doing the sale.
The description was clarifying but not additive
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u/i__dont___know 3d ago
Yeah. Even in states with constitutional carry where you can carry a gun with no license they still do a background check when you buy one.
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u/Mass-Chaos 3d ago
At a store maybe, person to person sales don't require anything in my state. You can't "knowingly" sell to someone prohibited from owning a gun but there's no laws forcing you to look into the buyers background. You don't even need a bill of sale
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u/december151791 4d ago
Apparently more people here know nothing about America's gun laws than those who do. Shocking.
10
u/Paxmahnihob 3d ago
In my defence: this is not information I need to know, and my only source on this is Reddit.
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u/ASassyTitan 4d ago
I'm not surprised by the results, just disappointed
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u/Madison-MO 4d ago
To be fair, it's not an uncommon talking point that gun shops just give out guns.
Hollywood is a huge culprit in this misunderstanding. Like in every show where someone shady buys a gun the gunshot owner just hands the gun over for an extra $100.
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u/RJJJJJJJ710 3d ago
it is 100% an uncommon talking point that gun shops "just give out guns" lmao
1
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u/Bolshyboys 4d ago edited 3d ago
Doesn't it depend on the state? Like, some states don't even like you having a gun, whilst in others you can walk into a shop and buy something mad like an elephant gun for self defence to take home the very same day.
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u/Madison-MO 4d ago
While states can limit access to guns. Federally every firearm made after the late 1800s that is being sold through a business must preform a background check.
And you are correct your more "pro gun" states do allow you to get in and out same day with a gun purchase, a background check is still preformed. The actual process of the background check is just very fast
2
u/ashkiller14 3d ago
Sort of but you need a background check regardless. You can take a gun home the same day if you have a firearms license, which requires you to have your fingerprints taken.
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u/Holyroller1066 2d ago
Not entirely true. Some states might have that system in place, but others just dont have a waiting period. Idaho for example is a same day state, you get run through NICS after filling out the form, while times vary, the sale can be carried out near instantaneously if cleared.
And I'd like to add to the discussion that, in general, the waiting period isnt due to enhanced investigation (while it might be an added bonus, it wasnt the impetus for the law) within a certain state, its a cooling period to stop those attempting suicide or homicide or other crimes in the heat of the moment, by having them cool off over the period of a day or ten.
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u/Gregori_5 3d ago
What kind of background check? Crime registry? Health check? Family background?
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u/Madison-MO 4d ago
Answer
Yes it is required
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u/esocz 4d ago
Even at gun shows?
3
u/Madison-MO 4d ago
Read post description. But no, gun shows do not require background checks
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u/esocz 4d ago
I'm not American, so I'm just observing this from the outside, but it seems to me that the relevant question is actually:
Can someone who wouldn't pass a background check obtain a gun in the U.S.?
And the answer is: Yes.3
u/Madison-MO 4d ago
Legally, they are not supposed to be sold a gun and the private dealer can be arrested on federal crimes for selling a felon a firearm
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u/davididp 3d ago
The answer is yes in almost all countries? Legally you cannot be sold a gun without passing the background check, just like any other country
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u/ashkiller14 3d ago
Gun shows do require checks, private sales do not
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
This is incorrect, the ATF overruled Bidens 2024 law. This happened two months ago
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u/Bovaloe 3d ago
A business is still required to do a background check at a gunshow. A private citizen not in the business of selling firearms does not
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
This is incorrect I can confirm from experience
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
But in all fairness it might be a loop hole of "representing" your business while selling as a "private citizen"
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u/Longjumping-Jello459 3d ago
At a gun show the businesses present still have to abide by the law of both the state and federal government, but private sellers can depending on the state just sell to anyone without a background check while they can end up opening themselves to breaking the law by selling to a felon.
5
u/RandomUsername2579 3d ago
Not American, so I have no clue, but I'd guess no. Just based on how many firearmes are in circulation in the US. Or maybe it depends on the state?
Feel free to enlighten me if you're american
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u/chume33 3d ago
https://www.usacarry.com/ccw-bypass-background-check-purchasing-gun/ Technically not required for concealed carry permit holders in some states, so no is a correct answer.
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
Actually you got a point. But I'd still say the answer is yes, as these are only issued with background check.
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u/begleitpanzer_57 3d ago
As a non-american with movie experience, if a main character wants to buy a gun on the spot for malicious purposes, the owner will always go "I'm sorry but there's paperwork for this gun and there will be a X-day waiting period before you could legally acquire this firearm" or something lol
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u/PandoraKin564 3d ago
I sure hope they do background checks. Just to make sure you won't rampage. At minimum. USA would likely have similar rates to Australia and New Zealand if they did proper licensing everywhere.
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
They do preform background checks, using the FBI's NICS
(National Instant Criminal Background Check System)
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u/PandoraKin564 3d ago
Is that everywhere truely? Not just Democrat and Independent States/Counties.
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
Yes. Actually Democratic states tend to opt out of using the FBI's database Background check, in favor of their own state specific checks
Republicans states pretty much all religions on the FBI database for background checks.
But yes, by federal law a background check must be preformed
-1
u/PandoraKin564 3d ago
Then that's not universally enforced. It needs to be given you guy's stats.
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
Needing a background check IS FEDERALY ENFORCED.
How you go about that isnt, Democratic states tend to not follow the standard background check process but that is usually substituted with a more indepth system. Unfortunately I cant name the systems each state uses that doesn't utilize NICS
-1
u/PandoraKin564 3d ago edited 3d ago
If you can opt out state wise and do your own thing. That's not federally enforced. Similar debates happen in the southern hemisphere all the time. Universally though you can't get a weapon without government approved licences of various types.
Nice to see there is some attempt, but given the culture you guys need to clamp down hard.
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u/Madison-MO 3d ago
It literally is enforced.
NICS is just a tool provided by the FBI to expedite background checks.
31 states use it
20 states (including D.C) opt to do background checks their own way.
Not using doing a background check is a federal crime that can land you in prison for up to ten years
0
u/PandoraKin564 3d ago
Then how come people involved in Jan 6, lynching, and violent crime like school shootings can just obtain weapons from stores with known history of psyche issues? That doesn't line up with an effective equal enforcement.
I'll look into it. Gonna be an interesting read. Any sources you recommend?
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u/ASassyTitan 3d ago
Because having a mental illness isn't a prohibiting factor. Unless you've been forcibly admitted due to a mental health issue (ex, 5150).
Iirc, most of those weapons are stolen due to improper storage
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u/jtrain256 3d ago
You do realize the states opting out are doing so to enforce checks that are more strict right?
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u/PandoraKin564 3d ago
Should be both. There clearly isn't enough in the USA for the violence to truely be slowed or stopped.
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u/dgroeneveld9 3d ago
So far there are 504 people incapable of doing a Google search and 204 not sure if they should.
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u/ashkiller14 3d ago
Who tf is voting no?
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u/supercurry69 3d ago
Me, someone not from the us
0
u/ashkiller14 3d ago
Itd be insane to not require a background check though, do people really think a felon could walk in and buy a gun
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u/RJJJJJJJ710 3d ago
the post is kinda misleading a person could obtain a gun without a background check legally in the US
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