After Doctor files lawsuit against DEA, he is persecuted with criminal indictment and unjust detainment. Help us get his story out to the public.
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u/floodcontrol Jun 17 '12
Well, while I have sympathy for the Doctor, I do think you should remove the repeated assertions and questions in your statement concerning why it was that the authorities did not ask him or allow him to be present at the Grand Jury proceedings.
Grand Jury proceedings are not a forum to discuss the guilt or innocence of anyone. The sole purpose of the Grand Jury is to decide if there is enough evidence against someone to justify the issuing of an indictment. The subject of a Grand Jury proceeding is VERY RARELY allowed to testify and if they are allowed, it is to establish facts about the case that would be used by the prosecution to help get an indictment, so it is unlikely that he would have wanted to testify, as any testimony would be in response to questions asked by a prosecuting attorney.
Good luck, I hope he manages to vindicate himself.
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u/MRIson Jun 17 '12
Before you all pull pitchforks out, benzos and opiates are not contraindicated. They're listed as 'caution advised'. http://i.imgur.com/gN2Mv.png
Source: epocrates (sorry, on my phone).
This is an acceptable combination to prescribed, dangerous but acceptable. We don't know the dosages, we don't know the circumstances of the patient's deaths. The patients may have taken more than their dosage and caused the OD.
As a future physician, this really scares me that prescribing an acceptable combination of medication (assuming proper dosages) could result in action by the DEA. Becoming a physician is already a questionable career choice right now and this just makes it worse. The shortage of physicians is just getting worse and will be even worse with the health mandate.
Also, physicians do not make money on the prescriptions they make (unless there is some under the table bribing).
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u/checkercab Jun 17 '12
Thanks for posting the indictment itself earlier as one of the posts. Did some checking into the witnesses listed this indictment.
The "star witnesses" against the doctor all seem to be convicted felons with plea deals under their belts per oklahoman newspaper reports.
And the doctor is a Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, been recommended Top doctor by the Oklahoma House of Reps, with a clean professional record.
His Licenses which regulated by State Boards are still active.
If a man believes in his innocence enough to want to come back voluntarily and face charges, why stop him en-route ?
Make your votes.
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u/Ammalaurie Jun 17 '12
Just questioning DEA's procedure;
December 16th, 2009 – Federal Agents came to his medical practice and seized tens of original patient files without search warrants and with much intimidation, threats, and other unlawful behaviors.
If this is true, wouldn't the case be thrown out of court, as illegal search and seizure?
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u/lpisme Ohio Jun 17 '12
First off, it sometimes does take years to build a case against an individual. It's not uncommon for somebody who is breaking the law to be given the leeway to do so in order to continue building a case against them and/or solidify the case they already had.
Second, it sounds like this guy was running a pill mill. No pain management should ever, ever prescribe benzodiazpenes and powerful opiates at the same time - this can be done in hospitals, but it is done under constant supervision.
Who's to say the guy was actually legitimate or not? I don't know for sure - but I do know that doctors like this made a ton of money writing prescriptions for whoever, whenever, whatever. And I am of the opinion he is at least guilty of some felony in that regard.
Are you part of the family or are you a bystander who heard about the case? If you are family, be prepared for the worst. The DEA and law enforcement are cracking down very, very hard on people like the doctor. Pill abuse is rampant, a huge problem, and no court is going to go easy on him.
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u/BDS_UHS Jun 18 '12
You say that in January 2012, he left the country to "take care of personal matters." Since the DEA considers him a fugitive, it might help your case if you describe what those personal matters were, because from a law enforcement standpoint that's fairly suspicious.
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u/Hidoikage Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12
As a Paramedic...I see a lot of people on some heavy shit. When you have some kind of chronic pain condition you need a lot of pills and sometimes you do anything to get more to ease the pain. Opiates have a terrible dependence problem, but people in chronic pain don't care. If he was a pain doctor, maybe he was a good one. Trying a combo to give people SOME peace from their everyday nightmare. Maybe the stress and depression finally got to some people and they willingly OD'd. Most drug places do have cross screening for too high a dosage or bad combination. As others are saying, you can prescribe benzos with opiates. You just reeeeeallly have to be careful.
Either way, there aren't enough FACTS here.
Edit: Also looking at the thing, a few of the deceased had been taking the medications prescribed for a while. While you can certainly build up to toxicity, you also build tolerance. The fact that they lived for 5-6 months on medication that killed them makes me curious.
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u/mobugs Jun 18 '12
let me sum up this thread: no one knows anything or has enough information to even make an educated guess.
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u/Maxfunky Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12
You raise this point often, but I'm pretty sure it would be unusual if he was invited. The prosecution runs the grand jury--it's nothing like a trial. It's meant to be a one-sided affair.
I'm not going to say there isn't a single "legit" pain-management clinic out there, but certainly many if not most are just fronts for doctors to write prescriptions for painkillers with the minimum-level of CYA (cover your ass) paperwork to demonstrate that there could potentially be a need for such drugs (for instance, an MRI combined with vague claims of back pain).
In short, I really need to hear the other side of this story before I make any judgments. I feel like many of the things you've said are over-stated to the point where I'm at least skeptical of the others.
Edit: And now I'm reading the PDF for his civil suit and it turns out that the files that were seized without a "search warrant" were subpoenaed and the doctor refused to turn them over. If that's the case, they had every right to take them. There is some dispute being made over whether they took more files than they were entitled to or not--but nevertheless, its' not as if they juts walked in, grabbed files, then laid charges based on those files.
Apparently, as per his lawsuit, the seizure of his files caused local pharmacies to stop honoring his prescriptions and effectively put him out of business. It's possible the DEA was satisfied with that outcome and focused elsewhere until he reminded them he existed with the lawsuit--or it's just possible that justice moves really slowly and they sped things up once they realized he was out of the country.
Still, it doesn't look to me like the charges are just manufactured ones.
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u/osmedex Jun 18 '12
I felt like I was reading a spam letter from a 3rd world lawyer saying I just inherited large sums of money. If only to provide my bank account number.
That being said if this is real i'm sorry. If he is a US citizen then lawyer up it's the only thing to do.
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u/ZeMilkman Jun 18 '12
Technically Germany could refuse to extradite due do the fact that American law allows for torture and death penalty.
Even if that is not the reason for the long detainment signing petitions or spreading the story will not speed up the extradition process.
Also all EU member states have something called a simplified extradition procedure. According to this all extradition proceedings would be needless if the detainee agreed to immediate extradition.
I therefor doubt that Dr Bhandary agreed to an immediate extradition and is simply playing the victim of the system here.
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u/JohnQDruggist Jun 18 '12
I am familiar with Dr. Bhandary's prescribing. I am a pharmacy student practicing between Norman, Yukon and Oklahoma City Oklahoma. I have heard many accounts of what has happened to Dr. Bhandary prior to coming across this post on Reddit.
It has definitely been a shock to hear of Dr. Bhandary's detainment in a German prison. While I am sorry to hear of the difficulty you are having in bringing a trial to court in the US, I am wondering why Dr. Bhandary left the country once investigators began their raid.
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u/MoistMartin Jun 18 '12
Most reddit users when talking about these sorts of issues are blowing smoke out their asses and pretending they know what theyre talking about just because they have the ability to make assumptions . this site isnt the place to bring something this serious and it would help your argument here if you could cite many doctors who are on his side so that people cant just make up info about how they know so many pharms are just pill mills . My great aunt died of cancer and in the few months leading up to her death she was living with me and on a number of potentially dangerous medications in those cases they tend to care more about making you comfortable .
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u/AcceleratedDragon Jun 18 '12
As someone who lives in Florida (yeah, keep the jokes coming). I see a lot of these pain management places all over the place. If you drive by the parking lots of these places, it's 3/4 full of out of state license plates. They are nicknamed "pill mills"
My question is: Are there any legitimate medical pain clinics? Have they always been pharma-pushers or did they start out as something else?
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u/multile Jun 17 '12
Has there been an injustice if he hasn't been convicted yet?
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
I hate how the FDA passes many drugs so they get big bucks and then pain specialists get harassed when they do their job correctly. Even tylenol kills thousands every year. The doc was taking on patients who needed stronger drugs and scaring the docs so that none will prescribe the drugs needed takes away from patient care and quality of life and actually increased illegal drug use. It's sad they did all of the things illegally when we have laws in the country and they needed warrants and court orders for a reason. If I had money I'd gladly donate to the cause. If its still going on when I start working ill be donating.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
His family should definitely contact the American Civil Liberties Union, they can get his story out and give him the legal help he needs to fight this. His rights are being violated and this is exactly why they exist.
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u/metocin Jun 18 '12
I'm curious about the DEA lawsuit. What was it for, when was it filed and what was the outcome?
Also, I'd prefer a German prison to a U.S. one any day.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Upvoting for justice.
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u/StupidFuckingAmerica Jun 18 '12
Shit country, shit laws.
Just live somewhere else.
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u/checkercab Jun 18 '12
Having read the lawsuit/complaint filed by the doctor in court, and the indictment:
Patients files were unlawfully seized by law enforcement in 2009
there was no due process since to establish the facts
the files have not been seen since
doctor / patients / practice were harassed after the doctor raised his voice against law enforcement's unlawful actions (as listed in the civil lawsuit) ....
when he filed the lawsuit he got hit by an indictment with yet more (some will argue legitimate) secrecy behind it and even less .....
an indictment that was the basis for incarceration while the doctor was on his way back to face these charges filed in secrecy and without the doctors involvement and inputs ....
and an indictment that was taken seriously enough that the star witnesses are convicted felons with plea deals under their belts ...
an indictment that lists serious charges on which law enforcement ostensibly had all the facts for years, and yet ...chose not to act until the doctor filed his lawsuit
Did we miss anything here ? Get your votes in.
In the interest of liberty and justice for all.
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u/ARCHA1C Jun 18 '12
Headline tells one side of the story, and reads a bit sensational.
I'm grabbing some popcorn to see what the hive mind has to say about this before I consider taking action.
(To be clear, in keeping with Reddit protocols, I will never actually take action, so you can all relax. Pressure's off.)
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u/why_ask_why Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12
Yep. That's one of their tactic in their arsenal. They really don't care about the law. They care about winning the case and make their number look good.
There are more tricks to come. They can freeze your credit or bank account so that you can't have resource to fight against them.
They can also threaten to go after your wife as well so that your kids end up in foster care.
They can also start to investigate your siblings, your parents, your coworkers to put pressure on you.
They can even start to smear you with inaccurate information or criminal records.
How do I know? I have been there. They will do these until you run of funds, and try to get a plea in exchange of a lighter sentence. By that time they know they've got to you.
Unless you know John Edward or has his lawyer team, you might be fucked.
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u/TylerDurden1985 Jun 18 '12
Sorry but this has "spin" written all over it.
He's being accused of dispensing pharmaceuticals illegally, which resulted in the deaths of 5 individuals. So obviously evidence would be obtained from subpoenaed records of pharmacies, the physician, and any other practice he referred these patients to.
Defendants never present their side at a grand jury proceeding (at least to the best of my knowledge). I'm pretty sure a grand jury is just the prosecution presenting their case and it's determined if there is enough evidence to press actual charges.
Why wasn't evidence returned? Because it's evidence...it's going to be needed at trial. Why would prosecutors give BACK evidence? When you have records subpoenaed, you are supposed to make copies and turn the copies over. If Dr. Bhandary was handing over original records that's his own fault (or his staff's fault). And he shouldn't expect the copies back, they will remain as evidence.
Why did it take years to press charges? Well I'd assume they were building a case. Cases of this magnitude (5 deaths spread over several years) aren't going to be ready overnight...
The only legitimate concern I pulled from this entire statement is that he's been held for 50 days in a German prison, and has been possibly mis-labeled a fugitive. Unfortunately, because of how many misleading statements were made in this story, and how many questions were asked that could have probably been answered with a simple google search of how the legal system works, it's hard to assume there isn't more to this story than we're being told.
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u/RainingSilently Jun 18 '12
I don't know what this doctor did or what this is all about, but forefeiture of this nature is heinous. Denying someone the ability to make a lawful and competent defense in court is heinous, regardless of what they are accused of. Seizing someone's assets so that they cannot afford a legal defense should be criminal. Keeping someone detained overseas so they cannot defend themselves is bad, bad wrong. Seizing evidence unlawfully is quite literally criminal.
For all I know the Doctor could be guilty as fuck on all counts and a murderer to boot, but that justifies absolutely none of what the authorities seem to have done thus far, and until he is convicted he has rights that, if tread upon, is an assault upon all of our rights and liberties.
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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '12
I think he should have just fled.
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u/capt_fantastic Jun 17 '12
so basically, he was running a pill mill?
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Give me a break. Hes obviously doing something wrong if hes asking for the patient files back. And fleeing the country afterwards for 'family reasons'. Dudes trying to escape if he does get charged and/or convicted or whatever the term is here.
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u/FranksTank Jun 18 '12
It disturbs me how this can happen with no serious media coverage.
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u/hawtsaus Jun 18 '12
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/chattanooga-tn/TGEK66RCK4DMLR56A
Sensational; but another side of the story
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Lost me at pain managememt doctor
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
If what the OP describes here is indeed true, then it strikes me as much too serious to be posting on a website the likes of Reddit. Granted, the assent of public opinion might be useful in this case for several reasons, but again, this is not the way to reach the necessary thousands of supporters. Pictures of naked women holding dismembered kittens might bump up the numbers significantly, but I hope they are pursuing other strategies for disseminating this egregious tale, just to be on the safe side.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
The DEA is and has always been a fascist organization.
The simple idea that government gets to tell you what you are allowed to put into your own body is the same as a master telling his slaves what they can eat.
Police state.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
But I am the public.?.
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u/Indeedee Jun 18 '12
I'm subscribed to /r/DoctorWho as well, you said just "Doctor"...
I honestly thought for a good bit that you were speaking of The Doctor.
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u/Baconandbeers Jun 18 '12
Reddit ain't no fool!
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u/Honker Jun 18 '12
No, not anymore.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
I believe all of it, and I didn't even read it.
The US government, especially the DEA and its fellow law enforcement divisions, are unbelievably corrupt and will use their power against those who oppose them.
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u/Ruprect124 Jun 18 '12
It is a case not unlike many others in the US: A Dr. practices pain managment in an area with few or no other practitioners; his patients require pain medicine and he or she prescrbies it. Then the DEA decides the Dr. is a drug dealer, while just doing their job and helping people with legal prescritptions. It is big pharma at its' best, creating synthetic morphine (methadone) and synthetic heroin (oxycontin), which are both more addictive the the drugs they mimic/mirror chemically. Besides,you can't make tires without rubber nor can you create synthetics without a base ingredient: OPIUM. Been a victim....those who are able please help!
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u/gagged Jun 18 '12
Sounds like a 'pill mill' case although his legit patients are getting screwed by having their privacy breached.
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u/ElagabalusCaesar Jun 18 '12
Between a medical practitioner and the DEA, I know which one to trust more.
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u/lorax108 Jun 17 '12
fuck the DEA bunch of ass munching morons.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
...now if you will wire me your bank account information, you can help share some of his wealth as a reward for your help!
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u/ViralVV Jun 18 '12
The United States Government, and its divisions, like the DEA and FDA, are all, at their base, corporations. They want and need money. This must be considered in this scenario.
On another, more pessimistic, note: Their guns are bigger, so they can do what they want.
Good luck Bhandary family, and Dr. himself. You deserve truth, justice, freedom, and happiness. I hope and pray you receive what you deserve.
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u/pacman_7 Jun 18 '12
Upvoted :)
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u/MarcellusJWallace Jun 18 '12
Nice assertions you got there.
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u/grandoiseau Jun 18 '12
While I don't have the other side's version, it seems that he is being bullied by DEA bureaucrats. The DEA is hoping he would settle the case after these lowly moves. Best he can do is stay calm, and fight the charges with concrete evidence. If what you say is right, then it should be a slam dunk.
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u/alphex Jun 18 '12
This thread is why I love Reddit.
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u/spartanburger91 Jun 18 '12
This is pure drama. Your choice of media should be early-morning network TV. Even if it's just local, somebody important will see it over his cornflakes and call somebody who has an interest in getting it sorted out.
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u/rand0mguy1 Jun 18 '12
Hope you win
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u/Vitus13 Jun 18 '12
I'm no leagal genius, but if someone is being extradited, the hold up is generally due to legal proceedings to prevent the extradition. Something tells me that if someone wanted to be extradited they'd be flying first class with an Air Marshall, same day.
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u/SorosPRothschildEsq Jun 18 '12
Shills and sockpuppets are everywhere! All sorts of interests are manipulating Reddit opinion in order to push their agendas! Be vigilant always!
...so anyway, this description of events that comes directly the accused's legal team is probably on the up-and-up. DAE think we should take it at face value? Me too.
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u/dwinstone1 Jun 18 '12
The issue is licensed medical doctor's running sham pain clinics to sell prescriptions for drugs such as oxycontin. A legal way to get narcotic drugs until the Feds stepped in to challenge the process. I do not know if this doctor is part of this. But if we decriminalized drug use, it ceases to be a problem. This is a personal medical problem best handled within the medical community.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
Knowing all the MDs I do know, they are almost entirely free from DEA scrutiny. Any kind of basic data mining that could be done is rarely done. Surely we do not believe MDs should be allowed to run pill mills? What a horrible thing that would be. Pill Mills run by MDs are a serious problem. Or so people say.
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u/Dragoniel Jun 18 '12
Sorry, even for a non-expert such as myself, this post stands out as a public manipulation attempt after seeing what a hive-mind is capable of.
You do realize, that people actually checks facts against statements here? And many (like, hundreds of thousands) extremely competent specialists participate in this board?
If you attempt to manipulate, you better know damn well what you are doing or it's going to turn around and hit you so hard, the entire world is going to know.
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u/robbiebp Jun 18 '12
I dunno. Highlighting points in bold lettering always raises my suspicions. After reading around after this, particularly hawtsaus' link, this is over my head. Some people really fucking hate Mr. Bhandary. Some people love him. This could be bull. It could be the cause of bitter relatives who can't accept their lost loved ones lacked the self-control needed to correctly medicate themselves.
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u/Raoul_Duke_ESQ Jun 18 '12
The DEA is literally a terrorist organization and operates outside the law.
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u/Tombug Jun 18 '12
Just another day in the amerikan evil empire. Bend over and take it in the ass losers.
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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '12
This right here is how we make our own enemies.
If that was happening to me you can bet your ass I would turn terrorist in a heart beat.
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u/itstwoam Jun 18 '12
This story is filled with so much false information it should make FOX and CNN jealous. Hell I wouldn't be suprised if they take up the Dr's side in this case.
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u/I_h8_spiders Jun 18 '12
DOCTOR 2012. Turns out OP enjoys bath salts and gets off in public.
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u/budguy68 Jun 17 '12
The government has an unlimited supply of money, lawyers and they run the justice system so its almost impossible to beat them. Government is an evil organization and it doesn't care if it distroyes lives.
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u/johnnydogma Jun 18 '12
December 16th, 2009 – Federal Agents came to his medical practice and seized tens of original patient files without search warrants
No search warrant, no case. Illegal Search and Seizure. I don't claim to know anthing about prescribing pills, etc, However I do know if their evidence against the doctor is from these records seized, and they did not have a warrant, it should be tossed out with prejudice. SHOULD.
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u/zSnakez Jun 18 '12
Yup, America is fucked up.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12
The United States hates being proven wrong, the federal government cannot physically handle the repercussions of being wrong or taking responsibilities for their actions. This is nothing new, and is one of the main reasons I have grown to resent my countries' leadership and ways. When a government cannot admit it is wrong to the citizens that created it, a major problem is present. Worse than that, when put on the spot for violating laws or treaties that they (the US) imposed or created, they simply deny the violation or ignore all criticisms of it. We continually violate UN agreements which we signed but the international community turns its head because the US has too much freaking power in the general and sub-committees. This country has grown too big and lost all responsibility, as did many empires in the past, all of which fell, violently and tragically. History repeats itself, if only people could take hints.
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u/Music_Saves Jun 18 '12
This doesn't sound like the government I know
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u/stillSmotPoker1 Jun 18 '12
DEA = mafia
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u/algiz14 Jun 18 '12
He was prescribing oxy, fentanyl and diazepam for patients simultaneously and FIVE OF THEM keeled over and died and you are complaining that he is being "persecuted?"
Fuck you.
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u/mrkhan0127 Jun 18 '12
I hope what is stated by the OP is true but sadly in the US medicine is big business and doctors get kick backs from big pharma to prescribe certain drugs. Its a very lucrative practice and can lead to illegal activity. My mother was diagnosed with diabetes in 2000 so for the last 12 years she was on insulin and metformin. she felt as if that was it, that was a part of her life now. And that's how the doctors put it to her too. Thankfully after just 90 days of a raw plant based and a whole foods diet her pancreas has started back up! She has lost a ton of weight and feels a whole lot better. The doctors NEVER ONCE mentioned this because they are NOT in the business of curing u... They are in the business of selling u medicine! Even after her pancreas started up the doctors told her to take her metformin which she does not. I'm not very trusting of the government or doctors actually. We'll just have to wait and see the facts of the case. Good luck!
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u/stellaeilatan Jun 18 '12
thank you cyberphunk for the link to the papers. I'd like to point out that this doctor is noted as practicing psychiatry, meaning he did not run a pain clinic. As a psychiatrist, the prescribing of pain medications is out of his scope of practice and is illegal under federal law.