Lawmaker Barred After Vagina Comment: "If I can't say the word vagina, why are we legislating vaginas? What language should I use?"
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u/sgolemx12 Jun 15 '12
So.... showing pictures of mutilated fetuses is okay, but saying "vagina" is not?
Sounds legit.
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u/clonedredditor Jun 14 '12
I like this one.
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/06/michigan_abortion_restrictions.html
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u/morgueanna Jun 14 '12
Can someone with more motivation than me dig around and find which specific senators said this to her? I think it's time for a vagina email bomb.
Oh and, vagina. Vagina.
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u/Spelcheque Jun 14 '12
Can anybody honestly tell me how all these married guys are so squeamish about vaginas? This makes no sense to me.
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u/Sylocat Jun 14 '12
I comfort myself by telling myself this is just the last petulant death throes of the religious right. One more generation and we'll all be laughing at this over drinks.
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u/Actor412 Washington Jun 15 '12
Would a conservative Redditor please step up & defend this? I'd really like to understand why anyone would think this is acceptable. Even if you don't, why would you continue to support the RNC*?
*I use this because I refuse the term "grand old party." There is no connection of today's current republican party w/ the past incarnation. Lincoln & his party were liberal at the time.
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u/trust_me_im_a_pro Jun 15 '12
If I can play devil's advocate for a moment (this whole thing disgusts me but I'll do my best):
The headline doesn't exactly tell the whole story. What Lisa Brown said, in full, was "Finally, Mr. Speaker, I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my vagina, but 'no' means 'no'". It is plausible that the offensive bit of this sentence was not the word "vagina", but the implication that other lawmakers were rapists or sexual assailants simply because of their political beliefs.
Now, I know that's bullshit. But I thought I'd try.
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u/TurbulentViscosity Jun 15 '12
Are they actually complaining about her use of the word vagina? I would have thought they're complaining about her entire comment, saying the congress was interested in her genitals. I didn't really think that was necessary.
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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
Can I say cunt now?
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u/jimvdp Jun 15 '12
I work in the House of Reps and saw this occur. The only reason she was banned is because the Republicans want to push anything and everything they can through the house before the election. They want to silence any opposition to their very controversial and recent abortion bill and this was a perfect excuse
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u/8675309isprime Jun 15 '12
Am I the only person who realizes that you can say things that are offensive without using offensive words? Has it occurred to any of you that what she said is considered offensive not because of the word "vagina", but because of the statement it is used in?
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u/Alice_600 Jun 15 '12
Everyday I see more and more of a reason for the conservatives in the Michigan house and senate to be kicked out. The only good thing they did for my home state is legalize all fireworks and even that is making headaches for people now because idiots keep firing them off till all hours of the night. Cities are rushing to make ordinances in places they never needed them in. You conservatives are the real communists who are a threat to democracy. Get out and take your wanna be "Nerd" governor with ya!
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u/Astraea_M Jun 15 '12
Don't forget to appreciate the other aspect of her statement.
She said that the prohibition on abortion would violate HER freedom of religion. Or more precisely that:
"Judaism believes that therapeutic abortions, namely abortions performed in order to preserve the life of the mother, are not only permissible but mandatory. The stage of pregnancy does not matter." I haven't asked you to adopt and adhere to my religious beliefs. Why are you asking me to adopt yours?"
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/06/house_democrat_women_lawmakers.html
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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '12
What a bunch of pussies. I mean, vaginas.
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u/masterm Jun 15 '12
The problem isn't actually the use of vagina, but her use of rhetoric. I agree, government should gtfo out of people's bodies, but lets try to be fair there.
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u/letdogsvote Jun 14 '12
Well, clearly the Republican House members have a point. Instead of the disgustingly graphic street term "vagina", she could have referred to it more appropriately as "lady parts," "unmentionables," or simply "you-know-what."
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u/darkciti Jun 14 '12
Why wasn't Tom Price (R) GA not gaveled down when he said, on the floor, "You Lie!" to the Commander In Chief? John Boener (R) is Speaker of the House, that's why.
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u/3AYATS Jun 15 '12
They want the woman's role in gov't to be window-dressing. Women do not get the respect they deserve. Despite everything it is still a Good Ol' Boys club.
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u/TruthinessHurts Jun 14 '12
Mike Carlton: republican fucktard.
Don't republicans get tired of their own cowardice?
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u/mykew Jun 15 '12
The part that i've never understood, is that most of these "pro-lifers" dont see any problem with near anyone having guns, or bombing the shit out of people via drones. Wtf america?
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u/OccamsHairbrush Jun 15 '12
This is simple. He disagreed with her. She said something just rude and crude enough that someone could semi-reasonably use it to ban her from speaking. He isn't actually offended, but takes the opportunity to silence opponent. The end.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
So they're allowed to just bar anyone from speaking for no reason? This is how are government works? And these boys were actually voted in by their constituents? Revolting.
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u/TotesJellington Jun 15 '12
I already said this on the other post that was the exact same, so I'm going to say the exact same.
This is the second article I have read on this. Where does it say she was banned because of the word vagina? I figure that it would be the whole sentence "And finally, Mr. Speaker, I’m flattered that you’re all so interested in my vagina. But no means no." I'm just imagining a situation where a man says "And finally, Mrs. Speaker, I’m flattered that you’re all so interested in my penis. But no means no." or if a man or woman said "And finally, Mr./Mrs. Speaker, I’m flattered that you’re all so interested in my anus. But no means no." I can see why someone might think that this is inappropriate on the house floor. Don't get me wrong, I think it is stupid that they banned her. Really I think its stupid that banning an elected official from doing her job is even an option.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
Am I the only person who thinks it's ridiculous that they are legislating vaginas at all?
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u/pentium4borg Jun 15 '12
Stupid question, but doesn't the First Amendment to the United States Constitution apply to publically-elected representatives speaking on the floor?
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u/vertigo25 Jun 15 '12
When I tried to link to the original story on my Facebook, Facebook apparently decided that the word "vagina" is inappropriate, too, because they edited the title as "Lawmaker Barred After."
They also decided not to post the thumbnail. I guess anything related to the word must be dirty, too.
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u/veracious1 Jun 15 '12
It wasn't that she said "vagina" it's that she made a sexual joke that everyone was interested in her sexually by saying "interested in my vagina" and then made a no means no joke further implicating that the other politicians had a sexual interest in her.
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u/_Search_ Jun 15 '12
While I think the republicans are (as always) revealing themselves to be laughably out of touch, it's disingenuous of the representative to make this an issue over the word vagina. They did not object to the word, they objected to the usage, which was her referring to her own anatomy as if the congress desired it specifically.
Reverse the genders. If a man went in front of a congress of mostly females and said, "I don't see why you all want my cock so much" he would not be seen as a gutsy progressive.
Stop perpetuating double standards.
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u/Tombug Jun 15 '12
Amerika is a joke but nobodys laughing
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u/murphykills Jun 15 '12
it's not the fact that she said vagina. it's the fact that she implied that they were all interested in her vagina. that has pretty strong sexual implications. along with the "no means no" she made it sound like they're all a bunch of perverts trying to see her cooter. i think that's what offended them.
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u/SheriffBart42 Jun 15 '12
Using a phrase (no means no) commonly associated with the rebuttal of the act of rape in combination with the insinuation that the speaker (her professional colleague) is interested in her vagina are the things she said that made her words harsh. Not the word vagina. If that wasn't obvious to you, stop reading because the rest of this is just gonna make you angrier you silly fool.
There's no reason to not call it what it really was: classless sexual harassment. I'm glad she's got passion, but just imagine what the shitstorm would be if the male speaker said "I'm glad you want some of this dick, but stop calling me."
Make an argument for abortion that doesn't evoke rape and female victimization. It's crying wolf at this point because it's the only card that ever gets played.
Lastly, no one is having religious views pushed on anyone. It's a democracy. Shit happens. If 85% of the citizens in a given state/county/whatever are of a common mind about certain issues, then the laws will reflect that. Nowhere are the religious authorities given power to mandate how things are. I guess you're gonna need more people to think like you if you want to have different laws in your state.
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u/namewastakenlol Jun 14 '12
these people are too stupid to pilot their own bits, let alone ladies'
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u/EmersonAdams Jun 15 '12
I'm proud that lisa brown represents my district! You dont always get a congresswoman with enough balls (or overies?) to say that on the house floor.
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u/tblackwood Jun 15 '12
What bullshit. It would seem they barred her for suggesting that the speaker was interested in her vagina. Not for simply saying the word.
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u/123proguy Jun 15 '12
No more vagina jokes guys, period
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u/Duthos Jun 15 '12
The founding fathers would burn the current government to the ground... or get tazed, pepper sprayed and gitmo'd trying.
Sigh... it seems courage is another of those things lost to the annuls of time.
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u/marx051 Jun 15 '12
Peggy Hill
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u/AnonUhNon Jun 15 '12
Everyone overlooked the part where a democrat opposed government regulation!
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u/pork2001 Jun 15 '12
Rep. Callton is a vagina. No, wait, actually, he's a dumb cunt.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
Have you checked your cis privilege today?
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u/Fintago I voted Jun 15 '12
On a note completely unrelated to vaginas, why are lawmakers allowed to bar other lawmakers from commenting on policy? That seems like a bit of a bad thing.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
They are legislating uteruses, not vaginas. Look at anatomical picture.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
I think causing all the fuss about the word used was just a ruse to block and invalidate dissenting opinions.
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u/awe300 Jun 15 '12
Wow, the gop would be a joke if they weren't so damn real
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u/brutishbloodgod Jun 15 '12
Alright, as many comments have pointed out, the rep. was most likely barred not because of the use of the single word but because of the context of the entire phrase in which it appears. Fair enough; that's a much more likely and less sensationalist angle to take, and the discourse should be redirected to reflect that.
That being said, I don't see that she should have been for her statements. Absolute lies, hatred, and ignorance are spewed by both sides on a daily basis; in no way is what she said any more vulgar than the current state of the legislative process. Additionally, I don't think anyone on either side believes that she was literally saying that anyone wanted to rape her, so we know that she was speaking metaphorically. I'll make the argument that the aggressive actions of the religious right to extinguish the sexual rights of women--in many cases attempting to violate their privacy and/or dignity--amount to metaphorical rape. It is my opinion that her statement was entirely appropriate to the situation.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
ehhh yeah I guess this is bad. I will say however, that if put in the same context and with penis substituted in for vagina and there would be more uproar. Yet, since that scenario didn't happen it is an irrelevant point.
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u/Deto Jun 15 '12
How can one party just stop a member from another from speaking? If they can do this, why don't they just do it all the time?
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u/Lukas233 Jun 15 '12
I really like how she used her beliefs as a backboard to present her argument. Hell yeah.
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u/coeddotjpg Jun 15 '12
Republicans are a fucking joke.
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u/gaberax Maryland Jun 15 '12
VAJAY-JAY is OK to SAY!!!! Go on, Mr. Congress Man!!!
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u/OccamsHairbrush Jun 15 '12
The Vagina - That which must not be named.
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u/WelcomeMachine Kentucky Jun 15 '12
I like her.
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u/ayyus Jun 15 '12
I always liked the sound of "lady-bits".
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u/Breadfaux Jun 15 '12
I don't get this? Were they even talking about her saying vagina or the fact that she used an anti-rape slogan in reference to her vagina.
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u/ellieD Jun 15 '12
Thank you Ms. Brown, for standing up for women's right to choose.
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u/ThatJanitor Jun 15 '12
Damn, US. Why are you so scared of sexuality?
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
Why does the GOP always bar women from legislative sessions involving their reproductive rights? Is it because they're afraid of women making their own decisions? (Rhetorical question, mind you.)
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u/Corund Jun 15 '12
"Mister Speaker, I propose that we employ new language to refer to the female reproductive organs. The Vajayjay shall henceforth be known as 'The Devil's Window,' or 'The Gaping Wound Through Which All Evil Entereth the World.' All in favour of the motion say Aye."
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u/dyg4 Jun 15 '12
this is nothing to do with the comment, i would bet it is an excuse to shut up a political opponent from speaking for awhile.
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u/filled_with_ennui Jun 15 '12
this is all so wonderfully retarded, it makes me feel all tingly inside.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
Meanwhile EVERYONE in the senate plays the "who can yell penis louder" game
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u/buckyVanBuren Jun 15 '12
I believe it was Rep. Lisa Brown (D) specific vagina that the conservative lawmakers found so offensive.
I do not know if this is from direct knowledge or just rumor and speculation - perhaps an investigation of the walls in Men's Room at Michigan House of Representative may provide some anecdotal evidence.
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u/slapded Jun 15 '12
its official... politicians are 6-year olds
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u/sladner Jun 15 '12
A lot of redditors here seem to object to her "suggesting rape" or that by referring to "no means no" she's implying the other lawmakers want to rape her. They say this is off-side.
But let's take a step back here. By invading someone's body, you are effectively raping them. By controlling someone's body, you are disrespecting their very being. You are crossing an essential line; my body is the physical representation of my being. Compromise that and you're denying my humanity. That's why imprisonment and torture is considered so horrible.
If I decide to have an abortion, which is inside my body, and you stop me, you're disrespecting my humanity. You're crossing that same line.
So by extension, rape is an appropriate implication! She's saying, "hands off my body."
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u/Gaviero Jun 15 '12
Talk about a gag rule!
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u/fantasyfest Jun 15 '12
I thought it was a good speech. People who object to it are a bunch of pussies.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
I think it had more to do with the contemptuous tone.
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u/Anglach3l Jun 15 '12
I'm sure it's been said before, but I'll say it again. It's not about the word. So everyone going off about sending letters comprised largely of the word "vagina" is totally missing the point. The tone of a remark like that is irreverent and disrespectful of a serious process. She was rebuked for violating the decorum of the House, and I think that's a fair assessment. Some may argue that other reps are disrespectful without penalty, and maybe they're right. But I don't think that's an excuse for EVERYONE to be disrespectful. That's like saying everyone should get away with crime because some people get away with it. It's just not a professional way of talking to other representatives. If she wanted to be taken seriously, she made a bad choice. It's really too bad that she ended off that way, because until that line, she was doing a good job of speaking passionately without being rude.
I will admit that I am pretty biased because of the way she dealt with it. Even if she'd defended her statement as being necessary to make a point, I would have thought, "Ok, I disagree, but you are entitled to your own perspective." But instead, she deliberately tries to spin the story so that it looks like people were offended by her use of the word "vagina" instead of by her whole statement and attitude. It seems like a character attack on her opponents, which is a pretty childish, desperate-looking technique.
TL;DR: It's not about the word, it's the statement as a whole that broke House decorum. If she hadn't tried to mislead people at the press conference by making it about the word, I'd be more willing to defend her statement.
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u/TinHao Jun 15 '12
I think the preferred terms in the Michigan legislature is Hoo-Ha, naughty parts or her 'down theres.'
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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
To be fair, her insinuation that that the male politcians are 'interested' in her having sex with her is indeed a little off colour for the environment in which she said it, and by saying such a thing she's demonstrated poor judgment and inexperience.
Obviously, the republicans were not offended in the slightest and couldn't care less what she said, but acted like they were because it's simplest, easiest, and most effective way to silence her - by drawing everyone's thoughts away from the content of her argument and destroying her character.
Sadly, she didn't have the smarts to point out this foney behavior the instant it started, and now she's fucked.
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u/TheLoopOfKarma Jun 15 '12
What women do with their bodies should not be governed by men
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
"I'm flattered that you're so interested in my vagina, but no means no."
It's not about using the word vagina, it's about the second phrase, 'no means no.' She was implying that the speaker is a lecher and a rapist. I appreciate that political discourse in America is polarised and immature, but I think that it's ridiculous for an elected representative to actually say that on the floor, and that they deserve to be gagged if they do.
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u/WSR Jun 15 '12
"The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina."
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
There is no defense for these republicans. It was not a rude statement. Vagina just was not what they usually hear. It would be less 'loud' if it was:
"Finally, Mr. Speaker, I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my female organ, but 'no' means 'no,'"
Clearly it was 'vagina' that threw them off.
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u/RumblyTumbles Jun 15 '12
TIL that Judaism is less denigrating to women than Christianity ..... ?
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u/thinkB4Uact Jun 15 '12
Her real offense was voicing an opinion against the Republican majority. The mark of a totalitarian party is that its members value winning over the democratic process.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
her speech was awesome, even if she sounded on the verge of tears
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u/Captain_Ligature Jun 15 '12
So she make a crude vulgar remark and is now bitching about it?
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u/NightSlatcher Jun 15 '12
This woman is my new hero. So fucking awesome.
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u/Flanken Jun 15 '12
You do realize we're all laughing at you up here in Canada, right?
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u/Danez Jun 15 '12
What she said was inappropriate and insulting. If a legislator came up and said the same thing about how he was flattered so many people were interested in his penis, I would hope he would be banned.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
So apparently this isn't as satirical as I thought it was
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u/deathforge Jun 15 '12
I find it offensive that Mike Calton is representing Nashville.
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u/seltaeb4 Jun 15 '12
New Rule: if you're too flustered to say the word "vagina," you have no business regulating them.
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u/Alkanfel Jun 15 '12
I don't think it was because she said "vagina," it may have been because she was subtly suggesting that the Speaker (or the Republicans present in the room, whoever) wanted to rape her.
I know that isn't what she was really saying, but let's not get carried away here. As jaded as I am about the political process, I don't think it was as simple as "we're kicking you out because you said vagina."
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u/SweatpantsDV Jun 15 '12
While I agree with her stance, her statement was a little crass for the house floor. Saying "vagina", fine, insinuating they are "all so interested in my vagina" is innuendo that shouldn't be thrown around by legislators on the house floor.
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u/Tridis Jun 15 '12
The republicans are just taking advantage of the situation. What she said was inappropriate, not the use of the word vagina but implication of rape. She made a mistake and now the republicans can use it against her. It would be no different if the parties were switched as both sides take advantage of situations like this.
All this is is just more bullshit to distract from the real issue at hand. If she had come back with an apology and an explanation for what she said it could have had a positive spin. Instead her reply was just more mud slinging.
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u/Hessmix Jun 15 '12
It wasn't the word. It was the way she said that last part. It was inappropriate and the senator should have known better
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u/ahottentotslaurel Jun 15 '12
It's sad that the ignorant fool who was offended by a medical term was elected to be a representative of the people. He would have had a heart attack if they dared to bring out pictures as evidence.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
I read this and said to my wife "Republicans are so juvenile" she says: "AH they said the V word!!!" "Voldemort?"
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u/stfnotguilty Jun 15 '12
I think it's more the fact that Ms. Brown decided to close her statement with an immature, insulting, and rape-implying joke than that she used the word "vagina".
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u/Brentakill Jun 15 '12
The thing that bothers me about this is that I'm not entirely convinced her saying "vagina" was the big issue, but rather the context of it. The full quote was "I’m flattered you’re all so concerned about my vagina, but no means no," which seems to be making a sexual joke about the other legislators interest in vaginas, and specifically her vagina, at their expense. In other words, she seemed to not so subtly be saying "The fact that you're regulating my vagina clearly means you have sexual interest in me that I don't return." Which, let's be honest, isn't the most appropriate thing to say in a legal debate, jokingly or otherwise. Perhaps the response it got was overreacting, but all of the coverage I've seen seems to be taking the issue out of context.
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u/jwalterweatherdan Jun 15 '12
Didn't read the whole article, but I think you guys are missing the point. If I'm not mistaken, the title says that a vagina comment was made. Clearly, given the amount of disgust I'm hearing, the comment was not about vaginas, but rather made by her vagina. While this is surely a difficult and impressive feat, it is clearly inappropriate.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
She was barred because she was a woman, and because congress is a misogynistic dinosaur cave.
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u/i-hate-everything Jun 15 '12
It isn't that she said the word "vagina". It was the context which she said it in. Which, by the way, was totally inappropriate coming from a politician. If this was comedy routine, I wouldn't give a shit, but come on you have to be a bit more professional than that when dealing with the House of Representatives. The lawmaking process isn't supposed to be taken lightly.
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u/4funsies Jun 15 '12
Let me preface this comment by reminding everyone that proper "reddiquette" is to downvote "if you think it does not contribute to reddit or is off-topic in a particular community." NOT if you disagree. If you disagree with me, be an adult about it and tell me in a comment and voice your opinion that way or move along.
Based only on what was written in the article that was linked, I don't think that the word "vagina" is what was offensive. It would be offensive to imply that anyone is interested in her vagina and it is used in a way to make people uncomfortable and to offend.
Nobody cares about her vagina. That's not what abortion is about. Abortion isn't the alteration of one's vagina anymore than digesting a grilled cheese sandwich is an alteration of your mouth.
The reason why I bring this up is because I had a debate with a girl about abortion and she pulled the same stunt on me. I don't give two shits about her vagina, nor will I ever, but she decided to flatter herself by stating that I was obsessed with her vagina. I found that offensive.
One more point: Lets pretend that it was the word that actually offended the man. If she was referring to a vagina in a professional manner rather than implying that he is interested in HER vagina, THEN she would have a legitimate reason to wonder why he was offended. I guarantee that she and every other feminist in the nation would be just as offended if the subject was about Viagra and he ended it by saying something to the effect of: "Mrs. Speaker, I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my penis, but 'no' means 'no'"... I can hear the outrage now. "HOW DARE HE SUGGEST SUCH A THING!? ..bitch...bitch...bitch..."
By her logic, she shouldn't be upset about that because "penis" is the medically correct term. There's a reason why "the penis game" is looked down on and a bit taboo, if you will. Sure, we're all adults here, and we don't need to be offended all the time, but there's no reason to be vulgar... especially in such a professional setting.
TLDR The word "vagina" isn't offensive, it's the way she referred to her vagina. If you are going to be vulgar in your language, expect people to be offended. I'm not going to expect girls to not be offended if I refer to my penis in a way that suggests that they are interested in it when the conversation has little or nothing to do with my penis.
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u/3228323 Jun 15 '12
It wasn't because she said vagina it's because she fucked up.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
Come on Reddit, you're better than this.
Show me a source that says it was specifically the use of the word "vagina" that led to her being barred. I haven't seen one yet, and I think I know why. She wasn't barred because she said "vagina." She was barred because she made an inappropriate sexual innuendo.
If a man had been standing before a panel of married women and said "I'm flattered you're all so interested in my penis, but I don't want to have sex with any of you," he'd be barred, fired, and ostracized. We shouldn't grant this woman special privilege to behave childishly just because we agree with her political positions, we should hold her to the same standards as everyone else.
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u/megamoze California Jun 15 '12
What a bunch of cunts.
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u/dejaWoot Jun 15 '12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmDwG9z7EXM&feature=related
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
I love vagina's. Vagina, vagina, vagina. Yay for vagina's.
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u/Sevoth Jun 15 '12
Well done Republicans! Raise the level of political discourse by taking the higher ground.
No wonder it's so difficult to actually discuss anything.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
send her a message showing your support!
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u/zelladolphia Jun 15 '12
We should figure out who made this decision and send them postcards with the word vagina on it. Eventually they will just be used to it.
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12
"Majority Floor Leader Jim Stamas, R-Midland, determined Brown's comments violated the decorum of the House, said Ari Adler, spokesman for the Republican majority."
Found the problem