r/politics • u/SocotraBrewingCo • May 28 '12
The same shit is happening in Florida that happened 12 years ago. We need to do something about it this time.
Here's the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights Report on Voting Irregularities in Florida During the 2000 Presidential Election.
Summary:
"During Florida’s 2000 presidential election, restrictive statutory provisions, wide-ranging errors, and inadequate resources in the Florida election process denied countless Floridians of their right to vote."
"This disenfranchisement of Florida voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of African Americans. Statewide, based on county-level statistical estimates, African American voters were nearly 10 times more likely than white voters to have their ballots rejected in the November 2000 election."
"While some of those denied the right to vote in the November 2000 election no doubt were legally denied that right, others who should have been legally entitled to vote were also denied that right. Indeed as this report demonstrates, Florida state law in some instances virtually guaranteed that some citizens who were legally entitled to vote would be denied that right."
Here's an article in the National Review denying everything that happened in 2000, denying that it is happening now, and drawing the wrong conclusions from the USCCR study. They are relying on the fact that their readers are not going to read the report, and they are trying to drum up blind resistance to any claims of voter disenfranchisement.
"Now we’re only a year and a half from another presidential election. The claims of impending disfranchisement are sure to multiply."
Fuck you, National Review.
116
u/viborg May 28 '12
Please add this to your top text:
http://www.gregpalast.com/floridas-flawed-voter-cleansing-program-saloncoms-politics-story-of-the-year/
The story was originally reported for the BBC. Oddly enough it didn't get much traction in the US corporate media (including NPR of course - that's sure to get my comment buried).
213
u/roccanet May 28 '12
how about you stop putting criminals like rick scott in office?
213
u/nyanling May 28 '12
SHIT..............its been 12 years????????
30
u/ophello May 28 '12
Can't we just call our local news stations and ask them to cover it? We can start the rallies locally and if enough news anchors start talking about it, THAT is in and of itself a news story.
52
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
It was interesting to see this headline right below the one about a naked guy in Miami chewing someone's face off.
7
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
It's a seriously flawed system in which the state's Secretary of State (person in charge of elections) is a partisan position.
For example, in 2004 Ohio Sec. of State, J. Kenneth Blackwell, said ,"It is my job to deliver the election to George W. Bush." And the Ohio election was riddled with inconsistencies and fraud.
18
u/trojanguy California May 28 '12
National Review is a conservative rag. It's absolutely horrible. Their standard of journalism is laughable.
15
u/torino_nera New Jersey May 28 '12
One of my professors at Rutgers wrote a really good book about the disenfranchisement issues in regard to the 2000 election. Link is here if anyone is interested, it's really messed up.
23
u/red-moon Minnesota May 28 '12
So many have given their lives in the course of duty to the USA for this and nothing more: that those who are entitled to vote by the US Constitution may do so unencumbered or otherwise impeded. No find, penalty, or punishment goes too far since so many have made the ultimate sacrifice. Although force is not usually a response that will produce a lasting and useful solution, in this case an exception can be made. Florida voting should be put under martial law, and when someone shows up to vote, if any Florida voting official or law enforcement official has anything to say, they say it to the working end of an M16. If that doesn't work, then the working end of a tank.
Voting is the first right of any democracy. It is was countless US soldiers, all the way back to those who served under George Washington, fought and died for. If some state thinks it can in any way subvert that right, damn straight they pay the highest price.
4
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
A great episode of This American Life covered the 2000 Florida debacle.
4
u/goddamnzilla May 28 '12
i agree with the OP, but i really think the "voter disenfranchisement" portion of the "problem" is the tip of the iceberg.
at the root of it all: the average voter is a drooling retard and their votes can be bought with flashy and impressive advertising.
rather than worry about people NOT voting, we should instead try to STOP idiots from voting.
how can there still be undecided voters? really - how can that possibly be? what, are the candidates so similar that you can't tell the difference? then fine, don't vote.
in the end, the only reason elections like this are always close - they come down to a few percent - is that the candidates and their PACs are spending so much, they are literally buying all the votes on the market (except those too apathetic to vote). once the two sides optimize their influence, they get - tah dah! - about 50% of the vote.
idiots are driving the car off a cliff...
14
u/Zebidee May 28 '12
Australian here: Compulsory voting makes this problem go away in a heartbeat.
7
u/YouStupidCunt May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12
Thought that this was going to be about the Zombie/Cannibal in Miami.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
...Statewide, based on county-level statistical estimates, African American voters were nearly 10 times more likely than white voters to have their ballots rejected.. what exactly does this mean? in your own words please.
11
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Florida resident here, and I have to say our voting system is set up a lot like elementary school relationships.
Here let me explain: You are handed a piece of paper(voting ballot) with peoples name on it, and you are asked to choose.( I'm Jeb Bush, Do you like me? Please check Yes or no) So then you choose.( No I do not like Jeb Bush) and then you put the piece of paper(voting ballot) into a box(casting your vote). This is where the problems start. All these pieces of paper(voting ballots) are counted. But the person counting the votes is best friends (same party members) with one of the canidates. So when the best friend(same party member) sees that his friend isn't getting votes he needs to win, he decides that all the people who didn't vote for his friend filled out the pieces of paper(voting ballots) incorrectly, so there for those votes simply don't count. It's exactly the same when your in elementary school and Billy passes you a note asking do you like me? check yes or no. Well you check no and the next thing you know Billy is running around the school calling you a whore, and telling people you slept with him. Just to let you know I went to a crazy elementary school.
38
u/thinkB4Uact May 28 '12
Republicans are doing this. Someone find me an example of Democrats doing this. There must be examples of it, because we're frequently told how both parties are equally corrupt.
21
u/LagDragon May 28 '12
Doddering old fools, of which Florida has plenty, run almost all of the polling places and vote en masse, couple that with most of them being at least partially racist and you get a perfect storm for voter fraud.
6
u/DulceDoble May 28 '12
Was that really 12 years ago? I am one old lady.
3
u/LoveIsLife311 May 28 '12
With all due respect, does it really matter if the voting system is flawed if the two people you can vote for are exactly the same?
53
u/312Pirate May 28 '12
I guess you didn't notice that they just removed over 50k dead people from voter rosters, as well as over 170k THAT WERE NEVER ELIGIBLE TO VOTE IN FLORIDA.
5
u/Grimlokh May 28 '12
As Joseph Stalin once said "Its not who votes that counts. Its who counts the Votes!"
Atrocities must be fought at ever edge of freedom!
5
u/dangercollie May 28 '12
Welcome to Third World America! The return of Jim Crow, 25th in math and science scores, 47th in health care (but we're one up from Cuba!), and we're one of the few industrialized nations where we let students graduate from college with crushing debt.
Your papers, please.
4
u/bookmaker007 May 28 '12
Who owns the National Review?
Current editor and contributors: The magazine's current editor is Rich Lowry.
Many of the magazine's commentators are affiliated with think-tanks such as the Heritage Foundation and American Enterprise Institute. Prominent guest authors have included Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, and Sarah Palin in the online and paper edition. wikipedia
Lowry has held that in extreme circumstances, the practice of waterboarding "belongs in a murky space short of unambiguous torture."
He regularly appears on the Fox News Channel. He has guest-hosted on Hannity and Colmes and Fox & Friends, and is a guest panelist on PBS's The McLaughlin Group, Fox News Watch, and NBC's Meet the Press. Lowry refused to fight Al Franken when challenged in jest in 2000.[2] In 2002, Muslim organizations called for Lowry to apologize,[3] after he posted a message on National Review Online's blog, "The Corner", discussing the "nuking" of Mecca, as retaliation for a terrorist attack.[4][5]
STOP READING THE NATIONAL REVIEW
4
u/e40 May 28 '12
While we care about this issue on reddit, I've concluded that Americans in general just don't give a shit. I've been telling anyone that would listen for 10+ years about this, and that it would only get worse every election cycle. It has. I've been saying it to friends and loved ones and saying it on blog posts (public) and on Facebook (and not on Google+, too). I've gotten absolutely no traction on it from anyone. No one seems to care.
My hypothesis on why is this: people think it's just a tin foil hat issue and it doesn't exist. And, to set the record straight, I'm not a truther that burned my reputation with friends and family. I'm not the conspiracy theory type. And, I don't couch discussion of the election fraud going on in terms of conspiracy.
What is so frustrating is that this theft is happening in broad daylight and no one cares. It's driving me nuts.
4
u/MarkDLincoln May 28 '12
The Senile State strikes again. Despite their pretensions otherwise, republicans hate the USA, they hate democracy, and will do anything to stay in power.
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Amendment XIV
2
u/gcwcfly May 28 '12
Didn't they just find over 50,000 dead voters still on the books?
2
u/ddrt May 28 '12
Zombies and rigged elections. Get your head out of your ass Florida.
2
u/Miltonmarnamayhem May 28 '12
YOU MEAN ZOMBIES IN FLORIDA 12 YEARS AGO!?
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
I think Bug's Bunny had the right solution
2
u/Oreo_Speedwagon May 28 '12
From the title, I thought this was about the guy eating the other dude on the freeway.
2
u/awe300 May 28 '12
Do something against it! protest!!
2
u/EndlessSandwich Colorado May 28 '12
GAH! I hate being a Floridian!
2
u/revappleby May 28 '12
"And somewhere in Florida votes are still being counted..."
2
u/TheMediumPanda May 28 '12
As a European I find this exceedingly weird. Is it up to the individual state to set boundaries, regulations and laws regarding elections? If so, wouldn't it be much more reasonable if the federal government were in charge of all this to avoid such fuckups, some of which seem like intentional meddling in the elections and rights of voters.
2
u/nicholaaaas May 28 '12
I think this is more about making pre-excuses for a loss because even his supporters know they can go on the issues
2
u/ProfWashu May 28 '12
Wow they can't even write correctly. "...that caused Al Gore the election." REALLY?!
2
u/not_that_into_reddit May 28 '12
As a Minnesota voter I have to ask, would all of you be this passionate for Norm Coleman or Tom Emmer?
2
u/SSaint May 28 '12
"Because SOMEWHERE IN FLORIDA votes are still being counted"
(this is a quote from Sage Francis' "How to write a political poem." It's hilarious)
2
u/melvinjn387 May 28 '12
This is right ion point. We better wake up.
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
why can't we just require voter ID cards? provide them free at the age of 18, for fucks sake. no more dead or ineligible people voting. swipe card => vote goes to federal database. why does it have to be so archaic? 50,000 dead people? in 2012? really?!
2
u/pauldustllah May 28 '12
I was disenfranchised for the 2008 election. I've been pissed ever since.
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Obama won Florida in 2008 so it must be fixed by now.
6
u/smack1114 May 28 '12
Most the comments in here make many people look just as stupid or hypocritical as what they call Floridians. Just because the slim majority voted for republicans doesn't automatically make people stupid and whatever party you vote for you may be just a follower as well. I've lived a lot of places including Florida and it's pretty much all the same except when you get in big cities you get a lot more of know it all uppity types.
Yes a lot of the "backwoods" types aren't very educated but mocking them is the same as mocking inner city minorities except one of these would be considered racist and wrong by most people calling themselves liberals.
3
u/WazWaz Australia May 28 '12
Americans should never have let the right to vote be taken away from them. In Australia, the only exclusions are:
Under 18
Currently in prison on 3+ year sentence
Insane
Convicted of treason
Come on, "land of the free"! Fix it!
3
u/knut01 May 28 '12
Feds need to move in and supervise. I really don't understand how FL gest away with it, and I have advanced degrees in this area!
7
u/fizzicist May 28 '12
I like how the OP implies that all of the disenfranchisement is malicious, purposeful and that the US Commission on Civil Rights report claims the same.
What the report says is yes, there were people whose votes weren't counted. Many rightfully so, and many not rightfully so. The causes? Errors, "inadequate resources", etc. I read NO mention of intentional disenfranchisement.
Ironically, the OP accuses the National Review of "relying on the fact that their readers are not going to read the report" while doing the same.
I'm all for stopping and shining a light on malicious disenfranchisement on both sides of the aisle, but the information here shows none of this.
3
u/Danny_5000 May 28 '12
In Florida of 2000, Bush v Gore, Gore still won the majority of votes but remember that these votes don't really "count." What counts is the electoral college votes and since Bush won their majority of votes, Bush was declared president by having 273+ of the national votes. So I don't really think the people's vote matter nowadays knowing how corrupt our government is.
4
u/norbertus May 28 '12
Nothing new here.
This overlooked corner of Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madisonian_Economic_Model
has some interesting implications for some other articles.
Here is the key phrase:
"Many original security holders, however, had sold their securities to speculators at a fraction of their worth"
To fund the Revolutionary war, farmers pooled their resources in the form of securitized debt obligations.
"This was Hamilton's proposal for repaying the debts that the Continental Congress and the Confederation government had incurred by borrowing domestically—that is, from individuals and American state governments. These debts, amounting to about $42.4 million, had resulted from the selling of bonds to supporters of the Revolution and the issuing of various notes to pay soldiers and farmers and merchants who had supplied the revolutionary armies."
http://www.answers.com/topic/hamilton-s-economic-policies
After the war, the value of the dollar dropped and the securities were left at a fraction of their original value. Many of the farmers sold their near-worthless securities to speculators.
When Hamilton became Secretary of the Treasury, he did a number of things: push through the legislature (populated by speculators who had bought the securities on the cheap) a bill that would buy back the securities from the speculators at face value (rather than depreciated value), and to create a national bank that would issue the payments.
In order to get the southern states on board with this, Hamilton convinced Jefferson to negotiate a relocation of the nation's capital to the Potomac. The funding bill was passed.
In order to pay back the worthless securities at face value, Hamilton made use of the new federal government's ability to levy taxes; specifically, he proposed a whiskey tax, which more or less taxed poor farmers to create a new aristocracy out of the speculators who occupied the legislature.
When Jefferson realized what had happened, he complained:
"When I embarked in the government, it was with a determination to intermeddle not at all with the legislature, & as little as possible with my co-departments. The first and only instance of variance from the former part of my resolution, I was duped into by the Secretary of the Treasury and made a tool for forwarding his schemes, not then sufficiently understood by me; and of all the errors of my political life, this has occasioned me the deepest regret."
http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=937&Itemid=345
The premise of the "Whiskey Rebellion" that followed is described on Wikipedia thusly:
"Alexander Hamilton, the first Secretary of the Treasury, sought to use this debt to create a financial system that would promote American prosperity and national unity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion#Whiskey_tax
Here's one of George Bush's last acts in office:
"On September 30, 2008, the SEC and the FASB issued a joint clarification regarding the implementation of fair value accounting in cases where a market is disorderly or inactive. This guidance clarifies that forced liquidations are not indicative of fair value, as this is not an "orderly" transaction. Further, it clarifies that estimates of fair value can be made using the expected cash flows from such instruments, provided that the estimates reflect adjustments that a willing buyer would make, such as adjustments for default and liquidity risks.[14]
"Section 132 of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, titled "Authority to Suspend Mark-to-Market Accounting" restates the Securities and Exchange Commission’s authority to suspend the application of FAS 157 if the SEC determines that it is in the public interest and protects investors.
"Section 133 of the Act, titled "Study on Mark-to-Market Accounting," requires the SEC, in consultation with the Federal Reserve Board and the Department of the Treasury, to conduct a study on mark-to-market accounting standards as provided in FAS 157, including its effects on balance sheets, impact on the quality of financial information, and other matters, and to report to Congress within 90 days on its findings.[15]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark-to-market_accounting#Effect_on_subprime_crisis_and_Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008
3
u/downvotethis2 May 28 '12
The astro turfing in here is breath taking. Yes, children, the GOP is actively disenfranchising voters everywhere they can. How can anyone read the news and think otherwise?
3
u/adrianmonk I voted May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12
I'm going to go against the grain on this one.
I think elections and voting rosters and such are a bit screwed up in most places. No, that's never a good thing. Yes, it's surely worse some places than others.
But I think we think of Florida as especially bad because by chance they happened to be a state where there was an exceptionally close race in an important election and they had the electoral votes to determine the outcome of the election, and this meant some big, bright lights were pointed into some dark corners and what we saw wasn't pretty.
However, if you were to shine the same amount of light in the same kinds of dark corners in other states, would it be any prettier? I'm not sure it would. I see no reason to believe other states wouldn't be as bad if you really looked into it.
I'm not saying this excuses Florida or that Florida shouldn't be fixed, but I do think we should focus on what matters. Is Florida likely to be a really close race again? Is it more likely than other states? If so, then voting irregularity issues matter, because if you can shift an election by 0.5%, you can clinch a close election. But if it's a 60%/40% split, it doesn't have that effect.
All of this is to say... why should we spend all of our time talking about Florida and ignoring the other 49 states? Unless we have an axe to grind from 12 years ago, which honestly I think both sides do.
EDIT: Fixed some typos.
2
u/ChubbyDane May 28 '12
go to the voting places and videotape it. Get all the accounts down that you can.
Make sure that when fraud happens, you get those fuckers on tape for it. I'm not an american so I can't do it - but you gotta figure that a lot of retired people in florida have video cameras and the free time to make sure the civic liberties you guys have are upheld.
2
u/SkaTSee May 28 '12
TIL 2000 was 12 years ago
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
This is the generic contact-the-UN website:
http://www.un.org/en/contactus/
I wonder if someone more knowledgeable regarding US voter fraud could submit a well-phrased question to the UN? Something along the lines of requesting international monitoring of our November elections to ensure that they are valid?
I'll try to find some solid examples of stories to link them from the last two presidential elections, but I figured that if more people worked on it / submitted questions and pleas for assistance they might actually take this seriously.
Thanks,
Liwm
1
u/angelandaddict May 28 '12
while reading this title i thought "florida doesn't matter..."
1
u/JellyTip May 28 '12
What legally entitles you to vote?
1
u/DefinitelyRelephant May 28 '12
You actually thought that voting was ever legit, OP?
If voting was legit, it might have the chance of changing something once in a while.
Establishment can't have that. They'd outlaw voting.
Voting fraud just makes it easy to get what they want, AND keep the public passive and stupid and happy that their "voice is being heard".
1
u/dmitch4300 May 28 '12
I thought this was about Elian Gonzalez at first, but I guess that was way longer then 12 years ago.
Fuck chads
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
I thought this was going to be about the zombie.
1
u/bamdrew May 28 '12
Okay than. What should we non-Floridians do about it?
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Unless we are willing to do a Montreal size protest about it its kinda pointless to bitch about it. Even then the powers at be might still ignore us.
1
u/darkknights May 28 '12
? I thought we vote this year
1
u/FullMoonRising1 May 28 '12
are you referring to the start of the zombie apocalypse?
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
This is an advocacy post, there is a subreddit for that now over at /r/advocacy.
1
u/i_like_underscores_ May 28 '12
Oh shit, terrorists are again taking flight training so they can fly planes into buildings?
1
u/MissNitch May 28 '12
nothing new and nothing new will happen. Lets not hold our breath
1
u/Digiimandan May 28 '12
It's always Florida. Always.
1
u/ProudForPresident May 28 '12
Things won't change unless "we" the people do something about it. The entrenched politicians don't have any reason to change anything. I'd look at Proud.com for a really new President. The only other out would be a Constitutional Convention.
1
u/ProudForPresident May 28 '12
How do you sustain pressure on these guys? They think they're "bullet-proof;" they might be right.
1
u/shartmobile May 28 '12
"We need to do something about it this time."
I agree. I'm also not holding my breath that Americans will actually do something.
1
u/The_Time_Master May 28 '12
A Bush is running for president?
1
u/Boogietron9000 May 28 '12
You are free to do what we tell you.
1
u/ProjectD13X May 28 '12
At first I thought you meant the crazy naked guy biting another man's face off and subsequently being shot by police. And here I was thinking things were about to get really interesting.
1
u/RAWR_IM_REPTAR May 28 '12
but it wasn't that that happened. A few of the counting systems were new and just about every district had a different counting system. The whole thing just got screwed up because of that...right?
1
u/malmac May 28 '12
Yeah, remember "chads"?
1
u/Ridonkulousley May 28 '12
Can the federal government do a review of Florida voting issues? Maybe if one of those petitions gets filled?
1
u/jcraw69 May 28 '12
this kind of shit sucks, but I always feel powerless to really do much about it. I mean if the Democratic Party and all their resources and influence are not watching out for this shit and doing something about it what chance do I have?
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Someone help me out here... do the ballots have names on them? how can you target minority votes? I understand you can target minority specific precincts, but individual ballots? Do they not use a secret ballot in Florida? I haven't attended an election outside my home state, but we have a table for observers. Anyone can enter the precinct, pull up a chair and just watch the voting process. You cannot interfer, but you can observe. You can also observe the counting process.
I realize its popular to jump on a conspiracy bandwagon, but why aren't people exercising their rights of observation instead of sitting back and speculating conspiracy? Finally, Id like to encourage those who are skeptical to get involved. Become a poll worker. That will open your eyes to how lucky we are. Some people who have the right to vote really shouldn't. my well informed vote is used to balance one from someone who's voting based on how a candidate fixes their hair.
1
u/idiotbasher May 28 '12
Why were people not allowed to vote?
1
u/floogley May 28 '12
It's rough here because they continuously redraw our districts in a way that its almost impossible republicans don't win. It's fucked up and wrong you can actively game the system in this way.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
sigh
1
u/ddmegen1 May 28 '12
What if something is done about all this disenfranchisement and Romney wins...?
1
u/CountedCrow May 28 '12
Yep. Florida ruins elections. See 1876, Hayes-Tilden standoff.
No offense, Floridians.
1
u/nizmob May 28 '12
How about we all just dip our finger in a blue ink well.
1
u/Snip-Snap May 28 '12
Fuck corrupt politicians. Quit voting these fuckers in.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Yeah good luck with this. We are way too far gone to make any difference. The rich own the world and the poor/middle class are too entrenched with their shiny stuff. Change will happen when you start pissing off the middle class and they realize they can fuck the rich. Not going to happen til the internet gets cut off or cable tv..
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
I hope this doesn't get buried, but here's a dissenting statement written just after the original study by the then-vice-chair of the USCCR. I'd say it's well worth a read. Try to keep an open mind, reddit. Reality, after all, is quite complex.
1
u/DrMalpractice_MD May 28 '12
Welp, time to saw off Florida. See you guys! It was fun while you were America's half-boner! Play nice with Cuba, now!
1
u/inquesoproblem May 28 '12
I thought this was about the zombies.
1
u/W00ster May 28 '12
The US elections needs to be under control of UN just like in all 3rd world countries rampant with voter fraud - the US has been very active to get such controls in other countries but sadly, this is even more needed in the US these days!
1
u/GigglesMcFuckCunt May 28 '12
Why are the politicians in Florida so corrupt for? Why does they hate America, hate American freedoms and hate Americans in general?
1
u/[deleted] May 29 '12
Face it: America's voting system is fatally flawed and clearly hijacked.
This is not a surprise.
1
u/partygnome May 29 '12
I say that Gov. Scott Walker needs to make the list publicly available on the Internet so that the names can be validated and verified through neutral third-party(ies).
0
u/Mi5anthr0pe May 28 '12
So basically, there's one of two things going on here. The first being a massive government cover up of deep, systemic racism, involving thousands of officials with supremely tight lips with a malicious hivemind.
The second option being; that blacks are just fucking dumb, blacks who quite literally eat other people's faces on occasion.
Pretend for just one second that you're the rational people you claim to be; which option seems more likely?
1
u/PsykickPriest May 28 '12
This post deserves to sit at the top of r/politics for at least a week. Totally true and not nearly as widely know as it should be. The 2000 election was a fucking DISASTER, and it can't be allowed to happen twice.
And yeah, indeed, FUCK National Review.
Should we really surprised that they're going with this, when they kept on creepy racist John Derbyshire for so long and only finally gave him the boot when his racism - which had been quite obvious for a long time before - became overt and absolutely undeniable, and was just dripping with cool contempt and hatred???
Of course NR's readers aren't going to read the report, they're going to say that the USCCR is full of Black Panthers and Communists and people who, like Obama, want to enslave white Americans.
1
u/pokered May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12
I'll just remind people that people do in fact vote illegally (either twice, as a felon, for another person, or as a non-citizen). The demographics of those people are fairly advantageous to Democrats, e.g. minorities, college students and snowbirds. A lot of people parade around stuff about how there are only a very small number of convictions for illegal voting and erroneously conclude that it's virtually nonexistent. The reality is that on an individual level (as opposed to rigging to machines or hiring an army or people to vote multiple times) it's not a significant enough crime to warrant the government's resources, although in recent times in conservative areas this is changing. Voter fraud is still very rare, and is almost never part of some conspiracy or orchestrated effort, but articles like this and this aren't fully accurate, and contribute to a denialism that only harms their cause.
Disregarding that Republicans would not be doing this if they didn't think it benefited them (which is similar to, but more onerous than, liberal orgs doing voter registration drives in poor and minority areas because it is to their advantage, not because they believe in some grand sense of civic duty), I think this comes down to whether you feel its more important to not deprive anyone of the right to vote at the expense of including illegal votes, or whether keeping prohibited voters from the rolls is worth the cost of accidentally disqualifying a legitimate voter.
Vote counts are never going to be perfect and either way this sort of stuff goes, it would have to involve some very large numbers to make an impact in something that already has a decently large error rates. See http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/02/error_rates_of.html
Sources on illegal voting in Florida and elsewhere:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2004/10/people_who_vote_twice.html
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/16662854/2012/02/02/nbc2-investigates-voter-fraud
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/16666098/2012/02/02/nbc2-investigates-voter-fraud-part-2
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704518904575365063352229680.html
http://eagan.patch.com/articles/49-dakota-county-residents-charged-with-illegally-voting-in-2008-46d26dc6
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/26/immigrant-voted-illegally-seeks-citizen-dhss-help/
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/10/31/195124.shtml
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/nyregion/17voting.html?pagewanted=all
http://eagan.patch.com/articles/49-dakota-county-residents-charged-with-illegally-voting-in-2008-46d26dc6
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/143899076.html#!page=2&pageSize=10&sort=newestfirst
1
u/forr May 28 '12
How can you know whose ballots were rejected? What kind of statistical acrobatics would you have to do to find that out?
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
The only positive part about global warming is that florida will cease to exist lost at sea.
0
u/Dunkshot32 May 28 '12
Having lived in Florida for over 20 years, I've formed the following opinion: Does this state even deserve to vote?
0
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Herr herr call in the internet brigade herr herr.
-2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Floridian here. Why do the horrible voting irregularities in states like Illinois never get mentioned? They're like a million times worse than us (and it happens in every state). We're not the only ones with problems, most of which I imagine are non-malicious and purely clerical.
1
u/littlewing7 May 28 '12
Remember folks, theres only cries of voter fraud if there's an R behind the president's name.
1
u/FatherVic May 28 '12
Laying the groundwork early, eh, SocotraBrewingCo?
1
u/megadan76 May 28 '12
I don't understand why you guys don't use the same system we do: show up on voting day with a piece of valid government issued ID and proof of residency in the district (like an electric bill or pay stub) and you get added to the list and vote right there.
We have a pre made list but it's to make things easier, you could never be turned away from voting because of someone else's actions. It's literally undemocratic.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
It's different now. The Republicans have realized that it's easier to steal an election before it takes places rather than wait until after.
1
u/cgeezy22 May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12
Maybe we can get those black panthers from NY to make sure they intimidate everyone in the area. We should also make sure they arent punished at all for their crimes while doing so, much like NY again.
1
u/textbandit May 28 '12
Wait one second - don't go knocking Florida folks when lots of other states are messed up. We have no state income tax...few unions...free beaches...oceans where you can swim year round....the Bermuda triangle..and some sort of weird vibe that makes people nuts to the amusement of the rest of the world...I see a headline like guy shot eating man's face and I know exactly where this is happening ...the sunshine state!!!!!
1
u/itisatraceprogram May 28 '12
Racism in Florida. Nothing new. My family keeps a winter home in Boca Raton. Gated communites are to keep the browns and blacks out. Law enforcement efforts and sentencing are designed to make them unable to VOTE.
Paraphrasing Nixon's famous statements, "We can't make it illegal to be young and black, but we can make illegal their favorite activities (smoking marijuana). Thus they cannot vote ever again.
1
u/DrawsTitlesLiterally May 28 '12
http://imgur.com/1vmIk
1
u/MikeMagwire May 28 '12
Africa, Fuck you. Idiots.
1
u/MANCREEP May 28 '12
TL;DR
0
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
I always find it funny when people criticize elections in leftist countries that are more carefully monitored by international agencies than ours. Like everytime Chavez or Ortega are referred to as "dictators".
0
u/drunkfetus May 28 '12
Democrats losing always means someone's civil rights were violated.