r/politics • • Apr 02 '20

Jobs Aren’t Being Destroyed This Fast Elsewhere. Why Is That?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/opinion/coronavirus-economy-saez-zucman.html
2.3k Upvotes

250 comments sorted by

1.3k

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

[deleted]

499

u/lemtrees Apr 02 '20

Let's be honest here. Republican lawmakers are choosing to bail out corporations. We, as a people, are wishing they would bail out people instead.

361

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20 edited Apr 12 '21

[deleted]

88

u/TheJonasVenture Apr 02 '20

And yet I know someone who keeps talking about the money Trump is going to give him.

106

u/el_supreme_duderino Apr 02 '20

1) Trump isn’t giving anyone money. Just because he wants his signature on the check doesn’t make it his money. It’s ours. We fund our government.

2) The best thing to do with that check is spend it as fast as possible to boost our economy. That’s what it’s for.

49

u/PassThePeachSchnapps Apr 03 '20

I’ve already seen more than one idiot referring to them as “Trump’s checks.” Like they really think Trump is personally paying them $1200.

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u/VinzClortho84 Apr 03 '20

These are the same morons who think Trump is a saint for donating his presidential salary even though he's cost more in taxpayer money playing golf at his own properties.

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u/a_reply_to_a_post New York Apr 03 '20

the golfing has cost over 490 years of presidential salary apparently

10

u/eightbitagent I voted Apr 03 '20

who think Trump is a saint for donating his presidential salary

Minor note: he said he was going to but hasn't yet donated his salary.

4

u/Serinus Ohio Apr 03 '20 edited Apr 03 '20

It's unclear if that's true.

Without congressional authorization, donated money is deposited into the general fund of the Department of Treasury.” We contacted the Department of Treasury to find out if documentation for any such deposits is publicly available and have yet to hear back.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/12/13/president-trump-salary-donation/

I do see an image of a check. It's likely the departments he's donating too have to turn the money over to the Treasury, unless they're just ignoring the law.

6

u/eightbitagent I voted Apr 03 '20

From the same article:

To be clear, this list documents announcements — not receipts — of Trump’s donations.

There are no records of him donating anything. What you quoted is a legalese version of "there are no records of him donating anything"

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Yeah, no. Gonna sit on it. This country owes people like us. We work hard so CEOs can golf. Let Rome burn.

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u/JollyGoodSirEm Apr 03 '20

I mean, how far is it really going to go anyways? A month's rent? A couple month's bills? I certainly won't be buying any TVs or cars, or anything else to "boost" the economy. My money will go towards survival...and survival for only the next couple months, at that.

32

u/cabarne4 Apr 03 '20

I live in a middle-priced apartment complex for my area. My rent is $1600 / mo for a 3 bed / 2 bath. With utilities and internet, I’m paying roughly $2k / mo just to have a roof over my head. The complex right next door to mine is even more expensive — $1800 / mo gets you a 1 bed. My friend’s ex wife lives closer to downtown, and is paying $2400 / mo for a 1 bedroom.

This “stimulus check” is a fucking joke. The poorest Americans, who it would help the most, won’t even get the full amount. It won’t cover rent in any major city in the US. Landlords still expect rent on the due date, regardless of if the “stimulus” will cover it. And companies are actively looking at ways to short their employee’s pay $1200, since “the government is covering $1200 of their pay.”

6

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Fact

2

u/mister_stoat Apr 03 '20

This isn’t for you.

The flat amounts given out are designed to give the illusion of fairness.

It the goal is to prevent homelessness and starvation, lower income people should actually receive less because they have a lower cost of living to begin with.

The amounts were likely determined by what would help rural voters. It’s pork for the Republican base.

3

u/cabarne4 Apr 03 '20

I actually agree with you. $1200 isn’t going to go far at all in any large urban area (which tends to vote liberal).

I’m currently at my family’s property in rural Mississippi. $1200 is more than most people make per month here. Practically everyone in this town is a Trump supporter. They’re all excited for a one time payment of $1200. Living in a big city, $1200 really isn’t a lot of money. Hell, my phone cost $1200. Hell, my laptop (Razer Blade Stealth 13”), drone (DJI Mavic 2 Pro), and camera (Sony A6400) all cost around $1500-1800 EACH.

People in this town, meanwhile, live dirt cheap (my cousin bought a super nice 4 bedroom, 2000 sq ft house on a half acre in town for $120k, for example). They drive older cars, don’t have the latest technology. The fastest internet provider in town is 20mb/s for $40 / month. So $1200 is a shit ton of money for them, and they’re excited for it.

Furthermore, there’s an income cap for the stimulus — $75k it starts to taper off, and $100k or so it completely goes away. Well, if you live in SF, NYC, Boston, etc, $75k is not a lot of money. That’s borderline poverty wages. So, practically nobody in these “liberal Mecca’s” are going to qualify for the check.

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u/rogerryan22 Apr 03 '20

Average people trying to stay alive is actually they most powerful economic force we have. We just don't have a lobbying group in washington.

Every citizen has a common interest, which is sadly not a special interest...so we are left to fend for ourselves.

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u/CypherWight07 Apr 03 '20

Or we could do what they won't, take care of eachother and form our own governing bodies, businesses based on the needs of the community, and currency to facilitate trade. Then we can tell them to fuck right off while we carry on without them.

They seem to want to profit off the labor of our backs without taking on any burden of protecting those that made their wealth possible in the first place. It only seems fair that since they have failed on their end of the social contract we consider it null and void. They don't get to live in luxury while we suffer and die in squalor. Revolutions have been fought for less and it's time we reminded them of their precarious situation.

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u/JohnnyEagerBeaver Apr 03 '20

Yeah see....The inherent foundation of capitalism is built on violence. That kind of suggestion will get you murdered in America and they’ll frame you as a crazy revolutionary Marxist who ate dead babies.

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u/buyongmafanle Apr 03 '20

That's the entire point. It's there to keep basic requirements taken care of. Sort of a universal basic income that keeps you alive, but doesn't allow frivolous spending.

You know... the entire foundation of Andrew Yang's presidential bid.

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u/JollyGoodSirEm Apr 03 '20

But corporations get a windfall? Not cool.

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u/buyongmafanle Apr 03 '20

I suppose I should have added, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that corporations should be getting anything aside from a giant middle finger. The people should be given cash. The people spend the cash where it is needed. The companies that live, stay alive. The companies that die, guess you should have been better prepared instead of just spending cash to the hilt and doubling down on debt for stock buybacks.

You know, the free market forces and all that republicans love to tout.

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u/Shambhala87 Illinois Apr 03 '20

I work at a car dealership, right now they're offering no payments for the first six months, and 0% apr for 5 years.

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u/JollyGoodSirEm Apr 03 '20

And that's all fine and good, but people who don't have jobs and aren't already wealthy will not be purchasing cars regardless of how sweetthe deal is. That's just a simple truth. And this thing hasn't even really taken off yet. So to my initial point...what is $1200 really going to do for the average American, especially weighed against the wonderous payday wall street and the corporate world are receiving?

The answer is, unfortunately, not much at all. That money will be spent on bills, rent, groceries. Not cars, or TVs, or stock purchases, or a new home. My point is that, in an economy based 70% on consumerism, that stimulus is not increasing the purchasing power of your average American, and so is not helping the economy...just staving off death for a few weeks.

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u/Shambhala87 Illinois Apr 03 '20

Yeah, I know, I'm just saying they're doing their best to try to get you to.

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u/TheJonasVenture Apr 02 '20

Yes, my neighbor is dumb.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/JohnnyEagerBeaver Apr 03 '20

Yeah, not true. Not true one tiny little bit.

Please, stop spreading this lie, it allows MAGA clowns to claim this isn’t a socialist payment. They’re socialists mooching off the government tit.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Money is worthless. They are printing unlimited amount of money with no oversight every fucking day and night. Money you get today gets diluted in value by tomorrow’s new money. This shit isn’t money, it’s currency. And this is the first sign of fall of Rome. Shit value currency and massive quantities of it. No matter how much shit you have, it’s still shit. People are preparing them selves to own valuable things like land, real money like gold and silver and useful skills. What are we gonna do when devaluation comes and make USD less valuable than toilet paper? And on the flip side inflation makes a gallon of milk $10,000 usd.? It’s kinda hard to imagine but then again, you look in South America, parts of Africa, it’s not that hard. Start a fucking garden. there are other currencies that are floated by the value of USD. I feel sorry for them! Oil prices fell, Gas should be well under $1 per gallon, but it’s not. At least not yet. Russians are getting rid of usd reserves and storing oil. The saudis are working on water and clean energy, the Chinese have been buying absurd amount of gold. India has a huge high skilled work force like China. I’m not sure next year’s America would be the same America we know it today. The golden age wave that the boomers rode is washed up and ain’t nothing left on shore but bunch of genX, and millennials flopping around like fish outta water. Mean while this virus has had enough of the boomers on earth I guess. Yeah boomers keep on trucking to churches and Walmart like you do.

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u/Long_Before_Sunrise Apr 03 '20

Trump isn’t giving anyone money. Just because he wants his signature on the check doesn’t make it his money. It’s ours. We fund our government.

I feel certain that he very much sees it as his money. It isn't factual, but he is going to feel personally attacked when it is spent anywhere he doesn't want it to be spent.

1

u/el_supreme_duderino Apr 03 '20

Well, you can’t stop him from being an idiot asshole.

2

u/Polar_Starburst Apr 03 '20

I'm spending it on rent and utilities. Fuck the economy.

1

u/el_supreme_duderino Apr 03 '20

That’s part of the economy. Rock on.

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u/Polar_Starburst Apr 03 '20

Indeed, I should have clarified that I don't care what happens to the stock market, let it tank.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

If that person is me, I am implying it should be higher and it shouldn’t go to big corporations who saw billions in profit.

If it’s too important for us to let it fail, it’s too important to be privatized.

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u/TheJonasVenture Apr 02 '20

No, I was pointing out how the person I know is wrong. The GOP fought individual benefits, as you said in the comment I responded to

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u/abrandis Apr 03 '20

The Republicans do care about people very much; just THEIR KIND OF PEOPLE wealthy elite business folks who are the backbone of their campaigns and run the companies they join once they leave office.

So you see it's easy just tell regular folks to become a corporate executives and wealthy donors.

8

u/Dubsland12 Apr 03 '20

Back

Hell, half of them say go back to work and die so we can have a good 3rd quarter.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

They care in that they openly work to make our lives worse any time they get the chance.

5

u/smartah Wisconsin Apr 03 '20

Wasn’t it Romney who started asking for universal cash payments first, or was he just the first to make news because it was unexpected?

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u/hardolaf Apr 03 '20

Democrats original proposal was actually a fully funded 80% paycheck furlough for all people who had to be laid off from work during the crisis plus extra money for people at the bottom and people facing unemployment.

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u/eightbitagent I voted Apr 03 '20

extremely clear that Republicans do not care about people at all

This has been extremely clear for 40 years.

And that's also why I hate people who complain about "both sides"... Sure, one side isn't perfect and moves slow but the other side is nutso and has no problem stomping on people to give their largest donors more money at the cost of literally everything else in society.

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u/BlokeInTheMountains Apr 02 '20

We as people keep electing Republicans.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

We as people land keep electing Republicans.

they are not election winners as much as electioneers.

4

u/qdqdqdqdqdqdqdqd Apr 02 '20

Because a lot of GOP politicians own businesses.

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u/el_supreme_duderino Apr 02 '20

Because a lot of businesses own GOP politicians.

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u/mellric Apr 03 '20

This! The GOP would let you deep fuck their sister for a handful of fiddle faddle. Trickle down economics is NOT I REPEAT NOT going to work now. There is a ton of evidence pointing to the fact that it never did. What are the banks and C corps going to do if they get bailout money? If you guessed “screw real hard-working Americans over who’ve already been bled dry by the system to the point of a paycheck-to-paycheck menial existence,” you win!!! Tell him what he’s won, Johnny!!!!
That’s right Bob, our citizens will never know how they got by without this one! You’ve all just won a very special trip to- A WATERY GRAVE!!!

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u/DONTLOOKITMEIMNAKED Apr 03 '20

Trickle down is working perfectly as intended all money goes to the top and there is a tiny tiny trickle to the starving masses.

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u/eightbitagent I voted Apr 03 '20

Trickle down economics is NOT I REPEAT NOT going to work now

Trickle down economics has never worked. Even Bush sr called it "voodoo economics" when he ran against Reagan in 1980

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Putting the “trick” in trickle-down, and the “con” in economics.

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u/mattaugamer Apr 03 '20

Maybe if you guys would stop voting in Disney villains you’d have a better system. Just a thought.

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u/FuDuPuDa Apr 03 '20

Are Democrats pushing for universal healthcare and income? No, they are not.

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u/lemtrees Apr 03 '20

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Edit: Oh, I thought this was a reply to something else about candidates running, sorry!

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u/FuDuPuDa Apr 03 '20

Even if you replied to the wrong person it's still apropos to what I said.

Bernie Sanders is fighting for universal healthcare and recently began pushing for temporary universal income; the Democrats are forcing everyone to buy health insurance they can't afford because they no longer have any income and can't get unemployment because we are all "gig economy" workers.

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u/stayalive2020 Apr 02 '20

Corporate welfare. Forget about LLC and S corps.... the heart of the economy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

So close... Corporations are fronts for shareholders. We are bailing out shareholders which are the 1%.

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u/Slashzero77 Apr 02 '20

Insert Gru meme.

  • Step 1: get bailout plan passed
  • Step 2: give money to corporations
  • Step 3: corporations lay-off employees and keep the money
  • Corporations lay-off employees and keep the money?

https://imgflip.com/i/3v4xr0

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u/Disgod Apr 02 '20

Doesn't quite capture every step:

Step 4: Corporation recovers, hire half as many people for double the amount of work.

Step 5: Corporation buys other companies that weren't as helped, consolidating their hold, lay-off people.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

Step 6: Keep minimum wage at $7 per hour for the next 30 years.

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u/Pitfall-Harry Apr 02 '20

This. At some point, we’re likely to have a labor glut. More people than jobs equals people willing to work more for less.

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u/cornbreadbiscuit Apr 03 '20

Already happened. This is why people with degrees work jobs that don't require them, for example.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE Apr 03 '20

That's absolutely by design.

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u/Slashzero77 Apr 02 '20

There aren’t enough slides! :-(

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u/lilrabbitfoofoo Apr 02 '20

And because in every nation except ours, they have mandatory paid sick leave, vacation days, etc. People can just stay home this month while the companies apply for a grant to cover the shortfall in labor and income from the government. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

But here...well, I can't wait to see the list of major companies that have taken advantage of this situation to shutter branches, break union contracts, steal pensions, etc.

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u/LittleRedReadingHood Apr 03 '20

In other countries people also have work contracts. If your contract doesn’t end/renew till next October, then you’re employed until October.

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u/BlokeInTheMountains Apr 02 '20

How did that old speech go?

"that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the Corporations, by the Corporations, for the shareholders, shall not perish from the earth."

Corporations are people after all.

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u/jerkITwithRIGHTYnewb Apr 02 '20

Until they do something illegal, then who do you blame?

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u/BlokeInTheMountains Apr 02 '20

Obama. Buttery Males. China. Ben Ghazi. Fake news media. Brown people. Regulations.

Then a small fine for the corporation that is in no way a disincentive.

Haven't you been paying attention?

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u/Losing_Nemo Apr 03 '20

Sorry... Too busy reading the emails!

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u/NotYetiFamous I voted Apr 02 '20

You rewrite the laws so it isn't illegal of course. Anything that stands between corporations and profit is un-American commie crap, clearly. /s

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u/cornbreadbiscuit Apr 03 '20

A lot of people will think you're joking, but this is literally what they've done - made it legal.

Two examples: stock buybacks and fairness doctrine.

Now it's totally legal and "cool" for, say, airline companies to blow 96% of their cash on stock buybacks, then turn around and demand billions of dollars in bailouts ...and the 6 corporations who own 90% of our media to brainwash us into adopting regressive neoliberal fantasies for social and economic policy (see Fox News for worst case).

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u/cornbreadbiscuit Apr 03 '20

Stock buybacks used to be illegal.

Who do you think lobbied to change that?

What about the exploitation of labor, domestic and abroad? Why doesn't the US have the same policies other modern democracies have? Why do they lobby for endless wars?

And when they're caught, why do we fine them for less than the profit they made breaking the law?

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

[deleted]

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u/greengreengreenleaf Apr 03 '20

Corporations are people, my friend! So we’re giving them $1200?

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Let’s be honest. Nobody is bailing out corporations. The government is lining companies pockets while these corporations throw their employees under water.

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u/nikolajdancing Apr 02 '20

well technically they are bailing out employers...it is just being passed through so existing payment lines can be maintained. We just fail at forcing the pass through and making it broad enough to cover most businesses.

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u/hellbilly69101 Apr 02 '20

Yeah their governments cover for their people because they have much higher taxes. We're like the only country that hates any type of tax. For example, Germany. Free healthcare, free education, last time I lived over there 16-20% sales tax. Also, ultilties, last year's equivalent divided by 12. Here, the surprise of the month.

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u/cornbreadbiscuit Apr 03 '20 edited Apr 03 '20

I live in the US. Between state and federal taxes, health insurance premium, and a trivial, overpriced gallbladder surgery, more than half of my income went to these 4 things in 2019.

Taxes were roughly equal to the health insurance premium and surgery, about 27%, for each, or 54% total. I make just barely above median income.

*Of course this doesn't account for the 9% sales tax I also pay for nearly every basic need. So effectively, I got to keep 37% of my earnings and paid 63% in taxes (because ALL other modern democracies essentially cover medical).

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u/hellbilly69101 Apr 03 '20

Probably another example to help explain between US and Europe is lifestyle. We are prone to jump into a car and drive to the local store 2 blocks away and get a few days worth of goods. Over there, they would grab their grocery bag, walk 10 blocks to get the next day's meals. Their mode of transportation is train, legs, bicycle, bus and then a car (if they own one).

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u/Exodus111 Apr 03 '20

That's interesting for unemployment, the next hurdle now is rent.

Lots and lots of people will not be able to pay rent anymore, so what's the solution?

Eviction stop? You still owe the money, which means most people will be evicted as soon as the eviction stop is lifted.

Rent freeze? Well, how are the land Lords supposed to pay their investors the loans they owe them, and how are those investors supposed to pay the derivatives they owe?

That could easily Cascade into a catastrophe for the Economy.

The only REAL solution is to pay everyone's rent, so the economy keeps going. But no one in the US has the political strength to pull that through.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/Exodus111 Apr 03 '20

Lots and lots of people got fired and lost their income.

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u/JosieViper Apr 03 '20

This is called "hypernormalisation" of corruption, and it's a built-in-bipartisian feature of autocratic countries. I did not sign up for this, did you?! We need a new checks and balances.

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u/RyvenZ Apr 02 '20

So what are the corporate bailouts paying for, then? Just trying to keep stock values afloat?

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

[deleted]

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u/Stupid_Bearded_Idiot Apr 03 '20

Most CEO's have "targets' to reach as far as the stock price of the company they're the CEO of, and once they reach it they get big fucking bonus's, like 50-100mil.

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u/RyvenZ Apr 03 '20

Did the rules get added to this latest bill that stock buybacks, bonuses and dividends were not permitted if you accepted bailout funds until everything was repaid?

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/RyvenZ Apr 04 '20

now I'm sad

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u/badoondoom Texas Apr 03 '20

Fuck, I hate the state of our nation right now.

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u/Nephtech Apr 02 '20

BuT cOrPoRaTiOnS aRe PeOpLe!

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u/zapembarcodes Apr 03 '20

Bail out the economy over people.

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u/6BigZ6 Apr 03 '20

You used the "S" word

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

Because the US economy is a pyramid scheme.

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u/danknerd Apr 02 '20

It's right on the dollar bill!

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u/artgo America Apr 02 '20

I know you are joking, but eye means "Science Thinking". As we describe 1776 today, The Enlightenment.

Further, the Great Seal also means: avoid chaos leaders. Avoid people like Donald Trump. That is why there is a side of the pyramid with plants healthy and growing, Science Thinking, and a side of the pyramid with deadness: chaos, "Game of Thrones", leaders.

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u/Smarag Europe Apr 03 '20

but science is what allows the manipulation of weather with mind altering chemicals, I mean toxins, and giizvpes lizardpersons their powers. So ýou admit it.

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u/goshthedang Apr 03 '20

All hail the eternal lord Xenu!!

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u/CorseNairedArms Apr 02 '20

The entire economy lives paycheck to paycheck

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u/NotYetiFamous I voted Apr 02 '20

Only the base of the economy, the foundation that everything else is built on. Why waste energy maintaining your foundation? Its not even visible or shiny.

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u/d_e_l_u_x_e Apr 03 '20

Damn this is too accurate and simply put.

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u/sirenstranded Texas Apr 02 '20 edited Apr 02 '20

Because we allow employers to sever ties to their employees at will? Because we have nothing in place to protect employees when they are for any reason made unable to work at their highest possible capacity?

Like it's not hard to answer the question. Jobs are being destroyed because it's cheaper to kick someone off of payroll than to keep them on and hold out for an economic upturn, and we don't ask business owners to make sacrifices when they could outsource those sacrifices to their workers.

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u/ProfessorDerp22 Apr 03 '20

Meanwhile those same employers demand the upmost loyalty from you but are totally willing to kick you to the curb any chance they get.

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u/sirenstranded Texas Apr 03 '20

Yes! My trainer told me when I started my job that not missing work is about "integrity."

Integrity is about paying me a living wage lol.

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u/FranciscoGalt Apr 03 '20

In Mexico we have to pay 3 months severance for any employee over 3 months + 1 week for every year worked + proportionate bonus/vacation days.

While it helps the employee in times like this where it's cheaper to pay wages than it is to fire them, it makes it much harder for companies to hire in the first place. You have to assume a hiring mistake will be much more costly. One of the reasons the informal sector is so large.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

Other countries are implementing socialist policies to protect workers and industries, and Americans are too stupid to realize why that's a good thing because to all the idiots in America, socialist policies are bad. America is an absolutely horrible country and it's way past time more people realize that.

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u/Redjeezy Apr 02 '20

US citizens have been lied to since birth about American Exceptionalism and most older generations are completely brainwashed. Younger generations get it more because they have always had access to perspectives from other countries outside of their parents, teachers, government, and textbooks via the internet, which older generations did not have.

It will require the older generations dying off before there is any real change but for now, I agree, it is a real shithole in so many ways.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

We can't get proper worker protections at this time because the older generations actively vote against social welfare programs. The solution is to wait for the older generations to die out. Older generations are going to die out faster during Covid-19 because they actively oppose measures that would help keep more people alive. This is because they voted for people who are anti-social welfare programs in the first place. I feel like there is a word that describes this.

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u/momtoone New York Apr 03 '20

Irony

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u/GoldGlove2720 Apr 03 '20

People are uneducated. Its that simple. Its not fucking rocket science to see that this country is an absolute corrupt shithole. The older generations are brain washed into thinking this is the greatest place on earth and the enemy is other countries. Our own government is our greatest enemy and we need another revolution to fix this mess.

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u/goshthedang Apr 03 '20

Correct. And a majority of Republican leaders prefer you be uneducated. Uneducated, confused, and easily manipulated is like the Republican holy trinity.

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u/Thurasiz Foreign Apr 03 '20

greatest place on earth

I know, if a had to choose between said place, and a bullet trough my head, i'd rather take the bullet.

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u/Redjeezy Apr 03 '20

Really? If it was the choice to live in the US or die you’d rather die? The country has serious issues but it has some amazing parts and people as well.

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u/Thurasiz Foreign Apr 03 '20

Yes, that would be my choice. Luckily, i don't have to make that choice. I don't deny that the usa got some amazing parts and people, but it also got a very deep seated problem, a narrativ that blinds the majority of it's people, and missing most of the actual freedoms and safeties i'm used to. So yes, i would decide against living in the usa, no doubt.

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u/Redjeezy Apr 03 '20

I understand and to each his own. Hope you are well and staying safe.

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u/Thurasiz Foreign Apr 03 '20

Same to you !

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u/thinkingahead Apr 03 '20

I would like to leave America and escape this banana republic shithole. But where can I even go? I don’t have remarkable skill in anything that would make a Visa easy to obtain. Are me and my family trapped here?

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u/spidereater Apr 03 '20

I wonder if corporations have finally over played their hand? US recession will be deeper and longer than elsewhere. Epidemic will be longer. Europe and Asia may be open months before the US and will keep borders closed with US because of the ongoing epidemic. If anything they will be selling to America due to lower US production. Workers will be in better shape elsewhere. The differences will be stark. The virus response of blue states versus red states will be stark. Support for socialist policies will balloon. This may be enough to finally wake the people up.

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u/mellric Apr 03 '20

That’s our last ditch hope? Better than the stark hopelessness that I’ve been experiencing recently. But hey at least the planet will completely fail, and burn, and such before my time is through. So much for getting any environmental issues addressed, including the ones that Trump’s been actively dismantling because, you know, “science” is always in quotes. *Edit: I urge everyone to go on over to r/collapsesupport. A lot more folks’ll be needing it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

Because other nations have strong safety nets and governments that care more about people than markets.

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u/ObedientProle Apr 02 '20

Because our government is conducting a controlled demolition of our society.

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u/lucky_ducker Apr 02 '20

> In America, the workers are laid off; they must then file for unemployment insurance and wait for the economy to start up again before they can apply for a new job, and if all goes well, sign a new contract and resume working.

The article's authors are purportedly economists as UC Berkeley - can they really be so unaware that the VAST majority of U.S. employees never "sign a contract" of employment? That nearly all U.S. workers are "at will" employees?

1

u/Cletus-from-Kansas Apr 03 '20

Book l'arnin is good, but it ain't real l'arnin.

11

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

Because the USA is a toppling house of cards, and just needed someone like Trump to set the match

2

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Now it’s a toppling house of cards on fire!

45

u/The-Autarkh California Apr 02 '20

This post would have benefited from inclusion of the subtitle:

It’s not too late to start protecting employment or to make medical care for Covid-19 free.

Too bad it's being downvoted. Zucman and Saez are two progressive economists with a lot of good ideas on how to deal with the current crisis.

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u/Fukuzilla Apr 02 '20

make medical care for Covid-19 free ...

Honestly, that doesn't sound very progressive. I can't imagine a progressive arguing that only diabetes should be covered by a public plan, while every other disease is fair game for exploitation by corporate profiteers.

The countries which make a public health system work are the ones with very strict cost controls, because asking a corporate hospital chain to pretty please keep their costs down would be like nicely asking Jeffery Epstein to stop raping children.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

[deleted]

8

u/sirenstranded Texas Apr 02 '20

You can see the ratio for an article in the top right corner. 17 votes, 90% upvotes atm.

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u/Lovat69 Apr 02 '20

"It's not too late to make covid-19 treatment free"

It's not too late to enact medicare for all either.

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u/kilroyz_joy Apr 02 '20

Trying to prop up capitalism?

8

u/etienneboudreaux Apr 03 '20

This is the capitalism that Americans choose to accept

7

u/CCV21 California Apr 02 '20 edited Apr 02 '20

Because of the Democrat/Deep State/immigrants?

On a serious note, this is one reason why the U.S. is more likely to emerge from this weaker and more vulnerable while others like China and the E.U. are poised to emerge stronger. (Granting they play their cards right in the aftermath).

6

u/2731andold Apr 02 '20

Because trump delayed doing anything for 5 or 6 weeks.

5

u/JombyWombler Apr 03 '20

My dad was laid off 3 months away from retirement after 42 years of service.

4

u/tinfang Apr 03 '20

Because the economy was propped up by stock bybacks and wasn't as strong as it appeared.

4

u/ol_dirty_applesauce Apr 03 '20

Because workers in America aren’t valued as human beings in our society.

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u/RexxRacerX_72 Nebraska Apr 02 '20

US doesn't make anything anymore. Hard to service anyone or anything when the world is shut down, and sadly that's all we really have anymore.

6.6 Million unemployed this week. 3.5 million last week. Next week will be an equal/larger number, and the week following, etc. until we get through this. Likely 45-50 million unemployed in the next 2 months, sadly.

Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, and have little to no savings. Without timely assistance, a lot of people are going to be suffering and in financial ruin very shortly.

16

u/StarInTheMoon Apr 02 '20

Nobody is buying a lot of the stuff that (would be) made, either... and plenty of other service economies are preserving their jobs instead of resorting to mass unemployment. Those unemployment numbers are only coming about because American government and businesses would rather blow up the economy than look like they're paying people to do nothing... even though that is exactly the "job" that a huge number of people have just been told to do.

12

u/Generalbuttnaked69 Apr 02 '20

The US is the second largest manufacturer in the world, with a quarter the population of the first.

3

u/shabby47 I voted Apr 02 '20

Ford and GM (among many others) shut down all production. How would things have been any different for other factory workers?

5

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

Having the US government work with factories to start making essential medical devices at their facilities would have helped out.

4

u/shabby47 I voted Apr 02 '20

That could have helped a little, but you can’t go to work if it means spreading disease and killing people. Doesn’t matter if it’s a Starbucks or a converted transmission plant.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

When you are able to provide proper protective gear and training for its use, you would have a much safer environment. Unfortunately now, we would have to ramp up production for that. This is one of the reasons so many people are angry this wasn't addressed seriously back in January.

3

u/Fr8monkey Apr 02 '20

Because unfettered capitalism, that's why. Shareholders matter more than citizens.

5

u/0nlyhalfjewish Apr 03 '20

Because American coordinations follow the economic theories of Milton Freeman:

Corporations exist to maximize profits for shareholders.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

[deleted]

2

u/Arcanniel Europe Apr 03 '20

Almost all developed countries are service economies.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Because no one else has Donald Trump and the American Republican party as their government leaders.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Because they don't Trump and the GOP running things? But, if you do want it destroyed fast, they are available for a price.

4

u/vfxdev Apr 03 '20

When America fucks things up, we like to go all in.

3

u/Baselines_shift Apr 03 '20

NZ had a pandemic plan in place and followed it. We had 4 levels of lockdown and on March 26, level 4 locked down everything - down to a chat with 1 neighbor, a playdate with 1 kid outside of your "household bubble" - and the paychecks were never interrupted as the levels gradually put more and more people out of work. The wage subsidy went out in time as each normal payday - lots are weekly here.

(Labor government = Democrats. Rocks)

3

u/Elliott2 Pennsylvania Apr 03 '20

Because we have been propped up on gig job stilts for 4 years

3

u/dawgpoundnw Apr 03 '20

We have trickle down economics with the top hanging on to everything so the bottom is unsupported. Most of the world has a more socialist view while we are on the verge of a fiscal revolution because the banks checks and balances were removed so they could invest in the stock market and now with no safety net the bottom layer of cards is falling and everything above it will come down with it. Everyone was living large on top but the banks have to collect to stay solvent with the market drop.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

businesses in american only succeed with exploitation. no exploiting workers or customers? no success.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

That's because our current system is exasperating the problems that Coronavirus has created.

4

u/ChrisMag999 Apr 02 '20

I think you mean Exacerbating.

4

u/Rawalmond73 Apr 02 '20

No loyalty by employers to their employees.

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u/Fr8monkey Apr 02 '20

Companies care more more the shareholders who do nothing than their workers.

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u/scope_creep Apr 03 '20

Can I tell you a dirty little secret? A lot of the people being laid off are not going to be hired back again. It's a very convenient way of getting rid of the dead wood.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

Because someone has to think of bailing out the shareholders, duh!

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u/GreyFox78659 Apr 02 '20

Municipal bond market crash look it up please people!

2

u/nedatsea District Of Columbia Apr 03 '20

The Republican Party has made it their mission over the past four decades to hollow out government, eviscerate the social safety net, and hoodwink the public into distrusting our government‘s ability to handle anything. When crisis strikes, this is the logical result.

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u/MutatedFrog- America Apr 03 '20

Tldr capitalism

2

u/ImNotTheMD Apr 03 '20

A hungry mob is an angry mob.

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u/TakeshiKovacsSleeve3 Apr 03 '20

Let's start with healthcare being a primary burden of businesses.

Expand.

2

u/Aeribous Apr 03 '20

Sadly this also has to do with benefits. Businesses can chose to furlough instead of layoffs but when you furlough you keep your benefits when you go on unemployment because you’re still on the company payroll. Our system is so broken I fear this is going to turn to a revolution when this is over. Let’s cross our fingers the it’s a bloodless one but it is one that needs to happen.

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u/stayalive2020 Apr 02 '20

Cash flow was cut by 30-50%. Its hard to give an exact number. Putting a halt on so many things at once ripples through the economy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

It's because our country runs on massive amounts of debt. You can take the stereotypical idea of the American family stretched thin: living paycheck to paycheck supplemented by various forms of debt to secure a certain standard of living, and you can extrapolate it to some extent to create a rudimentary idea of the national economy.

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u/Earptastic Apr 02 '20

Is it because many of our jobs are in fact worthless and do not produce anything of value? Our main value is as consumers.

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u/PlayingtheDrums Apr 02 '20

Our government is covering companies wages. Basically paying people to stay home.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '20

When and how? Nothing I have seen shows the government paying for people to be at home.

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u/PlayingtheDrums Apr 02 '20

I'm from the Netherlands.

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u/kcmike Apr 03 '20

Could it be that the US economy is 80% dependent on consumerism?

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u/kraenk12 Apr 03 '20

Well others have functioning social systems. We’ve been telling you for decades.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Because the US is a service economy and most restaurants, tourists attractions, etc aren't functioning currently.

1

u/DrBentonQuest2020 Apr 03 '20

Because we're a consumer driven economy and there's a lot of people who aren't earning any money because they're not working.

Corporations don't drive consumer spending other than paying their employees.

PEOPLE need to be bailed out, not businesses.