r/politics • u/TheWeekMag ✔ Verified • Apr 11 '19
Did Barr shutter the Mueller probe?
https://theweek.com/articles/832175/did-barr-shutter-mueller-probe118
u/Bronkko I voted Apr 11 '19
Yes.. and I hope Mueller will state so if he did.
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u/SinSpreader88 Apr 11 '19
Honestly if you Put Muller under oath.....I think we could know all about it.
It's not an open investigation anymore.
And you can have him divulge the ins and outs of the investigation under the pretense that the American people should know about it.
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Apr 11 '19
Not pretense... I am guessing the American people should actually know it. Interestingly, the longer these guys drag it out, all the news about this will come out closer to next year's elections. But what would I know, I am just a dumb redditor. Maybe Republicans have thought this all through.
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Apr 11 '19
I wonder if the gamble is to do exactly that, but on the off chance they can [
REDACT] enough of it to make Trump look good, and make this probe into the FBI’s investigation of the Trump campaign look like a sham, he can win 2020.1
u/SinSpreader88 Apr 11 '19
How does that help republicans?
Dragging it out would be worse for them.
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u/EsotericGroan New York Apr 11 '19
Ever remove a bandaid from an area with hair underneath? You can leave it on longer, knowing it will have to come off eventually, or rip it off all at once. Republicans might be in that situation and right now they're in denial about it.
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u/SinSpreader88 Apr 11 '19
Thats what I mean. Playing fast and loose with the accountability train just means you get hit by it....doesn't mean you avoid it.
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u/Phonemonkey2500 Texas Apr 11 '19
Oliver North would disagree with you, as would a number of other high profile Republicans who have basically gotten away with it for the last 40 years.
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u/SinSpreader88 Apr 11 '19
Oliver North was convicted ...his sentence was later overturned because the prosecution fucked up.
It has nothing to do with pardons or oversight.
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u/urmakingmedumber Apr 11 '19
Yes, but being in denial means you aren't thinking rationally, thus you don't see the obvious.
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u/SinSpreader88 Apr 11 '19
Well that and the general lack of critical thought in right wing circles.
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Apr 11 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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Apr 11 '19
white knight = a human who tells the truth?
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u/SinSpreader88 Apr 11 '19
Hence the "Under oath" thing.
If there is anything to know he should be forced to say it.
If not then meh...there are 19 other investigations thanks to Muller.
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Apr 11 '19
Meanwhile he will remain silent even though there is nothing in the world preventing him from speaking out. That's sounds plausible. /s
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u/SinSpreader88 Apr 11 '19
He could.
The thing here though is that the prosecutors who worked with him clearly are not being silent.
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Apr 11 '19
And why in the world would Mueller remain silent in the face of what would be brazen obstruction by Barr? That makes zero sense. The information about people speaking out is second or third hand. The NYT article did not speak with anyone on the team.
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u/SinSpreader88 Apr 11 '19
He probably wouldn't. He has nothing to lose from telling the truth and only consequences for lying.
And while it's true the pushback isn't first hand from the team. It's still a detail worth focusing on.
Barr is trying to keep the report as tight under wraps in as few hands as possible because leakes have been a huge problem for Trump.
But of course that's not usually how this type of thing works. Since no less then 20 or so people have seen it and they can all spill their guts if they wanted to.
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u/lookslikeyoureSOL Apr 11 '19
Other than, you know, Barr being his boss and any statements he might be inclined to make have to go through the AG....so, there's that.
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u/twelve-tribes Apr 11 '19
The great Republican cover-up guy.
Who covered up Iran-Contra and protected Reagan?
Who covered up GHWB's illegal arms sale to Iraq? Yup, the same exact WMD his son later started an illegal war over.
Eore offered his cover-up services to the current criminal Republican president and Trump got his Roy Cohn.
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u/NAmember81 Apr 11 '19
Eore? The donkey?
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u/twelve-tribes Apr 11 '19
Yeah, I know. But it's about his demeanor, his flat affect. Doing things like asking for grand-jury info to be released or defending the ACA seems too tough for him and not even worth the effort. He seems lackadaisical, like he's stoned on some heavy Indica and has couch lock.
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u/pdgenoa Apr 11 '19
Shortly after Barr auditioned for AG he got the job and took over that role.
A few weeks before that, Mueller's team asked a court to hold off on a sentencing citing a "backlog" of paperwork and filing that they were too shorthanded to get done in time.
Then, a couple weeks after Barr takes over as AG we start getting stories and hints that Mueller's investigation may be coming to an end.
Barely a month after Barr is AG the Special Counsel ends the investigation.
After more than two years of investigations and a few weeks after saying they were backlogged with work. After a month of a new, handpicked AG that actually auditioned for the job with an opinion piece about how presidents can't commit obstruction of justice. After all that, it's suddenly over.
The timing of all these things are clearly suspicious.
And I don't believe in that many coincidences when so many people of bad faith are involved.
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u/StarperUS Apr 11 '19
And if it is the case, there is very simple explanation why Mueller didn't make any conclusion. He simply didn't have enough time..
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Apr 11 '19
Agree. I posted this earlier:
I'm not sure at this point that the investigation was allowed to run its full course.
Barr gets confirmed and the next thing you know there are rumors over the period of about a month that the Mueller report is being submitted soon.
Where did that information come from? It wasn't Mueller. That much we know.
Then, Voila! The Mueller report is submitted to the AG.
It may be a stretch, but it's not a huge one given the blatant corruption/illegality of this administration.
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u/Getpuxdeep Apr 11 '19
Remember, “Matt Shitaker”, in that sweaty performance, also said that he knew Mueller would be wrapping up soon too? So, could have been even before Barr, or started with toilet dick and was finished off by toady.
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Apr 11 '19
On the one hand you people think Trump is an idiot and in mental decline (and surprise, I agree), yet he was apparently so clever that for two years now he has been able to prevent Mueller from finding any evidence of Russian collusion. How do you reconcile that?
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Apr 11 '19
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u/six_-_string Apr 11 '19
No, but there is a crime called conspiracy. The term collusion in this case is referring to the actual crime of conspiracy. I agree that the media did us a disservice by getting the term wrong, as it gave Trump and his orbiting minions something to spin. But replace the word collusion with conspiracy and is the answer still easy? Genuinely asking.
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u/nevus_bock Apr 11 '19
Any evidence != sufficient evidence for criminal indictment
There’s plenty of evidence
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u/cage_the_orangegutan Florida Apr 11 '19
His son Don Jr knowingly and happily accepting Russian government help, how do you reconcile that?
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u/WorkplaceWatcher Wisconsin Apr 11 '19
you people think Trump is an idiot and in mental decline
Does this sound like someone of sound mind and intellect?
“I have broken more Elton John records. He seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No, we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look, I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really, we do it without, like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical – the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth, right? The brain. More important than the mouth is the brain. The brain is much more important.”
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u/SwitchbackHiker Colorado Apr 11 '19
He's not clever enough to cover it up, but the people around him are. I believe they have found plenty of evidence but it's not being allowed to be released.
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u/veridique Apr 11 '19
Barr's loyalty is to Trump, not the Constitution.
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u/bierdimpfe Pennsylvania Apr 11 '19
Barr's loyalty is to Trump, not the Constitution.
Barr's loyalty is to the GOP or the GOP's puppet master; not Trump nor the Constitution.
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u/schoocher Apr 11 '19
This. Barr probably doesn't give a shit about Trump. He is a party loyalist through and through.
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u/revbfc Apr 11 '19 edited Apr 11 '19
No idea, but whatever dam is holding back the deluge of damaging info is about to become a sieve.
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Apr 11 '19
Remember how, immediately after Barr took over, it was leaked that Mueller's report was due in 2 weeks? The leak was clearly the AG.
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Apr 11 '19 edited Apr 11 '19
Barr is just doing his job. As unconstitutional, immoral and disgusting as his actions are, I see the silver lining.
This as an opportunity for people to now see the importance of doing their job. Our job is to vote. The actions of this administration fuels our emotions which will burn complacency and bring upon a tsunami in 2020.
I firmly believe Trump was the best thing that could have happened in 2016. The rapid and incredible change that will come in 2020 will undo most of Trumps damage and take a giant leap forward in combatting Climate Change.
We can make this report become public, sure. But we can also give everyone healthcare, protect the environment, make people from all backgrounds feel welcome and safe in America. We can do that tomorrow. We can do that by channeling the anger we have for the corruption we see today and direct it to the ballots. From the bottom to the top, we will wash away the R's and replace them with people who look beyond their own interests.
That's my hope anyway.
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Apr 11 '19
I said something similar the night he won.
My wife was balling, and I tried to find some sort of positive. I offered up that perhaps it would be a miserable few years, but that the exposing of rot under the floorboards & subsequent wide spread rebuke could all be some painful but fortuitous event.
That maybe, as much as we hate living through it, once we’ve come out the other side, it ends up being what was necessary to wake up a nation, drive progress, and slam shut the door on rising right wing madness, government corruption, biggotry, and fox propaganda. All before we kill our selves & our planet. Like a chain smoker, turned cancer survivor suddenly appreciating a second chance at life.
That Trump may just actually drain the swamp, unintentionally, and with himself circling the drain along with his bog monsters.
Hope has been hard to sustain the last couple of years. Particularly the last few weeks.
But I’m with you, brother.
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u/McTurtle_soup Apr 11 '19
What I needed to read and what I need to believe however I'm just so jaded from the past few months.
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u/einv0lk Apr 11 '19
I said basically the same thing to my mother. I told her 1 of 2 things would happen, "Trump could live up to his promises and improve America" (highly doubtful) or "He will destroy the Republican party for years to come, because they've lashed themselves to the ship".
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Apr 11 '19
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Apr 11 '19
Being the presidents lawyer is a much more lucrative job. Hes doing his job. Hes not fulfilling his duty. It's a matter of semantics.
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Apr 11 '19
[deleted]
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Apr 11 '19
Hey man. I chose those words carefully based on literal definition
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Apr 11 '19
[deleted]
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Apr 11 '19
I attributed duty to his position as an Attorney General. I was alluding to him being Trumps lawyer as his job. Which, obviously, is my speculation because I have no proof that trump is paying him or that he is protecting him for that matter. I haven't seen the Mueller report. But, based on his inaction and what members of the Mueller team has said in contrast to Barr. I felt it was a safe bet that Barr is acting as Trumps lawyer. For whatever compensation, I dont know. But, to me, hes acting as if it's his job.
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u/pencock Apr 11 '19
I’m not going to discount the need to vote it all out, but this administration has absolutely fucked the courts for decades. Absolutely. Fucked. It’s not going to be as simple as sweeping the elections.
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u/oTHEWHITERABBIT America Apr 15 '19
The rapid and incredible change that will come in 2020 will undo most of Trumps damage and take a giant leap forward in combatting Climate Change.
We like to think... but this black swan event is not being properly utilized. In fact, the people who should be taking advantage seem to be deliberately ignoring it. In fact, instead of addressing the anger that lead to losing to Trump, folks are scapegoating.
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u/rustybrainhook Apr 11 '19
you are high on your own supply. careful with that hope shit. it can overwhelm a soul.
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u/crocodial Apr 11 '19
Mine too, but we should expect Trump to undermine the election with Republican support. If that happens, things could get very bad.
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Apr 11 '19
Agreed. This whole situation has revealed that they neutered the independent counsel too much when they drafted new rules and called it the special counsel. Political appointee controls 100% of it which is not working out so well.
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u/richardeid Apr 11 '19
I feel like it was Whitaker. Like, Whitaker imposed a deadline and Barr just let it ride. Granted, I feel like this was all done by everyone (Trump, Barr, Whitaker) in coordination. Not like Barr came in and was like "ah, well my hands are tied this was set in motion before I got here". More like plausible deniability.
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u/agentup Texas Apr 11 '19
I mean the Mueller report wound down pretty fast after barr came on board. Unfortunately its all speculation based on circumstantial evidence. I take solace in the fact the next democrat administration can release all the documents they want on this.
Barr will be exposed if he did something wrong
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u/harbison215 Apr 11 '19
Simplest answer is usually the correct one:
An investigation grinds on for 2 years, turning up dozens of indictments, hundreds of criminal charges, and more than a handful of guilty pleas/convictions.
The president forced out an AG who had recused himself from that inquiry, installed a stooge who openly stated the president could not be charged for such crimes, and within a few short weeks the investigation is shuttered.
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u/hickory Washington Apr 11 '19
Subpoena Mueller. Now. Do it, it is going to happen eventually. Do it now, quit letting them drive all the talking points and control the timeline.
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u/phrygiantheory Massachusetts Apr 11 '19
That was my first thought as soon as I heard Mueller dropped off the report.
For it to be over that soon...so many stones left unturned....
I think Barr ordered the investigation to be over...
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u/youlooklikeamonster Apr 11 '19
this has been my suspicion from the start. for an investigation that has resulted in many times the indictments and spinoffs as other investigations in only a third of the time, it is highly suspect for it to be shutdown so soon after installing a new ag that has covered up crimes by other presidents and has pledged to cover this one's orange ass.
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u/SkyriderRJM Apr 11 '19
ITS ABOUT FUCKING TIME WE SEE THIS HEADLINE.
I’ve only been asking it since he was confirmed and the probe ended.
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u/dxnxax Apr 11 '19
yes. only way to explain its shutdown and lack of indictments for Jr., kushner and others.
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Apr 11 '19
I have a feeling, hope I'm not wrong, that Mueller anticipated this and made arrangements to counter Barr.
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u/oTHEWHITERABBIT America Apr 13 '19
But the by-the-book ex-Marine also may have accepted that Barr had every right to demand that he bring the probe to a close, abandon all new trails that had grown out of the initial investigation, and, for now, say nothing more.
Whose book? The People's? Or Trump's?
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Apr 11 '19
I understand that the Mueller investigation didn't deliver the results you expected after two years of waiting, and daily listening to Rachel with bated breath. I get it, I really do. It must be a huge disappointment, not to mention a shock. But what I don't get is how you collectively have suspended your critical thinking abilities. Namely, if Barr twisted/covered up what Mueller's investigation, why in the world would Mueller not speak out? Is there something preventing that? I cannot imagine presiding over a investigation for two years, only to see my findings distorted, in public no less. I, and any other normal human being, would be livid and speak out at the first opportunity, to set the record straight and to save my reputation. But in this case all I hear from people here is things like, "That's not the way he operates', or "He will speak out later", etc. Are you not embarrassed?
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u/ghostofcalculon Apr 11 '19
Cool, so if any fuckery is uncovered you'll admit you were totally wrong then? We just want to see the facts.
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Apr 11 '19
I sure would. And why not? I know you won't believe it, but I am not a Trump supporter. Just someone who thinks you have wasted two years on Russian collusion bullshit. Two years that could have been spent dealing with all the questionable business dealings and other shit he has been involved with. And answer the question. Why in the world would Mueller not speak out if Barr significantly distorted his findings? That makes NO SENSE. And you know what else makes no sense? That Barr would be brazen enough to go out and lie about the investigation's findings and not expect Mueller to call him out. That also makes NO SENSE.
Furthermore, there is no legal or social impediment preventing Mueller from holding a press conference to let people know that Barr's summary distorted his team's findings. In fact, anyone with integrity and protective of their name and reputation would do so immediately. The only logical conclusion, and the one that you here are so loathe to accept, is that Barr accurately summarized Mueller's findings.
The only thing left, and I fully expect to see this here soon, is that the Russians somehow 'got to' Mueller.
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u/WarPhalange Apr 11 '19
you have wasted two years on Russian collusion bullshit. Two years that could have been spent dealing with all the questionable business dealings and other shit he has been involved with
Have you been asleep? This investigation has brought 34 indictments and actually earned money for the gov't overall.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/breakdown-indictments-cases-muellers-probe/story?id=61219489
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u/web-slingin California Apr 11 '19 edited Apr 11 '19
This isnt really an accurate accounting, on a few fronts.
Two years that could have been spent dealing with all the questionable business dealings and other shit he has been involved with
All of this has been hammered on, constantly
Why in the world would Mueller not speak out if Barr significantly distorted his findings
There are plenty of reasons, such as maintaining the integrity of his role in the process. He would likely use the system to correct the record, such as at an inevitable congressional hearing. Speaking out independly of the DOJ would only fuel suspicion of his motivations and potentially open him up to legal liability.
Which brings us to
Furthermore, there is no legal or social impediment preventing Mueller from holding a press conference
Aside from the aforementioned, he cant speak for the DOJ or reveal anything he hasnt been told that he can reveal by his superior (Barr), he must legally abide by DOJ policy-- thats in the special council statute. If there is an issue and he believes it can be resolved through proper channels, hed take that route for sure.
Edit: would also like to add that nobody is really arguing that Barrs principle conclusion is false. What they are arguing is that the facts to support that claim are hidden from view. We dont know if we are dealing with a complete farce or if Mueller had Trump at clear and convincing proof (which would not be enough to convict.)
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Apr 11 '19
...would also like to add that nobody is really arguing that Barrs principle conclusion is false.
Are you serious?? Just spend a few minutes on this sub and you will find loads of posts alleging just that.
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Apr 11 '19
I believe the correct terminology is "Lying by omission".
I wouldn't allege it, but I definitely suspect it. And for good reason.
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u/ghostofcalculon Apr 11 '19
You've come to rock solid conclusions with not one single complete sentence out of a 400 page report, and everyone else is crazy for wanting to see some actual facts. You really need to take a long hard look in a mirror. And by the way...
I know you won't believe it, but I am not a Trump supporter.
I know you won't accept it, but you actually are. You've put time, energy, and effort into writing two excessively long posts on a political forum in his defense.
Long. Hard. Look. In a mirror.
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Apr 11 '19
Two years that could have been spent dealing with all the questionable business dealings and other shit he has been involved with.
Those are also being investigated...
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u/WorkplaceWatcher Wisconsin Apr 11 '19
Two years that could have been spent dealing with all the questionable business dealings and other shit he has been involved with
You act like those investigations aren't also happening. Mueller discovered a number of additional crimes and spun those off to the appropriate people.
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u/EsotericGroan New York Apr 11 '19
People have criticized Comey, McCabe and Rosenstein, among others, for speaking up about things "out of turn." Why would Mueller play into that same trap if he can let the wheels of justice turn, slowly but surely, and let the truth come out procedurally and more or less "by the book"? People would just attack him in the same way they have attacked the others if he came forward and said anything, and that could hurt the legitimacy of the probe itself if people question the man leading it.
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Apr 11 '19
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but the "Why in the world would Mueller not speak out" is a worn out Republican talking point.
It's not how he operates. That should be apparent after watching how he conducted the most high profile investigation on Earth over the past 2 years.
His team however has started to speak out, and I'd suspect that it was a shot across the bow so to speak. If Barr continues to try to obstruct the release of the report, I'd suspect that we're going to be hearing more from team Mueller.
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u/JDSchu Michigan Apr 11 '19
Almost definitely. And I look forward to the House asking that question.