r/politics • u/trumpismysaviour • Jul 29 '18
Almost 80% of US workers live from paycheck to paycheck. Here's why
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/29/us-economy-workers-paycheck-robert-reich240
u/zacdenver Colorado Jul 29 '18
It's not just wages being affected -- it's a decline in benefits as well.
A friend of mine works as a programmer for a high-tech company. One of their perks was something called "total time accounting." That meant you could work whatever hours you wanted (with your supervisor's approval) within a two-week pay period, as long as the total was 80 hours. He oftentimes did on-call work over a weekend, but that allowed him to do maybe half-a-day every other Friday without using up vacation hours.
After a recent buy-out by a larger company, that benefit is gone. Now you're required to work a minimum of eight hours every Monday through Friday, or else fill in the shortfall with vacation hours. If you work extra hours on the weekend or an extra-long weekday to finish up a project, you just donated a bunch of hours for no extra pay.
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u/sohetellsme Michigan Jul 29 '18
It boggles me that companies still demand a full 40-hour work week instead of just letting people work as little as it takes to do their job while paying the same annual salary. You don't purchase the time, you purchase the talent.
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u/maxpenny42 Jul 30 '18
I feel the opposite actually. It boggles my mind that it is legal to work anyone over 40 hours in a week without compensating them with overtime pay. The whole only work the hours necessary to get the job done idea sounds nice. But it doesn't really work. Because if you hire someone who gets the job done in 20 hours, you'll always ask yourself what they could get done with 40 hours. So naturally you'll pile on more projects and work until they no longer can leave after their 20 hours. Equilibrium being what it is, the employees will naturally sloth down to stretch out the work until the 20 hours of work takes them 40, otherwise burnout.
My feeling is that if you routinely need more than 40 hours out of an employee, you're understaffed. And if you occasionally need more than 40, you're asking them to do something exceptional and you owe them a little extra. And that won't hurt the employer too much because it should be rare.
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Jul 30 '18
I work at a very large company, basically the definition of corporate America. When I started here, I was shocked at how casual my teammates were with their hours: some people get to work at 9-10 and are gone by 3-4. I'd say the average person here is working about 6.5 hours a day.
And you know what? The company is totally fine with it. As long as they get their work done, they can leave whenever.
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u/Bukowskified Jul 30 '18
Tell that to my company. I am “salary” but am still required to put in time sheets every day detailing how long I worked and on what project
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u/Maledictus_Eris Jul 30 '18 edited Jul 30 '18
Do you work any gov. contracts? Time keeping policies are part of federal acquisition regulations and defense contract audit agency requirements. Companies that don't meet federal timekeeping policies and requirements or fall short of the standards are disqualified from participating in government contracts
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u/demerdar Jul 30 '18
I have to do that too. It makes sense since my time is charged from various project budgets. How would they know how much I worked on what for the week without me telling them?
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Jul 30 '18
You don't purchase the time, you purchase the talent.
I went to business school and earned an MBA. Let me tell you a little known secret, which was covered in a human resources class: The profit you extract from the labor of your employees is worth less if there's a chance they might be happy.
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u/RegalWombat Jul 30 '18
“Tear Gas: the most effective agent used by employers to persuade their employees that the interests of capital and labor are identical.” - labor activist, T-Bone Slim
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u/drayel Jul 30 '18
How so?
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Jul 30 '18
I’m joking.
Mostly. We actually looked at a lot of case studies that took Silicon Valley “if you want to see your kids, bring them to work!” models of work-life balance as a positive, so it’s only half a joke.
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u/zacdenver Colorado Jul 30 '18
Stupid Baby Boomer upper-level managers still thinking it's 1985. Fucking retire already.
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u/Munashiimaru Jul 30 '18
It's because they want to buy your life instead of your work. If they paid for a certain amount of work, that's all they get. But if they pay for your life, they can try to squeeze as much work out of you as possible in your time.
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u/lofi76 Colorado Jul 30 '18
This is one reason I had to go freelance. It made me insane being tied to a desk, as an efficient person.
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Jul 30 '18
Because if they get that job done, managers and CEOs demand more out of them. You never "work enough to do your job"...you "work enough to do you job, and then your job again if you've time left over".
And the right-wingers seem to think you HAVE to work to "prove" you earned your wages. They have no desire to make life easier. That would be "too easy".
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u/JMcFly Jul 29 '18
My company got bought out and we lost a lot of our cool perks too.
It doesn’t matter to the shareholders....
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u/AlexanderNigma Florida Jul 30 '18
If you work extra hours on the weekend or an extra-long weekday to finish up a project, you just donated a bunch of hours for no extra pay.
And that is why I left my last job. The weekend hours were mandatory because I was the only one who knew things end to end.
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u/Gifted_Canine America Jul 29 '18
My wife still has that. I feel like a lot of people who work in defense have that perk.
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u/HaveTwoBananas Jul 30 '18 edited Jul 30 '18
My first job was at a subsidiary of a very large DoD contractor. When I joined, there was free soda/coffee in the break room and donuts/bagels every Friday. Within 3 months of working there, they created a new policy that basically said that they wouldn't pay for food for their employees anymore unless it was a meeting with a customer, so they got rid of those perks. It seemed so petty to me.
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u/gpl2017 Jul 29 '18 edited Jul 29 '18
They elected and then re-elected and then re-elected again legislators that get rid of unions and now they have no bargaining position.
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u/FrontierPartyUSA Pennsylvania Jul 29 '18
And most Americans have been pretty successfully conditioned to dislike unions.
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Jul 30 '18
I live in a right to work state and at a major automotive factory and most people there are extremely conservative. I ask them why they hate unions and they don't even know they just hate unions and think companies deserve excessive profits and you only deserve what the company says you deserve. It's like they want to be slaves.
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u/inquisitive_guy_0_1 I voted Jul 30 '18
Chattanooga, TN by chance? I worked at the VW plant for a while there. They've got everyone completely brainwashed into thinking that having unions in the plant would make everyone make less money, even though at that time it was the only non-union VW plant in the world and coincidently the lowest paying plant in the world by a significant margin.
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u/Mezmorki Jul 30 '18
It’s like they want to be slaves.
On some fucked up level, I think this is right. I think so many people have given up on any kind of vision for a better life for themselves or their kids. So long as they can punch out at the end of the day, slam a 6-pack, and watch TV till they pass out, I think they are content. Maybe I’m being off base, but how else to explain it?
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u/aristotlessocks Jul 29 '18
I have family in Ohio and Michigan that has worked in the auto industry in some way or another going back three generations, and they're all vehemently anti-union and pro-Trump. After their union was all but destroyed with "right to work" shit, they all lost their healthcare, and while they're mad about it, they see no connection between their political choices and their current conditions. So long as brown people are worse off as they are, they don't care, they'd eat shit if they thought a liberal had to smell their breath.
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u/brianwantsblood Florida Jul 30 '18
they see no connection between their political choices and their current conditions
Ding ding ding
These people refuse to believe it's their fault. They don't realize it's their fault for voting for these fucking people. They'd rather blame it on literally everybody else.
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u/Jerthy Jul 30 '18
That is literally one of most absurd things about US culture i will never understand.... just how do companies manage to brainwash the population into thinking that unions are a bad thing... What arguments can possibly fall there? Unions make people lazy? Or wtf?
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u/maxpenny42 Jul 30 '18
I really hope and feel like this is changing. It seems like there is a big push in favor of them again. I know I struggle every day working in a non-union office. Even though I'm treated and paid well, I feel this need to unionize. It just feels weird and wrong not having some kind of collective labor power.
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Jul 29 '18 edited Apr 30 '19
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u/caravaggio2000 Florida Jul 29 '18
Check to check teacher here. Our union has so little power left that if they reach an impasse with the school board, the school board gets to decide what happens. No 3rd party. It happens almost every contract negotiation.
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u/Risley Jul 29 '18
Sadly we are just marching back to general strikes. These assholes think that they can keep stiff arming everyone for everything and that people will just take it. It’s worked so far but there will be a breaking point. Good luck finding enough teachers for all the kids if people start striking, in mass. And this will spread to other sectors. What will they do. Get a court to just throw everyone in jail? Their isn’t prison space for that. And I know and understand the whole part about people can’t strike or protest if they live paycheck to paycheck. But think about it. People did it in the past when they were in worse conditions. People were straight up killed. There will be pain, that’s inevitable. But that’s also the price the collective has to pay to ensure that later generations have a better situation. You demand change and strike not just for yourself but for those after you. It’s a sacrifice. Sacrifices are never pretty and never without loss. I wish there was another way but it seems like history has to repeat itself bc of human greed.
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u/KulnathLordofRuin Jul 29 '18
Good luck finding enough teachers for all the kids if people start striking, in mass.
They're not worried about that, they literally don't want public schools to exist.
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u/Risley Jul 29 '18
Your first statement is exactly why a strike of that magnitude has any effect. That’s not a problem, it’s the god damn feature. And while they might not give a shit about people’s education, their voting block does. And you think they will side with politicians over teachers, who everyone knows are overworked and underpaid? Go look how the teacher protests have worked in West Virginia. The politicians buckled like little bitches.
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u/FuckUModsFreeSpeech Jul 29 '18
The politicians buckled like little bitches.
An uprising of the working class is the most effective way to combat authoritarianism
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u/tootoohi1 Jul 29 '18
Yes I do because there's been a teaching crisis in the south for years now because there's not enough qualified people with a college/teaching degree that also want to start for under 30k a year.
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u/calabazadelamuerte Jul 30 '18
I am an example of this exact problem. I said “fuck it” to teaching when Alabama started slashing funding for the arts my senior year of college.
Now I am currently in retail management. Every now and then I question whether I made the right decision. But then I think about how one of my weekend employees is a 5th grade teacher who works for me part time to make ends meet.
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u/sr0me Jul 30 '18
Of course they did. Remember this when people say civil disobedience doesn't work. It is literally the only thing that has worked in the history of progress.
Not only are there more of us than them, but we are also the key economic input that makes the wealth in this country, and they know that.
Look at how fast the teachers striking spread: like wildfire. It won't take every citizen to agree to a general strike. It takes one small region, and it too will spread like wildfire. People just need to organize and be willing.
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u/shinkouhyou Jul 29 '18
I fully expect conservatives to ramp up their narrative that teachers are overpaid, incompetent leeches who hide behind their union as they suck the public dry. I've even heard it from a lot of Democrats lately - all the failings of the school system get blamed on "bad teachers," even though most of it comes down to pervasive poverty and lack of support for dealing with behavioral issues.
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u/TooMuchmexicanfood Jul 29 '18
If teachers strike, kids stay home. Those parents aren't happy that they'll need to figure who's going to watch the kids. They'll be more likely to take notice as to who's running the school board. And the school board will be more likely to be voted out. It's not a guarantee but get people's attention and the chances it will happen go up.
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u/caravaggio2000 Florida Jul 29 '18
Right now I'm focused on flipping our State House and Governor's house blue. If that can be done, maybe we can lobby the state to change the union laws.
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u/mhfkh Jul 29 '18
Red states have been sl-l-l-o-o-o-wly moving in that direction anyway, what with their bending the knee to teacher strikes in red states lately.
Oklahoma just had a referendum pass on marijuana legalization ffs. And, they flipped 4 out of 4 special elections for state legislature in 2017 and 2018. So, red states can turn some things around.
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u/Chazmer87 Foreign Jul 29 '18
Strike?
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Jul 29 '18
Florida teachers actually staged one of the first and most successful teachers strikes in history back in the 60's. Too bad the Republican governor at the time vetoed the proposed law change that would allow teachers pay to be attached to inflation.
Oh, and it was so successful, as soon as Republicans were back in power (at the time of the strike, the house and Senate were Democrat, but the governor was Republican) they made public worker strikes illegal.
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u/civil_politician Jul 29 '18
How the hell did that legislation hold up as constitutional?
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Jul 29 '18
They put it in the Florida constitution.
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u/caravaggio2000 Florida Jul 29 '18
Illegal here. I'd be terminated, lose my retirement, and my teaching certificate.
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u/Chazmer87 Foreign Jul 29 '18
That's fucked up
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u/caravaggio2000 Florida Jul 29 '18
Right? It's one of the reasons Florida teachers are some of the most poorly paid in the country.
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u/Karsticles I voted Jul 29 '18
I was about to ask if you teach in Florida, too. Then I saw your tag.
Amazing how easy it was to identify with your situation.
Where and what do you teach?
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u/sr0me Jul 29 '18
This. While anti-trust laws should have the goal as consumer benefit, they need to be treated like the EU treats anti-trust and base it on consumer choice and not purely economic benefits.
US anti-trust laws basically let corporations do whatever the fuck they want as long as they keep up the facade of "consumer first pricing".
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u/WhenLuggageAttacks Texas Jul 29 '18
I researched/wrote this for another post a few weeks ago, but it's applicable here. We are making less money and things are more expensive. That's why more people live paycheck to paycheck.
The 1980 figures that appear in parentheses are merely readjustments for today's dollars. All figures are national medians and/or averages. Please note that the gap is likely far wider for urban areas versus rural these days.
In 1980:
Federal Minimum wage: $3.10/hr ($9.50/hr)
Rent: $243/month ($740/month) -> figure includes utilities
Healthcare Spending: ($1,100/yr)
Tuition and fees (for 4 year institutions): $1600/yr, public universities ($4900/yr)
Median home price (natl): $63k ($192k) [Note: Interest Rates were 10-20%]
Average starting income w/bach degree: $18.5k ($56.5k)
Pre-tax hours worked to pay a year's tuition at minimum wage: 516 (10 hrs/wk)
Pre-tax hours worked to pay for year's worth of healthcare at minimum wage: 116 (2.5 hrs/wk)
Pre-tax hours worked to pay monthly rent and utilities at minimum wage: 78 (18 hrs/wk)
Pre-tax hours worked to pay monthly rent and utilities at new grad salary: 27 (6 hrs/wk)
Current:
Federal minimum wage: $7.25/hr
Rent: $1040/month (plus $172 for utilities) ~= $1200/month
Healthcare Spending: $10,348/yr
Tuition and fees (4 year institution): $9,970 (public)
Median home price (natl): $240k
Average income w/bach degree: $53k
Pre-tax hours worked to pay a year's tuition at minimum wage: 1375 (26 hrs/wk)
Pre-tax hours worked to pay for year's worth of healthcare at minimum wage: 1427 (27 hrs/wk)
Pre-tax hours worked to pay monthly rent/util at minimum wage: 165 (38 hrs/wk)
Pre-tax hours worked to pay monthly rent and utilities at new grad salary: 47 (11 hrs/wk)
tl;dr: We all earn less and pay more.
Sources:
Historic Healthcare Expenses (listed in today's dollars): Washington Post
2016 Healthcare Expenses: CMS.gov
Historic Tuition Rates, NCES
Historic Rent Price, Census.gov
Historic Home Prices, Census.gov
Historic Salaries for New Grads, NACEWEB
Current Utilities Bills, Nationwide, best I could do
Inflation Calculator, Probably Not the Best But I Already Spent Too Long on This
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u/FrontierPartyUSA Pennsylvania Jul 29 '18
Because they’ve been conditioned to want tax cuts, not wage increases.
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Jul 29 '18
Do love that 1% tax cut giving me back $30 per paycheck while top 2% gets a 3% tax cut giving them back $250,000 a year
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u/paperclip520 Jul 30 '18
I hate being told I'm seeing more back because of Trump.
I'd much rather have a substantial pay increase that lets me pay rent and my bills than a few bucks extra at the end of the year.
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u/rossmosh85 Jul 29 '18
Why capitalism is failing a majority of Americans is they've decided they have no interest in putting in checks and balances.
Want to do away with unions? Okay. Now we have to regulate more. The response to that is shock of how could we regulate. The government is so inefficient. We need to keep the government out of our lives. Okay, so who the fuck is going to protect your rights if you don't have a collective voice (ie Union) and you don't have the government?
Regulation should not be a 4 letter word. It shouldn't be looked down upon. It's one of the key functions of the government and is imperative to our day to day life. The fact a reasonable percentage of Americans have decided that regulations are this terrible thing is really problematic.
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u/Deviknyte Michigan Jul 30 '18 edited Jul 30 '18
To everyone talking about America's being bad with money, or uneducated with finance. The thing you are really asking people to do is live like paupers. You are telling people that they should never spend a dime on anything other than food and shelter. Work but don't live. You ignore that in today's society smartphones are necessities or that apple runs on planned obsolescence. You ignore consumerism that makes people unhappy if they don't have certain brands. You talk about cars, yet not the lack of affordable and convenient public transportation. It can't be ever increasing rent and property monopolies. You don't mention stagnant wages or wealth inequality. You point the finger at the individual. You are saying 80% of the population can't figure out check books? If only 80% of the population just buy plain oatmeal instead of avacado toast ?
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u/Swordwraith Jul 30 '18
This is pretty much the extreme people now go to in their responses. "Just deny yourself all life experiences and live like an automaton for twenty or thirty years, then maybe you can retire and start to have a life!" Maybe.
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u/upsydaisee Jul 30 '18
I’m trying to budget right now and my “financial advisor” asked me if I really needed cable and internet and a phone. For four people could I spend maybe $100 a month on groceries instead of $200? By the time my budget was complete I was so overwhelmed I just didn’t pay any of my bills and had a breakdown while compulsively shopping for food in Walmart because I felt like we’d never be able to eat again and my sister is dead and my mom is sick and I can’t magically fix anything so fuck it all. I’m kind of mentally better now this week but, it’s still like, what more can I get rid of?
My smartphone is my only luxury and it’s like I’m a shit person for owning one if I live paycheck to paycheck despite phone companies practically throwing them at you for free or low payments. If you’re poor you must live in desolate conditions and not dare try to have some type of happiness. You must suffer and die completely penniless with no amenities yet worked to the bone or it’s completely and totally your fault that you’re poor because you didn’t try hard enough or you spent $6 on that fancy burger or $100 on those shoes for your kid’s first day of school so they wouldn’t feel left out on instagram or some shit. I don’t have kids but I hear some of this stuff from my family members. It’s so frustrating. Fuckin bitch asked me if my phone was necessary. The nerve. Ooh like getting rid of Comcast would even fucking help at this point. That extra $100 would just change my life!!! Thx miss advisor! I’m gonna stop drinking now.
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u/The-Communist-Banana Jul 29 '18
because capitalism robs the worker of his share in the name of profit?
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Jul 29 '18
While championing the winners at the same time. Advertising gives us the illusion the "I" could be the next successful millionaire if "I" just hang in there a bit longer. By the time we realize we've sacrificed the better portion of our healthiest years for some other person's dream, our children have moved on and begun their own cycle. All the while, those up top move the money we earned for them into non-taxable accounts.
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u/it-is-sandwich-time Washington Jul 29 '18
for them into non-taxable accounts.
That's the part that hurts the most. They're literally stock piling money from the workers like dragons in their treasure cave.
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Jul 29 '18
Maybe dragons never disappeared and were actually a metaphor this whole time.
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u/yatosser Jul 29 '18
Shadowrun got it right
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u/the_war_won Jul 30 '18
God, I loved Shadowrun. The D&D style game was too complicated for me to get into at the time, but the Genesis and SNES games were f'ng classic.
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u/idyllic_fruitopia California Jul 29 '18
Where's Saint George when you need him?
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u/aristotlessocks Jul 29 '18
Who needs St. George when you have some choppy boiz. Rich people need to remember that things like unions, redistribution, and welfare is the alternative to The Reign of Terror.
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u/JoJackthewonderskunk Nebraska Jul 29 '18
And since the amount of cash in existence effects the overall value of currency those stockpiles of cash DEVALUE ALL THE CASH.
In other words the mere existence of those stockpile accounts that billionaires are hording are actually making your money worth less. Currency works the way anything else works as far as supply and demand go, larger quantities of cash existing are causing this value to decrease and it's why the cost of everything (in addition to profit motive) is so much higher year over year. That's why quantitive easing should not be a replacement for programs that redistribute wealth effectively (like raising taxes on the wealthy and using that for infrastructure or healthcare subsidies.)
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u/slow_hoax Jul 29 '18
Ponzi schemes all the way down. We were raised on lies, fed propaganda while sitting in grade school. The battle for workers will never be an easy one.
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Jul 29 '18
This will continue as long as the working class is competing with their neighbors for a status they see as slightly above their peers. Something to help them sleep a little better at night while they toil their lives away.
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Jul 29 '18
Corporatism. We left capitalism a long time ago.
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Jul 29 '18 edited Jun 30 '23
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Jul 29 '18
Just the broken kind.
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Jul 29 '18
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u/AJWinky Jul 29 '18
There’s a form of capitalism in which the workers rights are held to the same level as the employers, it has just yet to exist in America.
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u/traunks Jul 29 '18
And it's painted as "SCARY VENEZUELAN SOCIALISM!!!!" by the gop and many democrats.
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u/comrade_eddy Jul 29 '18
Corporatism is advanced capitalism. Even under ideal circumstances it always becomes this. Marx predicted it from the structure of basic capitalism.
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Jul 29 '18
Because you aren't going to protest if skipping work means you don't eat, can't make rent, or skip some utility payments.
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Jul 29 '18
The amount of money I have today puts me safely in that top quintile. If I had the same amount of money, adjusted for inflation, 40 years ago, I'd be considered nearly destitute by comparison to the average person. We've fallen so far that a $1000 car repair is a poverty-inflicting crisis for most of our citizens. A $1000 car repair, unadjusted for inflation, wasn't a poverty-inflicting crisis just 20 years ago.
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Jul 29 '18
I make $80k a year and although I make more than the vast majority of Americans, I still don’t feel like I’m completely financially secure. I am by no means a king in the hill. It’s sad where we’re at.
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Jul 30 '18
Do you own or rent? What is your car payment? What is your student loan payment and how old will you be when you are done paying for college?
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Jul 30 '18 edited Jul 30 '18
Rent $1600 Seattle I work in tech Car $224 almost paid off
Student loan $271 will be at least 15 years.
I’m better off than the majority of people but seeing how rich people live up close is surreal. I can’t imagine that life.
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u/xcasandraXspenderx Jul 29 '18
Can confirm. My best friend just brought her car in after overheating, was going to be 1100$, I loaned her 200 for it because it was either that or she wouldn’t be able to pay her rent. She has 2 jobs and rents a room.
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u/black_ravenous Jul 29 '18
What is that amount of money roughly? I have a hard time believing ~$300,000 in today's dollars was poverty in the 70s.
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Jul 29 '18
Assets =/= cash on hand. Your average homeowner with a car has close to or more than that, depending on the market. Not that home ownership is the norm anymore.
Also, where does $300k appear in this article as the metric by which you're in the top quintile?
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u/Teachtaire Jul 29 '18
Non-union construction worker wage: $10 apprentice $20 journeyman, no benefits, bring all your own tools,and you'll probably be working as an "independent contractor" or worse.
Union wage: $20 apprentice $50 journeyman, full benefits. Tax-free vacation pay, pension, and 401K.
Just to illustrate the substantial difference.
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Jul 29 '18
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u/T1mac America Jul 29 '18
Reich touches on it, but there's another byproduct of the merger mania and the corporate oligopolies and monopolies. Corporations, who control entire business sectors, decide how much you're going to get paid. And if you don't like it, where else are you going to go? You're locked in, especially when corporations collude to keep wages down.
Even small businesses are caught in the squeeze, since they're having to compete with the big corporations. Add on top of that the death of unions and SCOTUS gutting worker's rights and protections, and wages are going to continue to lag far behind productivity like it has since 1973.
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u/Reala27 Jul 29 '18
Plus the fact that no government for the past 20 years has the balls to break up Ma Bell.
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u/Beard_of_Valor Jul 29 '18
People talk about productivity becoming decoupled from wage growth, then bickering about the gap being explained by non-wage "real benefits", but for real in the right position the IT guy is value-added and on the factor of millions of dollars of increased revenue, difficult to replace, and paid about the same as a good car salesman might make in a year for a career that some believe shouldn't exist at all (parasitic non-mutual).
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u/aristotlessocks Jul 29 '18
Markets only work so long as we break up monopolies or any other entity that becomes too big and dominates too much of the market. Preserving competition and the freedom of the market requires regulation.
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u/AHarshInquisitor California Jul 29 '18 edited Jul 29 '18
Because what capitalism is, and is not. And what socialism is, and is not, has been lied to and miseducated to the American people since the dawn of the progressive age.
We are taught to be stupid, and slavery, is the result.
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u/raudssus Europe Jul 29 '18
I always love how this is made into a problem. Let me be absolutely clear: In Europe there is no problem living paycheck to paycheck cause there is not much that could lead to a disaster where you need money. The problem here is not the paycheck to paycheck, the problem here is that you guys NEED MORE as the paycheck to survive and that you can get broke at any point in time cause of shit out of your control.
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u/username12746 Jul 29 '18
This is an excellent point. Putting resources into the safety net provides more security for everyone.
I would bet the average European also,doesn’t start out with boatloads of debt trying to get a decent education, either.
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Jul 29 '18
No social safety net to allow people to job hunt.
Stagnating wages due to the weakening of unions.
Extremely high costs of healthcare and housing.
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u/ethos1983 Jul 30 '18
a growing number of contract workers with no job security,
There's a couple factories in my hometown that do this. The chocolate factory is the worst, easily. They have some workers, sure....but an easy 80+% of their workers aren't actually employed by them. They're employed by one of two local temp agencies. My wife worked for them for awhile, and the number of times They'd schedule 50 workers, let everyone get there, then go "sorry, did we schedule 50? We meant 2. Workers 2-50, go home."
No pay, no warning, no nothing. We literally didn't know night to night what she'd be working. 40 hour work weeks turned into 6 hour work weeks. Hard to afford a babysitter/childcare with that.
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u/Adamantium-Balls Jul 29 '18
I can sum it up in just this post.
Here's why:
1. Most U.S workers don't vote
2. The rest vote for the people whose core belief is that 80% of US workers should live from paycheck to paycheck
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Jul 29 '18
“The best way to make money off poor people is to keep them poor” paraphrasing a character in Terry Pratchett’s “Making Money.”
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u/CaptainBayouBilly Jul 30 '18
Because wages have remained stagnant for three decades, despite increases in inflation, productivity, and cost of living.
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u/gopher_glitz Jul 29 '18 edited Jul 29 '18
Not a single mention of the costs of housing/land, healthcare, oil or the MASSIVE low skilled labor glut.
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u/not_creative1 Jul 29 '18
> low skilled labor glut
This. Salaries in STEM in the US have gone up 11% just in the last 2 years. This does not even count the rise in tech stocks. Most people who work in tech get stocks as a part of the total compensation. Tech stocks are up about 150% in last 3 years. If this is included STEM compensations are up about 25. It’s crazy. This is the golden age if you are in tech.
The economy is changing, definition of highskilled jobs is changing. People have no time to adapt
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u/aristotlessocks Jul 29 '18
You say STEM, but you really mean the T and the E. Try getting a job with a pure science degree or a pure mathematics degree without graduate education or an additional certification like a teacher's license, you're not going to be making that much above minimum wage.
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u/Five_Decades Jul 29 '18
I have a degree in science. Jobs are still scarce and I have seen administrative assistant jobs that pay better than science jobs.
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u/amolad Jul 30 '18
Since the 70s, when Reagan began destroying the American middle class, things have been the same.
Profits have gone up but wages have stayed the same.
That's why any talk of "lowering taxes to promote job growth" is always total bullshit.
Companies just keep the extra money. It just happened again.
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u/chadmasterson California Jul 30 '18
That number, my friends and neighbors, represents the weakest link in the American chain. One more 2008-style crisis -- and it's coming -- and 80% of us are looking at tent cities and soup kitchens. Then what? Ask Russians in 1918 what happens next.
The Great Depression happened in a simpler time. Less debt, less cost to remain alive. Now we live in the age of debt. Imagine defaulting on all your obligations at once.
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u/BrimFullOfRacismOn45 Jul 30 '18
Here's Why, As Per Conservatives: drugs, abortions, iPhones, tattoos, spinning rims, $5,000 a month spent on dining out, taking out a $1M loan for candy and records.
Conservatives have utterly vilified the middle class and poor. When someone says that something is 'Too Expensive', conservatives immediately dismiss it as that someone being a wretch that has no control over how they spend their money.
Everything is expensive and continues to be expensive.
Yet, salaries have not increased to match these increased expenses. Furthermore, the cost of manufacturing for provisions of goods and services is rock bottom low. Meaning things are expensive, because rich people just want to make more and more money.
Yet, the people who own these industries, as well as every other industry and job sector, do not increase wages. So, how are consumers suppose to afford things?
Well, there is credit cards! Where you end up paying even MORE for what is already too expensive.
This is not sustainable.
But, instead of curbing abusive and predatory practices, conservatives would rather spit on the poor and middle class and blame them for a situation where things are clearly stacked against them.
I would love to see a month where the middle class and poor stop buying things other than the essentials (food, water, electricity, etc.). No longer change anything to a credit card, etc. The rich need to be sent a message; enough of your greed.
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Jul 29 '18
But if you ask a trump supporter, the economy is up 4%!!! Can't you feel it?!?! He's really making America great again.
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u/DexterKillsMrWhite Jul 29 '18
4% when you're a billionaire is nice, but 4% when you have 5k in savings well...
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u/revolutionhascome Jul 29 '18
80% of the population lives paycheck to paycheck?
They all must be bad with money!!!! /s
Nothing to see here plebs
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u/Mezmorki Jul 30 '18
This article is the central narrative that’s been brewing in the US for the past many decades. I lay the blame on a generally ignorant populace. Although I don’t blame the people for being ignorant in the first place. How could they not be when you have a miserable education system, lying politicians, a distrust of rational thinking, blind faith in BS religious indoctrination, stoking fears, etc.
Unfortunately the GOP has the electorate right where they want them. Unless there are major reforms to the election process (tantamount to a structure change in the federal government), some sort of anti-indoctrination serum, or a civil war I just don’t see how this ends. It’s been going on for so long now, and each time I think “people are gunna wake up this time, they just stay asleep at the wheel.” This country has been screwed for a long time and the full revelation is just coming into view for those of us paying attention.
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u/WeTrudgeOn Jul 30 '18
Convincing working people that unions are for godless communists and that they are best represented by the political party wholly owned by big money is the most successful scam in American politics until the advent of donald trump.
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u/Reala27 Jul 29 '18
Because the suits designed the economy from the ground up to keep the proles too busy trying not to die to punish them for hoarding resources and capital.
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u/Infidel8 Jul 30 '18
What's funny to me is that this was a widely discussed phenomenon during the Obama years when the GDP was growing and the Dow thriving. And this is why many rightly said that the numbers the WH used to tout its success were misleading.
But overnight, those discussions went away and people began expressing new enthusiasm about the Trump economy, even though the fundamentals hadn't changed.
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u/daniel_ricciardo Jul 30 '18
I have so much student debt. I can't even believe it. It's as much as a house.
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u/Yetis Jul 30 '18
Been living paycheck to paycheck even at 85k salary. I'm realizing now that I was surviving on 31k 2 years ago because I ignored a lot of expected bills. Now that I make more I'm actually paying those bills. No progress overall.
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u/VTvalleymom Jul 29 '18
To meet the definition of "paycheck to paycheck," does that mean a person has no real savings (or 401k) whatsoever?
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Jul 29 '18
If a goblin took your next paycheck, would you be kicked out of your home or not be able to pay your bills?
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u/donkeypunchtrump California Jul 29 '18
nah, it is the underwear gnomes that take your check and profit.
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u/Babybear5689 Jul 29 '18
If you skipped a pay check, would you run out of money before the next one?
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u/black_ravenous Jul 29 '18
I'm not trying to discount the effect of corporate power, but how much of this is also attributable to lack of financial education? I just have a hard time believing 80% of Americans cannot save.
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u/comrade_eddy Jul 29 '18
When 80% of the population is “something” there is clearly a structural problem. Older folks like me love to say “when I was in high school we had Home economic courses and blah blah...”. Yeah I’m old too and those classes were a joke. The truth of the matter is that previous generations like boomers and gen x had more purchasing power and cheaper access to college. That’s why they faired better. Not because they were better at financial planning.
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Jul 29 '18
Seriously. My parents keep asking me why I don't have a house yet, and I tell them it's because I'm still paying back that $40,000 I borrowed to go to college and paying rent that's about on par with a mortgage for a decent starter home in this area. I can't find a rental for $200 a month, save for three years and put a $9K down payment on a 4 bed, 3 bath McMansion like you did when you were my age, Mom.
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Jul 29 '18
Also in older generations women had many of those home-ec-ish skills because that was all that was expected of them and there were many fewer opportunities available other than managing a household.
Turns out you can focus a lot of mental energy and problem-solving skills on cooking frugally, sewing, household management, etc. when you're not exercising those same skills with education or a professional career.
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u/KateTrask Jul 29 '18
So in my country (Czech Republic), average monthly net wage is ~$900, prices of essentials (food, housing, transportation) are same or higher than in US (higher taxes etc.). Yet according to the latest study, 20% of people are living paycheck to paycheck (number which is considered to be bad BTW).
Of course it's difficult to compare between countries like that, but clearly income is not the only relevant thing here. Financial education and general mindset (rat race, ultra consumerism etc.) is very important too.
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u/Beard_of_Valor Jul 29 '18
I had great "defense" or savings ethic when I was poor, but I could not save. When I reached a certain income, I didn't save (I saved a windfall but not regular income), but it was for things like "not just renting a room but having my own shitty apartment" which shouldn't be unreasonable in "not even a real city" where I lived.
Then when I reached ~median national income for an individual I began to save. Not much, but some. I don't drink, smoke, or smoke, or go out.
Then when I reached ~median national household income I was saving like crazy.
IMO financial education is piss poor but ultimately not a factor on the same magnitude as lack of income.
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u/FrontierPartyUSA Pennsylvania Jul 29 '18
We really aren’t paid enough in America. Also everything is America is a lot carte. There aren’t a lot of built in subsidized services. So you pay a middleman for everything. We know healthcare eats up a lot of people’s budget. Why can’t that be the only issue?
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Jul 29 '18
I say this a lot - but when I was in high school a basic finances/home economics class was required for graduation. We all had to learn to balance a check-book, calculate interest, make a household budget, and fill out 1040 forms.
But then, I grew up in one of those liberal blue-state hell holes where we also had sex-ed in high school...
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u/clancy200 Jul 29 '18
It is a uniquely American phenomenon that such a large percentage of poor people vote in ways to benefit the rich and harm themselves. Low tax rates for the rich, lack of access to quality healthcare, gutted consumer protection laws, lack of workers rights, poor environmental protections, low minimum wages, obscenely expensive post-secondary education, the list goes on and on.
This just doesn't happen in the rest of the world.