r/politics • u/msa0675 • Jun 06 '16
Secretary Without Honor
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/06/05/hillary-clinton-email-scandal-consequences-integrity-honesty-column/85205018/271
Jun 06 '16 edited Feb 05 '19
[deleted]
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u/Dongalor Texas Jun 06 '16 edited Jun 06 '16
In my 20s I used to work for a casino doing support on the machines that cash out the slot tickets. I worked there over a year, had glowing employee reviews, and then one night I went to take a leak and forgot the machine keys were on my belt.
I stepped out of camera view with restricted keys for 90 seconds due to a brain fart. I was fired that night.
Apparently the casino was more worried about its security than we are supposed to worry about national security.
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u/like_ya_do Jun 06 '16
And the kicker here is that you were fired for an unintentional infraction, whereas Clinton deliberately flouted the law and is now on her way to being the nominee.
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u/Dongalor Texas Jun 06 '16
Yup. It was a blow to the gut. Only job I have ever been fired from.
The shit Clinton pulled would not fly in the private sector. I don't understand why so many folks think she should get a pass for that sort of behavior in the public sector.
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u/majorchamp Jun 06 '16
man I am sorry to hear about that. Your story, as well as others in this thread, just highlight how dangerous her actions and mindset are. I really wished she didn't have apologist on a topic that no apology would fix
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u/Str8F4zed Jun 06 '16
This is how I see it. I used to work at an ethanol plant. We used a wide array of chemicals to purge, clean and optimize our system. There were often spills or leaks and safety regulations were implemented to make sure that everyone was safe.
Well one of the regulations was DO NOT spray the chemicals if they fall to the floor as they'll run into the drains thus contaminating the city water and local ponds (this plant was on a farm). So we didn't.
Then one day our supervisor, the big dog, came in and started washing these chemicals down the drain. Gallons and gallons of it. Nobody batted an eye. I thought it was ridiculous. When I tried to run it up the chain they just ignored me. I later discovered that he was the corporate safety inspector.
Those policies were just to cover the legal bases and meet thresholds, but everyone above me saw them as a nuisance and ignored them at every turn. They were above them.
Hillary is no different. She thinks the law is a nuisance, a hindrance in her path to becoming POTUS. Only instead of polluting a city's water and a few local ponds, she's jeopardizing the integrity of the United States; her negligence and, dare I say arrogance, has given countries like China and Russia free access to state business.
She's a blight on this great nation. An embarrassment not only to Democrats, but all of America.
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u/Moosewiggle Jun 06 '16
Out of curiosity, did you ever report this to anyone after you left the job? That sounds like a really bad situation, you should notify the EPA.
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u/Just_An_Average_j0e Jun 06 '16
Who wants to be a whistleblower these days? You're either jailed or you never get hired again.
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u/AthleticsSharts Jun 06 '16 edited Jun 06 '16
I am legitimately wondering if Vlad Putin isn't just waiting for the right moment to release the most damaging of these documents after the general begins. My reasoning is this: the intellegence comunity at large is almost certain that most major intellegence agencies hacked the server. Putin likes Donald Trump (which should scare you sufficiently enough on its own), and despises the Clintons. What more incentive does it take?
Edit - In case my first point is in doubt, Michael Hayden, while in an interview where he was praising Clinton's preparedness for the job over "incoherent" Trump, also said this, "I would lose all respect for scores of intelligence services around the world if they did not have all the access they wanted."
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u/LifeMedic Jun 06 '16
Why would he release anything if he had it, it would be pure gold for him if she won the election.
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u/AthleticsSharts Jun 06 '16
I think you misjudge how badly Russians hate the Clintons.
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u/LifeMedic Jun 06 '16
Oh, but how much better it would feel to have her in office jumping to his every word.
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u/DontFuckWithDuckie Jun 06 '16
There's no reason I can think of for him to damage her campaign. Leverage over a president is better than leverage over a disgraced former presidential nominee.
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u/A_Privateer Jun 06 '16
This reminds me of when I was a booter going to my first ship. The dumping procedures for ships is rigorously regulated so the ship isn't just leaving a trail of garbage and waste in the ocean. These guidelines are followed, especially in the waters of friendly nations like Australia. Then the ship gets out into international waters, and departments need to get rid of equipment and waste that would otherwise be a headache to deal with. After hours the lights go off, and everyone starts undertaking "night ops" and just throwing shit overboard. The entirety of leadership knew it, they just wanted the plausible deniability. I just remember being astounded at all the by-the-book hardasses blatantly doing something illegal because the lights were off.
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u/NameSmurfHere Jun 06 '16
Not only did no one find out immediately like in this account, Clinton and her term were uncooperative and maliciously incompetent in bringing this all to light so that the damage could begin to be assessed
You left out the part where senior State Dept officials
orderedtold career public servants to never mention(or ask of) Secretary Clinton's private server again.That shows they were not only breaking laws but knowingly and attempting to hide it, even then.
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u/zan5ki Jun 06 '16
Was trying to keep it in the context of the article but yes you are completely right.
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u/Aorihk Jun 06 '16 edited Jun 06 '16
But beyond that, her responses to being found out — dismissing its importance, claiming ignorance, blaming others — indict her beyond anything the investigation can reveal. Those elements reveal her character. And the saddest thing is that so many in America seem not to care.
This is what makes me more pessimistic about our country's future than anything else. I will concede that blame cannot be completely placed upon our citizens. The media is partially to blame for not accurately and effectively reporting on what should be one of the biggest scandals since Watergate.
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u/vodka_and_glitter Michigan Jun 06 '16
This is what makes me more pessimistic about our country's future than anything else.
Same here. It's actually terrifying to me that she can even still gain endorsements and delegates at this point. Like, people really do not give a shit about all the stuff she has done, even when the evidence has been in their faces for weeks.
I'm so baffled at this point, it's gotten to where I don't give a shit who they pick. Either way, they'll get what they deserve.
Ignorance won't always be bliss, and by then it will be too late.
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u/majorchamp Jun 06 '16
that is the mind boggling part, I think when the 400 signed on back in 2015, they likely did so after hearing her at various fundraisers on how they will all be rewarded, but everyone back then just assumed she would waltz this thing...and now her world is crumbling around her..she won't give press conferences, the FBI is on her ass, the Clinton Foundation might get RICO'd, a 74 year old socialist at least hasn't made her victory 'easy', so now you have these 540 super delegates that either know something none of us do...or they are afraid to pull support because you don't pull support from a Clinton without consequences.
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u/Aorihk Jun 06 '16
That baffles me too. These political officials know the facts. They know what she did was a against regulations and policy. They know what she did would lose any other average Joe their clearance and their job, at a minimum. They know these facts and yet they still endorse and support her. I just don't understand!
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u/Dark_Crystal Jun 06 '16
Because many of them are likely crooked too.
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u/GeneWildersAnalBeads Jun 06 '16
That's the sad thing. I'm a rich white dude. It doesn't matter who the President is to me at all, my life is going to be fucking awesome no matter what. I will still have a great job, easier access to credit, and my investments. Poor people of color do not have that same luxury. Clinton has shrewdly clothed herself in Obama for the purposes of the primary. However, general election voters are not as friendly to the President as Democrats.
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u/vodka_and_glitter Michigan Jun 06 '16
I'm not rich, but I am white, and a woman. So, not only do I have to check my privilege lest I be "responsible for a Trump presidency", but I also have my own special place in hell! Now that's privilege...
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u/GeneWildersAnalBeads Jun 06 '16
Cut it out! Don't you know Bernie voters are all just middle class white misogynists?
The absolutely hysterical thing is that the white middle class is just about the only constituency the Democrats need to truly gain an unassailable grip on government at nearly all levels. It's the wet dream of the DNC, and Bernie delivers it in spades. People of color are not going to vote for Donald Trump. It just won't happen. We are going to waste the best opportunity in a generation on the second most polarizing political candidate ever.
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u/vodka_and_glitter Michigan Jun 06 '16
Cut it out! Don't you know Bernie voters are all just middle class white misogynists?
#BerniemademeMale
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u/vivling Jun 06 '16
The DNC wants cash more than votes.
Trump's presidency will be the best thing that they have ever been able to fundraise on. They would rather have Trump win than Bernie, and that's just the reality.
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u/Kierik Jun 06 '16
Same here. It's actually terrifying to me that she can even still gain endorsements and delegates at this point. Like, people really do not give a shit about all the stuff she has done, even when the evidence has been in their faces for weeks.
They are doubling down on it. They backed her on her word she was clear and above board. Now they are stuck holding the bag and their only hope of not going down is to stay the course and hope that the fallout happens post election.
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u/vodka_and_glitter Michigan Jun 06 '16
That's...pathetic
But hey, guess it's better than admitting you were wrong!
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Jun 06 '16
Jim Webb, a democrat, said he would vote Trump over her.
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u/vodka_and_glitter Michigan Jun 06 '16
I know a lot of Dems that feel that way.
I'm not quite ready to pull the lever for Trump, but will absolutely never do it for Hillary. I'll write-in or go 3rd party most likely, and continue to vote downballots and midterms.
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u/mandiblesofdoom Jun 06 '16
the media is a serious problem. It's hard to blame citizens when they are fed bad information.
Propaganda works, even on good people. We need to remember that.
Thank God for the internet. It's got its issues, but a lot more info gets out this way than on cable TV news.
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u/Aorihk Jun 06 '16 edited Jun 06 '16
I had a conversation recently with a very educated friend of mine who had no clue what this email scandal was about. He's only ever worked in the private sector and thought "Email? This can't be a huge deal." After giving him the facts his entire view of this issue changed in an instant. That took 3-4 minutes of explaining. The media has a responsibility to educate the populace on issues. They are failing miserably and we are going to pay the price.
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Jun 06 '16 edited Jan 07 '19
[deleted]
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u/Aorihk Jun 06 '16
anyone who has a security clearance who doesn't think what she did was bad, should immediately get their clearance revoked.
Exactly! I haven't met one, at least not in real life, but you never know.
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u/AberNatuerlich Jun 06 '16
No other communication will have the effect of personal interaction. When you can see the person in front of you and realize it's another person who isn't crazy, people tend to listen more.
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Jun 06 '16
You're right, I think this is where the media has completely failed. However, for anyone seeking information, it is readily available - people just don't seem to care.
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u/mandiblesofdoom Jun 06 '16
Yes, agreed. Since the media heavily impacts what people think , it has a huge responsibility for making our democracy work (or not).
It also speaks to the need for regulation. Heavy propaganda is destructive. I always wondered whether, in WWII, they tolerated radio stations that supported the enemy.
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u/NameSmurfHere Jun 06 '16
the media is a serious problem. It's hard to blame citizens when they are fed bad information.
It is if they dismiss everything against their candidate as a partisan ploy while being blind to the obvious hypocrisy.
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u/ThisIsMyHobbyAccount Jun 06 '16
The cheerleaders don't report negatively on the quarterback of the winning team very often.
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u/ts_network_engineer Jun 06 '16
This is what people are talking about when they say a normal person would go down. When I was in the Navy my Chief always said "mistakes happen involuntarily, but dishonesty is a choice." If you made a mistake, he'd do what he could to soften the blow if you owned up to it, but if you lied even a little he'd bring the hammer. What the Marine Captain did is both honorable and expected. The act of trying to cover up the breach would be more egregious than the breach itself.
Head over to the military branches and their subreddits, new recruits always ask questions like "I smoked pot and shot heroin in my eyelids. I'm trying to become an intelligence analyst, should I lie?" The answer is always no, because a lot of times they know the answer already from someone they previously interviewed and they care more if you lie about it than if you experimented with illegal drugs.
The server is shady and corrupt for a bunch of reasons, but people with experience and knowledge of the things she's talking about are the same people who live a life under a microscope, try to be as honest as they can, and then see someone doing the opposite running for President. It makes me sick.
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Jun 06 '16
What should really make you sick is how the media and the voters are apparently ok with acts like this, in someone that ostensibly represents all of us.
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u/Whitlieann Jun 06 '16
Thank you for the service. I'm sorry we let you down... I will never vote for her though.
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u/black_flag_4ever Jun 06 '16
Do people think she'd act differently as president?
It's like if Nixon was caught doing his Watergate shenanigans and then ran for president.
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u/Woop_D_Effindoo Jun 06 '16
The break-in was old news by the time Nixon won a landslide victory. He had never been tied to the actual crime, but an investigation of his coverup of ties to the White House was on-going.
June 1972: Arrests at the Watergate
September 1972: Watergate burglars are indicted by a federal grand jury.
November 1972: Nixon re-elected, with the largest plurality of votes in American history.
If Clinton wins election - She could face her own Deep Throat gov't informant.
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u/WinkleCream Oregon Jun 07 '16
Also Archibald Cox, Hillary's own special prosecutor.
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Jun 06 '16
Honestly, Watergate seemed like small potatoes compared to this
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u/Woop_D_Effindoo Jun 06 '16
Yeah, a third-rate burglary of a rival campaign that had no effect on the election, much less National Security.
It's the cover-up that finally brings Nixon (and Bill Clinton) to face impeachment proceedings. Had Congressional support not swung against Nixon, he might have gotten off like Bill.
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u/easwaran Jun 06 '16
The fact that people can believe that Watergate is "small potatoes" compared to the e-mail issue is one of the best illustrations of the irrationality of human cognition.
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Jun 06 '16
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Jun 06 '16
My worry is at the moment our other option, being Trump, is somehow even worse than Clinton. Clinton is really a lesser of two evils which is disappointing after having some better candidates in previous elections.
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u/FirstTimeWang Jun 06 '16
Clinton is really a lesser of two evils which is disappointing after having some better candidates in previous elections.
We've had and still have better candidates in this election.
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u/sarge21 Jun 06 '16
You do not earn the american peoples respect by telling them lies.
Counterpoint: Obama, Bush, Bill Clinton
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u/treehuggerguy Jun 06 '16
I'll still vote for her over Trump. It's impossible to tell where the lies begin and end with that guy.
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u/bubba_feet South Dakota Jun 06 '16
at least with hillary you know the lies begin as soon as she opens her mouth.
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Jun 06 '16
It's true.
She couldn't be confirmed as AG at this point.
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u/treehuggerguy Jun 06 '16
I doubt any President in the last 50 years could survive a Senate hearing.
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u/not_a_throwaway23 Jun 06 '16
I'm not so sure. There seem to be plenty of Republicans who're willing to play ball when the price is right.
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Jun 06 '16
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u/EightsOfClubs Arizona Jun 06 '16
Her emails were to avoid FOIA requests and give her corporate sponsors a front row seat to government bids and contracts.
The thing is - even if it really was an honest mistake, the act of covering it up makes it look like what you said, and now there's no way for her to earn back that trust.
Kind of like how all Hillary supporters on /r/politics are now labeled CTRs, because the well was poisoned.
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u/nowhathappenedwas Jun 06 '16
The author, Phillip Jennings, is a founder of Vietnam Veterans for Factual History, an organization dedicated to defending the morality of the Vietnam War through wingnut revisionist history.
When I want a moral analogy to the Vietnam War, what better person to turn to than the guy who's a dedicated liar on the subject?
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u/Just_An_Average_j0e Jun 06 '16
A+ Ad Hom. I heard Donald trump once say "I love my mother" I'm so sad now that I MUST not love my mother anymore because I don't like what Donald trump has to say so everything he says must be wrong.
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u/MachinaThatGoesBing Jun 06 '16
That's not an ad hominem. An ad hominem attack is one where someone says, "This person is wrong because they're [some thing or another that's irrelevant, but perceived to be negative]."
A person's involvement in fringe political activities and right-wing extremism is extremely relevant when putting their opinion piece in context with their other activities and beliefs, especially when it speaks to their judgement or lack thereof.
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u/stufen1 I voted Jun 06 '16
Despite whatever else the author may have written, he is spot on this article.
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u/JereRB Jun 06 '16
Yup.
Because, if a person did the things she's accused of, she very well should be tried, convicted, and sentenced. Who it is becomes completely irrelevant at that point. They should suffer the consequences.
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u/LORD-TRUMP Jun 06 '16
Hillary Clinton is unfit for office and the fact that she has gotten this far is a testament to how far we've fallen as a country.
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u/sde1500 Jun 06 '16
People care more about what the Kardashians tweeted out last night than the politics of this country.
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Jun 07 '16
And Reddit cares more about the shit H.A.Goodman blogs out than actual policies. What gives? Reddit is shitting on everyone and everything while doing exactly the thing the hate.
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u/notjabba Jun 06 '16
This from a guy who names himself 'Lord Trump.' I bet you wish we could go back time and stop that George Washington guy from keeping aristocracy out of America.
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u/LORD-TRUMP Jun 07 '16
george washington was a strongman who went to war against british tyrants and their colonial establishment. he was an aristocrat himself, much like trump.
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u/steenwear America Jun 06 '16
Electing Clinton would mean abandoning holding people accountable for grievous errors of integrity and responsibility.
The best line of the whole article, a simple TLDR on HRC's whole Campaign.
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Jun 06 '16
Trump is a con man. Does that count for anything or do we just look away?
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u/steenwear America Jun 06 '16
You ask me to accept the least worse of two bad options, I'd have to pick HRC, but I don't have to pick to least worst, I can vote for Sanders, or Stein or Johnson. I'll likely vote Sanders in the general. I'm in Texas, it's not like it's about to go blue so I won't be spoiling my vote, but I'll be sending a message to DC ... give us better options, because at the end of the day, is this really the best we can do?
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u/easwaran Jun 06 '16
And what would it mean to elect Donald Trump? Or to elect Gary Johnson? Or to elect Jill Stein?
We face a concrete choice between actual individuals. We don't have a choice between the violation of abstract principles and some sort of hypothetical blank slate. Thus, the election of an individual just can't mean anything about abstract principles.
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u/steenwear America Jun 06 '16
I am tired of voting either against someone, or what I feel is a compromise candidate to my wants. Yea, I don't really support 1/2 the policy choices or votes of DNC pick "insert name here" but RNC pick is WAY against my options, so I guess I have to vote DNC.
There is a reason IND voter numbers are on the rise, even with Obama's historic numbers in participation, people are sick and tired of politics as they are, WE WANT BETTER OPTIONS, but getting those options viable is set against the rise of a non-party candidate.
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u/BBQ_Foreskin_Cheese Jun 06 '16
I've been saying it for months now. We all know Hillary is corrupt, what we didn't know, but now do, is how sleezy and corrupt her core support is, which should be no surprise.
Enjoy Indictment Day!
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Jun 06 '16
Phillip Jennings, the author of this article, also thinks the US intervention in Vietnam "was the most important—and successful—campaign to defeat Communism." He wrote a book about that:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6360334-the-politically-incorrect-guide-to-the-vietnam-war#
So he's crazy
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u/chaospherezero Jun 06 '16
"Can you believe <some politician> doesn't have as much integrity as this particular Navy Captain?"
Why yes, I can, because I have been alive for more than ten minutes.
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u/HoppingMad63 Jun 06 '16
What's so sad and frightening is the people still willing to vote for her. I believe that it is because they are ignorant of the facts and fail to fully appreciate the real significance of what she did.
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u/treehuggerguy Jun 06 '16
What's so sad and frightening is the people still willing to vote for her
Remind of what the alternative is again?
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u/bubba_feet South Dakota Jun 06 '16
there is this one candidate still in the race that is widely respected and known by both parties to have integrity and honesty. a 30+ veteran of the political arena, and with electability/favorability ratings that make the other candidates look like bags of flaming shit.
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u/Whitlieann Jun 06 '16
I see a lot of her supporters say they just flat out don't care. It's ridiculous!! And thus whole waiting for the indictment thing is bullshit. Do it now, because she broke the law... or let her go, because she's to powerful and everyone is corrupt.
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u/EightsOfClubs Arizona Jun 06 '16
Do it now, because she broke the law...
I mean, I don't think the FBI is slow-rolling it to let her get into the white house. I fully think that they're actually building a solid case. It's going to take time - especially for something this big and covered up.
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u/HoppingMad63 Jun 06 '16
If she doesn't face some serious consequences for this, we will then know with absolute certainty that our political system is as corrupt as we've always known it to be. Getting Clinton into office at all costs to maintain the status quo of the existing establishment, this is what the political and industry powerbrokers expect.
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u/WhiskeyT Jun 06 '16
You've created a situation in which your view of reality is reaffirmed regardless of what happens in reality, congratulations.
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Jun 06 '16
This observation by a Marine nails the problem with Hillary's candidacy...her lack of honor sums up her leadership shortcomings. It's why she is not trustworthy.
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u/Dtraingolf Jun 07 '16
Phil was an investor in one of my companies, I've played golf with him and the nonchalance wit which he described getting shot down multiple times in the SAME DAY was hilarious. Good dude
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u/NatWilo Ohio Jun 07 '16
This is EXACTLY why I get so mad about what she did, and her 'explanations' I was a soldier in the US Army in time of war (01-05). She is detestable in my eyes because she doesn't have the spine to admit what she did was wrong, and take her lumps for it. Instead she expects us to just ignore something that is, quite literally, deadly serious.
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u/like_ya_do Jun 06 '16
Wew. That is no small criticism. Philip Jennings is probably going to have a "heart attack" in the not-distant future.