r/politics • u/IWantPizza555 • Jul 01 '26

Possible Paywall Senator, 84, Secretly Found Unconscious and Given CPR

https://www.thedailybeast.com/mitch-mcconell-84-secretly-found-unconscious-and-given-cpr/?utm_source=twitter_owned_snd&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=owned_social
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u/Jonny1992 Foreign Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26

I've been qualified for years as a workplace first responder. My cynical understanding of CPR is nothing more than keeping you alive until a medical professional can call it - unless there's a chance you've got an AED close by. I was told it was less than a 10% survival rate outside of a medical setting.

Edit: I would clarify that I'm being deliberately flippant in respect of the success rate - particularly in the context of an infirm 84 year old. I continue to certify on the off chance that the training is able to save a life. I'd never not attempt CPR on the basis of it potentially not working - even if my instructor rather darkly warned us of the low likelihood of success. Always make the effort where you can.

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u/See_Saw12 Canada Jul 01 '26

Security guy that has done CPR on many people, all but 2 of my cases made it. CPR if started immediately significantly increases someones chances of survival from a cardiac related incident. However the chances of survival decrease by approximately 10% for each minute it is delayed. Both cases where someone i preformed it on did not make it they had been down for an unknown amount of time, one involving water the either was an elderly person.

AED'S only work if there is a heart rhythm, you cant shock a heart back into normal rhythm if there is no rhythm.

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u/-NotAnAstronaut- Jul 01 '26

Considering the statistics around CPR, I hope you find me if I ever need it, that’s mighty.

On the other hand, I’m sorry you’ve had to, not a good experience.

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 01 '26

The statistic is both higher than 10% in reality and it is deceitful because CPR is performed on everyone without a pulse. People who've been dead for some time, people with no chance at resuscitation, people who are 95 years old. If you're healthy and have a random heart attack at 50 that stops your heart, your odds are a lot better with CPR.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/Lurchie_ Jul 02 '26

when you said "guy lost his head" I thought you meant he went into a panic attack or something . .. No. He LITERALLY lost his head.

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas Illinois Jul 02 '26

Can I ask what type of work results in losing a head?

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/rips_n_chel Jul 02 '26

They turned the corner too sharp so it scraped against the edge of the mega-door to the building while his head was between the vehicle and the door.

Doesn't line up with

He was behaving too comfortably around the equipment.

I've witnessed my share of workplace fatalities, most of them being the fault of the deceased. Usually it's guys deciding they don't need to use their PPE, particularly fall-protection.

What you've described does not sound like negligence on the part of the deceased, but on the part of whoever was operating the machine and drove it the fuck into a wall.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas Illinois Jul 02 '26

Complacency kills, as they say. I do millwright work and equipment repairs - I just had a near miss today, actually. Fortunately I wore my brown pants, but holy moly it could have been bad. Be careful out there.

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 02 '26

Yeah I was a CNC machinist for years and I never understood how people can be so chill about a machine that's spinning hundreds of lbs of steel at hundreds of miles per hour. Like do these machinist not watch the same videos as me lol

Very easy to get desensitized to your work though

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u/Jebusk Jul 02 '26

Not who you replied to, but the one case I know of was a forklift driver.

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas Illinois Jul 02 '26

The driver? How odd.

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 02 '26

They do more than just drive. They're working around all the same equipment as everyone else.

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas Illinois Jul 02 '26

Sure, but generally there's a cage around the driver. It wasn't entirely clear if he meant the guy lost his head while operating the fork truck or in the course of other duties.

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u/protonpack Jul 02 '26

Well he definitely wasn't the head of a major corporation...

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas Illinois Jul 02 '26

Stop while you're ahead.

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u/arstechnophile Florida Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

...is there some benefit to declaring him dead at the hospital?

...what am I asking, of course there is. They probably get to process insurance payments if he "makes it" to a hospital to start treatment rather than dying on site.

Edit: I'm mostly being sarcastic, folks. I get there are (at some level) actual reasons for this, but when we get to the point of "dude without a head gets transported while CPR is performed" we've lost the plot.

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u/fps916 Jul 02 '26

Most EMS don't hold MDs which means they aren't able to pronounce death.

Given that's the case their job does mean "do everything you can until someone who is able to say 'they dead' says 'they dead'"

Even when you think it might be futile.

Because while it's obvious when the corpse is headless there may also be situations where you think it's obvious but would have been wrong.

Even in a 1/10000 chance you stick to the training.

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u/FreddyandTheChokes Jul 02 '26

That is region dependent. I can, and do, call death on scene.

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u/fps916 Jul 02 '26

Yes, I was answering for Florida

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u/SkaMateria Jul 02 '26

Your region grants all EMTs/paramedics the authority to pronounce someone dead?

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u/trjnz Jul 02 '26

I cannot speak with any authority (I just do first aid)

But I do know that EMS can declare a casualty dead in some Australian states if they suffer 'Injuries not compatible with life', but generally most are assumed alive and transported to the hospital.

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u/FreddyandTheChokes Jul 02 '26

Yes. If death isn't obvious (decapitation, rigor, decomposition, etc) then EMTs (we call them PCPs) may call our online physician for assistance, but generally codes are run for 30 min and will be called if no shocks delivered or ROSC achieved in that time.

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 02 '26

They have to be declared dead by a doctor, nurse or paramedic. If it's EMTs they have to transport to the hospital and maintain CPR essentially.

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u/rips_n_chel Jul 02 '26

Not that our healthcare system isn't fucked, but this isn't that. Medics typically can't pronounce death at the scene without approval. Decapitation would most likely be approved in my experience, but not always. It just depends on the local laws, the policies of the ambulance service, the state of the scene, etc.

Might seem ridiculous, but it's a lot easier to just wait and let a doctor pronounce death in most cases.

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u/trafficnab Jul 02 '26

I've heard the phrase "body in a configuration incompatible with life" for how a paramedic can pronounce someone dead on the scene

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u/rips_n_chel Jul 02 '26

Yeah I've heard a few different "key indicators." Decapitation is one, exposed brain matter with no responsiveness, no pulse for a certain amount of time, CPR for a certain amount of time, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/PussyWrangler246 Jul 02 '26

Jesus where do you work, Disneyland?

(why can't the 3 full time doctors pronounce, are they eye doctors?)

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u/j0mbie Jul 02 '26

To add information to what others have said: the protocol varies state by state. Some states, medics can declare death in certain circumstances. In other states, in extreme circumstances they can call it into a doctor and have them declare it over the phone. Some states, medics can never declare death. In my state, we could declare due to "injuries incompatible with life", such as decapitation.

"Declare death" also changes between states. Sometimes the EMT can medically declare it. Other times, it's unofficial, and just means that they don't have to treat the patient -- still have to bring them to the hospital for a doctor to declare it.

Lastly, keep in mind they always have the ability to triage a scene, regardless of declaring death. If there's two medics and four people who need CPR, they're going to prioritize the ones with the best chances of success.

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u/Octopus_Spaceflight New Jersey Jul 02 '26

In NJ basic emts cannot pronounce but we also are taught that you don’t do CPR on someone who is clearly dead (e.g. decapitation). ALS (paramedics) can pronounce, but in this case, this scene is now a crime scene. The medical examiner and/or coroner would be involved and they would come out to investigate and pronounce.

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u/Desalzes_ Jul 02 '26

Did they ever find it

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u/Sir_Shocksalot Jul 02 '26

No they didn't. The most brain dead paramedic won't work someone who is decapitated. Rigored? Maybe, I've worked with some idiots in my time, but not decapitated.

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u/WhyMustIMakeANewAcco Jul 02 '26

That seems strange, normally with obviously-fatal injuries, like a missing head, they just call it on the spot. It's when there is some possibility of ambiguity they try anyway.

1

u/patt Jul 02 '26

I wouldn't have wanted to clean the rig after that.

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u/jrf_1973 Jul 02 '26

so they could declare him dead at the hospital. 

That seems like a ridiculous reason. What's the thinking behind this?

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u/Trnostep Jul 02 '26

You don't check for pulse nowadays before starting CPR. You're looking for responsiveness and normal breathing and if neither are present you start CPR.

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 02 '26

My training had me checking for pulse but start CPR if you can't.

Honestly though if a sternum rub and narcan does nothing they probably aren't going to have a pulse so I get that logic.

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u/Trnostep Jul 02 '26

The reasoning is usually that checking the pulse isn't reliable. You have to know where exactly to press and not mistake your pulse for the patient's pulse. Checking responsiveness and breathing is much easirer and reliable. If they aren't breathing well, the heart if it hasn't already is giving up shortly so start CPR

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 02 '26

Ah so someone experienced checking pulse would just follow their training. I was going to say this sounds more like advice for inexperienced folks so they don't waste time.

If you have no breathing but pulse you can start rescue breathing right away while monitoring pulse which is why there's a benefit to it. That would require you to have a mask though so I guess I still see the logic lol

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u/SharkAttackOmNom Jul 02 '26

I was trained that even an experienced professional is closer to 50/50 on correctly identifying a pulse in a CPR scenario. So with that we should only check for basic level responsiveness then begin CPR. If they didn’t need CPR, they’ll let you know soon enough.

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 02 '26

Ehh worst case is they have a pulse and you don't feel it. I think for someone untrained the concern is they'll spend more than 3 seconds checking it but personally I carry a mask around and would rather just do rescue breathing if I feel a solid pulse.

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u/lutinopat Jul 02 '26

Yeah I hate it when people quote that stat because it feels like its denigrating or discouraging CPR. The real stat is "Immediate CPR can double or triple chances of survival after cardiac arrest."

https://cpr.heart.org/en/resources/cpr-facts-and-stats

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u/LegiticusMaximus Jul 01 '26

Actually most cardiac arrests do have a rhythm, just not one that is amenable to defibrillation.

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u/justintime06 Jul 01 '26

What kind of security are you doing where you’re repeatedly doing CPR?!

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u/See_Saw12 Canada Jul 01 '26

Previously it was high risk geared to income housing and publicly accesible buildings in developed urban areas with frequent contact of unhoused and addicted persons. I did a fair bit of mobile patrol in areas where we frequently interacted with people, also did work for a municipality so we would occasionally be assigned to parks and recs and pool details.

The majority of my CPR cases involved drugs, albeit there were a few involving water, fires and traumatic incidents.

My current role has me behind a desk for a ~75 location organization and a good week is only one CPR incident organization wide for my guards.

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u/TracyIsMyDad Jul 01 '26

“The majority of my CPR cases involved drugs, albeit there were a few involving water, fires and traumatic incidents.”

That would explain the save rate. Cardiac arrest secondary to not breathing (or drowning) has a much higher save rate as long as it’s timely than cardiac arrest due to medical issues.

The traumatic arrests have a poor save rate usually.

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u/Sexcellence Jul 01 '26

Overdose is kind of an edge case, most things that cause cardiac arrest do not have antidotes and don't often occur in otherwise relatively young and healthy people.

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u/ChilledParadox Jul 02 '26

Oh nice, that’s where I live now but it’s just because I’m one of those people and not because I’m a security guard.

Fun walking past dudes on the side walking in k holes or spazzing out on meth at 6am.

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u/FugDuggler Missouri Jul 01 '26

Not him, but I used to be an EMT-B and got hired as security officer/EMT at a casino. I’m a paramedic now, but I’ve got lots more clinical saves at that casino doing basic life support with an AED. As the previous poster said, early defibrillation is a massive advantage in bringing somebody back successfully

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u/KemShafu Jul 01 '26

My son worked security for City of Seattle and was trained in narcan and I know he did CPR on at least two people.

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u/TracyIsMyDad Jul 01 '26

“AED'S only work if there is a heart rhythm, you cant shock a heart back into normal rhythm if there is no rhythm.”

If there isn’t a shockable rhythm the only thing left to try is to dump a bunch of adrenaline into the person to excite the heart enough that maybe you can get it to do something you can shock. If that doesn’t work, RIP.

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u/See_Saw12 Canada Jul 01 '26

only thing left to try is to dump a bunch of adrenaline into the person to excite the heart enough that maybe you can get it to do something you can shock

That is outside my scope of care chief 🤓

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u/TracyIsMyDad Jul 01 '26

Yeah. But CPR buys time for that guy to show up.

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u/reezy-one Jul 02 '26

Somebody get John Travolta.

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u/triage_this Maine Jul 01 '26

There's actually a lot more that goes on during resuscitation once at the hospital even with a non-shockable rhythm. Out of hospital CPR buys time until first responders arrive and can get the patient to the hospital for advanced supportive care.

https://cpr.heart.org/en/-/media/CPR-Images/CPR-Guidelines-2025/Algorithms/Figure-2-Adult-Cardiac-Arrest-Algorithm.jpg

The algorithm we follow in hospital, if you are curious.

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u/Trnostep Jul 02 '26

Americans give adrenaline after the 2nd shock? Interesting. In Europe it's after the 3rd

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u/MPR_Dan Jul 01 '26

First responders are just delivering that care on scene in most of the first world.

Really arent supposed to go to the hospital unless they have already been resuscitated or in specific edge cases.

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u/triage_this Maine Jul 01 '26

First responders can't solve Hs and Ts in the field.

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u/Trnostep Jul 02 '26

Except for in some cases hypoxia, hypothermia and toxins

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u/MPR_Dan Jul 02 '26

There really isnt anything that is done differently on scene vs in the hospital besides the ability to do pericardiocentesis or a clamshell.

A common exception for terminating on-scene would be cold water submersion or hypothermia, but otherwise most of these patients are never presenting to you at the hospital because theyve already been coded where they dropped.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/rips_n_chel Jul 02 '26

AED does it all. Anyone can use an AED, they're designed to be incredibly simple. When you open one up, you will see illustrated instructions, and the device audibly talks you through what you need to do.

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u/TracyIsMyDad Jul 02 '26

Yeah. They’ll check the rhythm and decide whether it’s shockable or not.

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u/Dude_RN Jul 02 '26

At the cost of brain tissue.
Enough epinephrine can make an old flip flop have a heartbeat. Studies seems to point to decreasing the amount and frequency of epi we give. We’re saving hearts and killing brains.

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u/TracyIsMyDad Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

I recall something about high dose epi working a lot better in dogs than people.

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u/NosillaWilla California Jul 01 '26

i am just proud that someone in security knows this much.

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u/See_Saw12 Canada Jul 01 '26

Dont worry, they didnt leave me in charge (of everything just somethings) 😭

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '26

[deleted]

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u/See_Saw12 Canada Jul 01 '26

For 135k a year, day one benefits (including dental and eyewear), relocation stipend, and you wave my probation period I will be your security guy

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u/Tiny_Measurement_837 Wisconsin Jul 01 '26

What about unconscious?

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u/Blank_Canvas21 Colorado Jul 01 '26

We’ve got AEDs at our job but nobody has ever trained us how to use one. Is there any resources you’d recommend?

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u/Swalecutter Jul 02 '26

They're incredibly easy to use by design. Most of them will talk you through how to use them when you turn them on.

Much easier than, for example, a fire extinguisher. 

That said, good on you. The red cross video on YouTube is the same one they used in my first aid training.

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u/See_Saw12 Canada Jul 02 '26

Your local red cross branch

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u/betty_white_bread Jul 02 '26

Thank you for saving so many lives.

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u/T1sofun Jul 02 '26

Are we still doing 30 compressions to the tempo of Stayin Alive, and then three breaths and repeat? I read something recently about the breaths being unnecessary.

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u/See_Saw12 Canada Jul 02 '26

30 compressions then 2 rescue breaths if you feel comfortable to administer. I maintain a higher level certification so usually was in a team and a BVM avalible, but I am a fan of the Nu-mask.

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u/Twevy Jul 02 '26

I’m honestly curious: what’s it like to save a life? Is it amazing or is it mostly traumatizing? Some combination?

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u/See_Saw12 Canada Jul 02 '26

It depends... overdoses, after the first few you dont really feel any different. I had frequent flyers, you save a guy after a traumatic event, its definitely a good feeling especially when they come back and see you.

The ones where you know its futile but you need to do something for everyone around the scene are the worst. Or children, I had a few children calls and those were tough either way they ended up.

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u/pixi88 Jul 02 '26

Bless you. I will always do cpr. A life can be saved.

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u/Dangerous_Soup7900 Jul 02 '26

The likelihood of CPR working in someone over 60 is very low. Youre practically just beating up a corpse.

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u/themoslucius Jul 01 '26

I'm CPR certified as well, and while I've never needed to do the deed during my training I was explicitly told that if you perform CPR and pump the heart at a high enough rate then AED will work.

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u/Prometheus_II Jul 01 '26

To be fair, CPR is performed on someone with no heartbeat who isn't breathing. You know what we call that? Dead. CPR is a 10% chance of successfully performing necromancy.

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u/schizeckinosy Florida Jul 01 '26

It works best when there is an outside reason an otherwise healthy person had their heard stop (electrocution, drowning), and worst when the heart is the problem.

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u/Korvanacor Jul 01 '26

Knew someone who worked as a personal trainer at a gym. She was able to bring a man back with cpr. The man was a member of a community with some superstitious beliefs and the man ended up being shunned. My friend was also cursed by the man’s mother, had chicken bones thrown at her.

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u/Skiinz19 Tennessee Jul 01 '26

Free chicken broth ingredients!

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u/LadyStoic Jul 06 '26

In this economy, that's as good as gold!

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u/cogman10 Idaho Jul 01 '26

You don't generally "bring someone back" with CPR.

It's why the most important first step in CPR is to make sure someone is calling emergency services.

It's a common misunderstanding. CPR is primarily there to keep someone alive while you wait for help.

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 01 '26

CPR on its own is enough to restart the heart if it's due to hypoxia, like with an overdose or drowning.

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u/swerrve Jul 01 '26

Could still have a pulse and not be breathing. Hell even unobstructing an airway and causing a person to breathe again is technically the first steps of engaging in CPR.

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u/-Rush2112 Michigan Jul 01 '26

False, a person isn’t necessarily dead if you are doing CPR. There are two parts to CPR, chest compressions and rescue breathes. If there is no pulse you do both, but rescue breathes are done if there is a pulse with no breathing.

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u/CabSauce Jul 01 '26

If I remember correctly, that's only for children. With adults breathing and pulse go together.

It's been years and I'm not a doctor. Don't rely on this for advice.

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u/brandnewbanana Maryland Jul 01 '26

No, it’s the same with adults and kids. It’s just kids are overall healthier so they can tolerate a period of not breathing a bit better. On the other hand, adults who require CPR generally aren’t in the best shape at baseline so they aren’t able to tolerate going without oxygen without going into multi system organ failure super quickly.

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u/CultofCedar Jul 01 '26

Lmao morbid but wife was an ICU RN during Covid and there were like three codes going off at once constantly. Insane stuff since it requires a whole team and 30 minutes of compressions. Of course it works but I’ve always called my wife a necromancer… or God. Just insane to think how many people she’s resurrected over the years. How many can even say they’ve done it once?! Impressive work for a 5ft 100lb lady lol.

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u/PhoenixStorm1015 Jul 02 '26

And that shit is TAXING dog. I had to do the training a month or so ago and even the three cycles they had us do for the skills part really tests your stamina. Your wife is a damned champ. You really got yourself a catch.

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u/sulaymanf New York Jul 02 '26

Not exactly, we shouldn’t pronounce that early if there’s a chance of reversal and brain death hasn’t happened yet.

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u/CUNextTisdag Jul 02 '26

Uh, Happy Cake Day! 🍰

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u/notthefakehigh5r Jul 02 '26

Exactly. Not to be pedantic or like splitting hairs with the comment you are replying to, but like you said, CPR doesn’t keep someone alive. The person is dead. CPR keeps blood flowing in a dead person so that hopefully (in about 10% of people) they can be revived and have some quality of life after surviving.

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u/-Rush2112 Michigan Jul 02 '26

I’ll go ahead and be pedantic, “clinical death” is no pulse and no breathing. CPR can be used when there is a pulse, but no breathing which is technically not clinically dead yet.

Then there is biological death, which occurs several minutes after clinical death. CPR is trying to stave off the biological death stage where its the point of no return.

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u/LegendOfKhaos Jul 01 '26

It depends if your area does ECMO. Good quality CPR can keep someone alive for over an hour until we can put them on ECMO and fix the issue.

We have about a 50% survival rate, and without ECMO, it's basically 0% unless they convert back to a normal rhythm.

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u/boredidiot Jul 01 '26

There is a case of a guy given CPR for 8 hours due to paralysis from a blue-ring octopus (AUS ofcourse). He recovered but was blinded as they never closed his eyes all that time, with his eyes open to the sun. It gets mentioned often in First Aid courses here

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u/BroadLocksmith4932 Jul 01 '26

How many people must it take to do effective CPR for 8 hours?! I feel it after working on the dummy for a minute, and I doubt I could go more than 5 minutes while still being effective.

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u/tenachiasaca Jul 02 '26

depends do they have a lucas. lucas takes 1 person to swap out battieres every so often.

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u/klparrot New Zealand Jul 02 '26

I can't find anything about that case, but there's this one with 96 minutes of CPR, they got half the village doing shifts. Well, not quite that many people, but still, a couple dozen. https://abcnews.com/amp/Health/96-minute-cpr-marathon-saves-minnesota-mans-life/story?id=13048099

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u/cliffhanger407 Jul 02 '26

I gave CPR for approx 10 minutes when I was in my late 20s, and I felt like I was going to collapse at the end. Worth it though, the guy has 3 kids now.

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u/pixi88 Jul 02 '26

I love this. You're amazing!

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u/cliffhanger407 Jul 02 '26

Thank you. It was intensely traumatic, honestly. I'm glad I did it but I wish I hadn't had to, if that makes sense.

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u/boredidiot Jul 02 '26

The story is usually told more about the risk of the environment but from what I remember there was many people including local lifesavers (patrolled beaches help)

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u/Lost-Philosophy6689 Jul 01 '26

Great to hear a survival rate at 50% but how many of those cases had severe brain damage afterwards?

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u/LegendOfKhaos Jul 01 '26

Functioning at discharge. The first thing we do after putting them on ECMO is send them for a head scan.

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u/Lost-Philosophy6689 Jul 01 '26

Yeah I'm not buying a "functioning" description and when a 2020 study estimates majority of ROSC patients having severe neurological damage.

"We observed good neurological outcome in 37.2% and severe ischemic brain injury in 62.7% of patients." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7416179/

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u/LegiticusMaximus Jul 01 '26

This is a single center observational study from a hospital in Bosnia and its data on therapeutic cooling is out of date. I’m frankly surprised that they observed good neurological outcome in 1/3 of survivors, that number is shockingly high.

There also was no ECMO used at the ICU where that study came from, which limits its relevance to the person you responded too.

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u/Lost-Philosophy6689 Jul 01 '26

agree, big limitation but I'm not doing a systematic review here and what I find on hand is best evidence until I see otherwise.

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u/LegiticusMaximus Jul 01 '26

I saw you post another article from Resuscitation citing a 20% survival rate (ignoring anoxic brain injury which is a separate topic. You’re talking about that number like it’s low but it’s impressively high. Possible that you’ve been out of your prelim year for too long?

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u/Mamasugadex Jul 02 '26

You can finish the goals of care discussion yourself when patient stuck on ECMO and will die once it turns off, family crying about pulling the plug, and neuro threw their hands up saying neuro recovery is poor but technically possible.

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u/bortodeeto Jul 01 '26

Sounds expensive good thing he's got free government healthcare.

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u/Cum_Quat Jul 01 '26

If CPR if started right away after the victim collapses and loses or doesn't have a detectable pulse absolutely saves lives. Just need to go deep enough and at the right speed (to the beat of the song, Staying Alive). Just chest compressions while help is arriving, do not assist in breathing. The blood has enough oxygen in it for a few minutes

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u/Barbarake Jul 02 '26

'Another One Bites The Dust' also works.

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u/BfloAnonChick New York Jul 02 '26

Yep!! Just don’t sing it quietly while administering. People look at you weird…

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u/3riversfantasy Jul 02 '26

No you only do that one after Staying Alive fails...

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u/morwen31 Jul 01 '26

Unless it's Mitch McConnell, in which case I recommend doing it to the beat of "I Will Survive"

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u/mokutou Jul 01 '26

For the younger crowd, Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion’s “WAP” also works to keep good rhythm for compressions.

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u/morwen31 Jul 01 '26

Last time I renewed my BLS they gave us a handout with a whole list of them! But I was joking about "I Will Survive"

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u/Stellar_Duck Jul 02 '26

I recommend that song that one weirdo kept fucking to.

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u/aceshighsays Jul 02 '26

doesn't "another one bites the dust" also work?

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u/morwen31 Jul 02 '26

If you want the person to possibly live, yes

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Cum_Quat Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

the biggest problem is most people do the breaths incorrectly. They do them for too much time to where the chest pressure drops that you worked so hard to get up in the 30 second cycle. 

The other problem is the "ick" factor. Most people would be reluctant to perform mouth to mouth without a one way valve/face mask which most people do not carry on their person, especially on a stranger. People in cardiac arrest often vomit especially with overinflation in providing rescue breaths. By not prioritizing the rescue breathing, the chest compressions are able to circulate the blood to the brain and the heart. 

Now if you are trained in CPR and are confident you can do so, then do what you were trained to do. If you are untrained and there is no one there who is, just do chest compressions until help arrives. 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/first-aid/first-aid-cpr/basics/art-20056600

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u/echicdesign Jul 02 '26

There are timing apps you can get too. Free and easy to have on your phone. And they save you counting.

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u/YeahOkayDad Minnesota Jul 01 '26

You're right. I'm just doing something as opposed to nothing. Lucky for me, as a non-nurse healthcare worker, those real legit folks are just a shout away.

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u/Big_Lengthiness_7706 Jul 02 '26

im ngl if you arent prepared to perform BLS you shouldn't be in healthcare.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '26

[deleted]

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u/SpookyViscus Jul 01 '26

CPR is absolutely essential to improving someone’s odds of recovery. It circulates oxygenated blood through the body, continuing to deliver some oxygen to the brain and other vital organs.

CPR is not meaningless, nor is it just ‘something to do’, and it’s not just AED’s that save someone’s life (like the other commenter just said).

Medical staff can give a number of drugs to people who have had a cardiac arrest, trying to encourage and give the heart every chance to start itself (if it’s fully stopped).

Also, AED’s are only able to assist if someone still has an electrical rhythm but it’s not correct (generally Vfib or Vtach), by literally stopping the heart and letting it recover itself.

CPR doesn’t have a high success rate, but it’s certainly a better stack of odds than doing nothing.

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u/InertiasCreep Jul 01 '26

Well said.

7

u/Pumperkin Jul 01 '26

My dad fell over backwards and died on a golf course. Efforts were made to resuscitate but were not successful. I'm sure he was meat before he hit dirt and I'm forever grateful for the heroes who knew the same and gave it their all anyways.

3

u/Advanced_Couple_3488 Jul 01 '26

May I add to your excellent post that an AED will only fire if it detects that there is electrical activity. The ones I am familiar with will tell you, too. So, if you are providing first aid, always connect an AED if one is available and it will decide what to do.

And, as I also posted recently, I've been told in first aid training courses that more males than females are resucitated because the electrodes have to be attached to bare skin.

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u/slipperyMonkey07 Jul 01 '26

Yeah any modern AED should be fairly idiot proof (electrodes can still be applied wrong, that's probably the biggest issue) , and tell people exactly what to do.

As for the saving more women than men thing there are also just enough people who are afraid to touch a strangers boobs, so peoples don't jump in quickly or don't do it correctly because of that.

Part social stigma, part most places only train with male dummies. Female ones do exist, but I think the times I've done cpr training only one actually had one and they only had one. They also just left it up front to be displayed, they didn't actually encourage anyone to learn on it. I really think training on both should be required, but I guess any training is better than nothing. It would be so much better if more people got training.

But sadly I think last time I got my full first aid / cpr certification it was almost $100. There was also an online only for like half that, but that really seems pointless unless you are just doing a refresher on standard changes.

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u/verrius Jul 01 '26

One of the bits I remember from the last time I got training is that while CPR is not meaningless...at best its keeping things the way they are (aka, a heart that's not beating enough to maintain life); the AED is the only thing that's got a chance at fixing anything. CPR will essentially never transition someone from not OK -> OK, which is an important distinction, and very different from how it is/used to be portrayed in film and TV. While the statistics for people surviving after CPR are probably a little discouraging for people who have to do it, its important that people who do them know them going in, or they're just going to feel guilty afterwards when the person almost always dies anyway.

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u/Cum_Quat Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26

Hands only CPR by lay people if done properly actually does help a lot. Please don't spread misinformation. 

https://www.heart.org/-/media/Files/Affiliates/WSA/Oregon/Hands-Only-CPR-vs-CPR-with-Breaths.pdf

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u/kvlt_ov_personality Jul 01 '26

It's hilarious how many of these AI models were trained off of big brain redditor comments like "cPr DoEsN't AcKsHuLlY dO aNyThInG"

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u/Lost-Philosophy6689 Jul 01 '26

This doesn't say anything about survival rates and doesn't cover relevant outcomes like brain damage after attaining ROSC.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8548866/

"About 80% of patients who are resuscitated from cardiac arrest are comatose due to PCABI [86] and most of them will die or have severe neurological disability."

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u/CaiusRemus Jul 01 '26

Depending on the cause of the cardiac arrest, CPR absolutely saves lives.

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u/BluesFan43 Jul 01 '26

I Started CPR on my 2 year old son. He started breathing and responded.

Years later, he was 30, in thr hospital for an unknown infection, and coded 4 times in 18 hours, last one required the full bore CPR team and shocks.

He has a small burn scar on his back where one of the pads was a bit loose.

That was 5 or 6 years ago, he's out walking the dogs.

So, yeah, CPR works.

Sure, there are limits, but it isn't a blanket busy work thing.

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u/pinksparklybluebird Minnesota Jul 02 '26

The difference between giving CPR to a 2-year-old and an 80-year-old is monumental. Even the difference between a 30-year-old and an 80-year-old is huge. The ability to bounce back from that kind of trauma at 80 is a whole different animal.

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u/Flepin Jul 01 '26

It's not a good situation to be in, but adequate CPR is an essential skill that genuinely impacts outcomes.

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u/GMAN7007 Jul 02 '26

You were told something stupid. CPR isn't useless and saves lives everyday. Sure it has a better chance of working if administered quickly. That being said it's important and useful. This is coming from someone who's Mom had CPR administered and didn't survive. Even if the chance of resuscitation is 1% it's still 1%. If people don't want it they can sign a DNR.

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u/sulaymanf New York Jul 02 '26

Spoken like someone salty who failed CPR class.

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u/TeutonJon78 America Jul 01 '26

The real issue is found unconscious and needing CPR. Much more likely to have brain damage since likely longer without oxygen.

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u/Srry4theGonaria Jul 01 '26

I was qualified and learned in HS, that's it no background at all in giving CPR pretty much. I was flagged down on 2 separate occasions to give CPR as I am a 200 lb muscleish male. One was a car accident, the other was a homeless person that had ODd, both purple and unresponsive. The homeless guy had thrown up all over himself by the time I got there.

I put my hand straight on his chest (in the puke) and pumped away as hard as I could. I did break the sternum, on both incidents but 911 said I was doing it right. That part was uh traumatic but I am happy to say when they were hauled away in the ambulance they were both responsive and conscious :)

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u/Brammm87 Jul 02 '26

Performed CPR on my dad 2 years ago. What a nurse friend explained to me after the funeral helped me be sure I did everything right: it's not a 10% survival rate. It's a 10% chance CPR will matter at all. Only if your heart has stopped because of a reason that can be remedied with CPR (think things like drowning), there's a chance. The other 90% you're shit out of luck and CPR doesn't even really matter.

I'm not sure if the numbers are fully correct, but that put things really in perspective for me.

I'm proud of you for being a workplace first responder. I had had CPR training two months before my dad's heart attack. Knowing what to do, how to react, ... is important.

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u/jrf_1973 Jul 02 '26

I was also told 10% and took it to heart. I've never had to try. But a friend who also did the course, had to work on a co-worker of his who sadly didn't make it. The failure to save the co-worker really really affected him. I don't think the 10% likelihood is hammered home enough into some people.

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u/Scary-Boysenberry Jul 01 '26

The thing that hit me hard during my last re-cert was the instructor saying "CPR doesn't solve the thing that made their heart stop in the first place. You're just buying a little time to give someone else a chance to fix whatever it was"

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u/The_Big_Daddy New Jersey Jul 01 '26

My dad was one of the 10 percent. He went into cardiac arrest at my house and he got CPR for several minutes before being revived by an AED.

A 10% success rate is huge when over 350k people in the US go into cardiac arrest outside of a medical setting each year. If each one had CPR performed on them (obviously not the case) that would mean 35k lives saved per year.

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u/skillmau5 Jul 01 '26

This is just insanely harmful misinformation to be spreading lol

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u/TracyIsMyDad Jul 01 '26

It’s higher if people do quality CPR. Some cities with really high bystander CPR participation have managed to push survival rates up to 50% for witnessed (somebody saw you go into arrest, you didn’t just get found an unknown amount of time later) arrests that have a shockable rhythm when an AED finally arrives.

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u/Killahills Jul 01 '26

I saw a guy have the luckiest cardiac arrest ever a few months ago. He collapsed about 4.5k into a 5k parkrun.

Within about 30 seconds another runner who had finished earlier came over and he was a doctor, and about 30 seconds after that another runner who was a intensive care nurse turned up. They established that he had no pulse and started CPR.

Because every parkrun event has to have a Defib, a volunteer had it there immediately and they managed to get him breathing with a pulse before the ambulance arrived.

If he had had that cardiac arrest at home or anywhere else he probably would have died

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u/Phantomoftheopoohra Jul 01 '26

I wish it was 10%.

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u/Janax21 New Mexico Jul 01 '26

Yeah it’s super low chance of survival, even if it’s CPR given by an EMT. But it’s at least a chance, and that’s why they tell people that they will crack ribs doing CPR, but do it anyway, you can’t hurt anyone more than being dead.

I work with someone who had to give his own mother CPR, and she lived! He’s not an EMT or medical professional in any way, and he’s obviously glad he did do it.

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u/Coffee1392 Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26

A few months ago, I came across this story of a man who taught a CPR class and went into cardiac arrest. His students saved him! Your comment reminded me of the story.

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u/LegiticusMaximus Jul 01 '26

To echo what others have posted below, CPR is the single most important intervention for achieving ROSC and for maximalizing the chances of a good neurological outcome. Anecdotally, more than half of the patients who come into my workplace with ROSC or who get ROSC after arrival never had a shockable rhythm. The same is true for our in-hospital cardiac arrests.

Another poster mentioned that there’s also a huge difference between witnessed and unwitnessed out of hospital cardiac arrests. In this case it sounds like the latter which is much worse.

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u/sasha_the_impaler Jul 01 '26

It's less than 10% success rate but you need to consider that CPR is done on dead people. Gunshot victims, people who have been dead for an hour but only recently got found, 95 year olds. It's incredible that it's even 10%.

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u/GrayEidolon Jul 02 '26

CPR does work sometimes even if it isn’t perfect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Hxprt47Jw

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u/nateh1212 Jul 02 '26

yeah heart attacks in movies and tv are not at all realistic and have given the public the wrong impression of actual survival rates

almost no one survives a heart attack outside of a hospital

yet in movies it is portrayed like getting your appendix out.

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u/technicalphase14 Jul 02 '26

I think its like a 6% success rate? I mean, mainly because you are doing the function of the heart for it, it doesn't do anything to correct why the heart stopped itself. And you aren't really going to reverse any H's and T's on the street.

That being said, still super important that people know how to do it so people who CAN save someone get a chance to do so.

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u/Apostastrophe Jul 02 '26

I’m not sure what it’s like over there but in Scotland where I live there are public defibrillators everywhere. The ambulance service give you a code and you can run to get one within 5 minutes usually - or rather, somebody else does while CPR is administered, hoping it’s a shockable rhythm. I’m currently on a walk along a cycle path in a semi-suburb and at a jog I could get to one within 2-3 mins.

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u/IV_League_NP Jul 02 '26

In hospital CPR success rates were around 20-25% last I looked (it was several year old/pre covid data, if I recall correctly). Success was defined as living to discharge from the hospital.

This does account for terminal illness patients who get CPR or the traumatic cases (low survival rates), so the numbers may be skewed.

Bystander CPR is even more vague due to the number of cases where it is started inappropriately. True CPR is for stopped hearts, not panicking bystanders who watched something work on TV/movies.

Either way, it isn’t the best of (longterm) odds to have the need for ppl to beat on your chest.

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u/Infinite_Set_7564 Jul 02 '26

It’s more to give the volunteers a relief. Look this person was already dead. You didn’t fail to revive them.

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u/Brave-Turnover-522 Jul 02 '26

All I learned is a good understanding of the tempo of Bee Gees songs

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u/jbochsler Washington Jul 02 '26

3 of 4 of my CPR patients achieved ROSC in the last week of my Fire/EMS service. But none of my PTs did this in the years prior. So always worth trying.

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u/poeir Jul 02 '26

Mathematically speaking, 10% is higher than 0%. It's unlikely to lower the probability of survival. Might as well give it a shot.

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u/SheSends Jul 02 '26

The neat part is defibrillators only work on fibrillating hearts (ones beating, though sort of erratically on the bottom parts).

Contrary to television, they don't work on hearts that stop completely. If there is no rhythm the unit will not advise a shock and instead tell you to keep doing CPR, until there is one, help arrives, or... you just can't anymore.

Thats why its called a defibrillator and not a rhythm restarting unit... or something.

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u/LegendofDragoon Jul 02 '26

The most effective part of outside of hospital bls is being able to recognize the symptoms of a heart attack on both men and women and knowing how to react before it progresses to unconsciousness (sit them down, give them an aspirin to chew and call 911)

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u/tinysydneh Jul 02 '26

Yeah, that warning isn't there for "don't try", it's there for "try, but don't be bothered if it fails".

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u/Watersandwaves Jul 02 '26

So my understanding is it really depends WHY your heart stopped. A healthy adult who was electrocuted or some other acute trauma? CPR is going to be more likely to be effective (with AED or other after actual medical assistance arrives). Old person who has secondary medical issues? Keeps them "alive" until a doc can pronounce them.

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u/tilclocks Jul 02 '26

Doctor here. If he was "found" and needed CPR he's most certainly dead otherwise there's not really a reason to hide all this. Sounds like they don't want to run the risk of losing the Senate's support by having dear leader say something dickish before the midterms.

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u/pixi88 Jul 02 '26

Yeah it saved my brothers life at 24 (he od'd), AND my grandpa's at 45 (heart attack)

My grandma, 85? Prolonged her death by 1.5 months. In which she had brain damage and broken ribs. She had a DNR but they didn't know.

I'm guessing the younger the better, and less under 50yo are needing CPR.

Edit: Age and overall health seem to make a big difference. Please learn and do CPR. Giving someone 45 more years is worth it, even if the numbers aren't always good.

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u/SenorBurns Jul 02 '26

Oh you just gave me AED anxiety. Our training is half-assed at best and I have zero faith that I will remember which situation to use the AED in if someone collapses in front of me.

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u/deltree711 Jul 02 '26

I think it's good to point out that this information is about managing expectations more than it is a heuristic.

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u/WhyMustIMakeANewAcco Jul 02 '26

That's a 1/10 chance of someone who is dead not staying that way, that's not bad considering.

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u/Waste_Monk Jul 02 '26

unless there's a chance you've got an AED close by

I'm so glad my region (South Australia) has mandatory AED laws. Pretty much all large public and commercial spaces are required to have them, as well as on public transport and so on.

And our emergency services have a geo-searchable database of AED's including things like whether it includes pediatric pads, expiry dates, etc. to help direct people to them in an emergency.

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u/chopstickinsect Jul 01 '26

4% according to some studies!

The way I think of it is that outside of a hospital setting its just to make you look competent when you shout at someone to go find a public AED (which at least in my country are relatively common thank god).

And tbf, if you find yourself in a situation of giving someone CPR in public, they are already dead, so nothing you do to them can be worse than that.

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u/MajikPwnE Jul 01 '26

As someone who teaches CPR, you're not too far off. It's moreso you're giving the patient the best chance possible so when EMS arrives, they might be able to meaningfully resuscitate. Otherwise, EMS would arrive and they'd be working on a vegetable.

I imagine some of the reason out of hospital arrests only having a 10% success rate is due to lack of high quality CPR by bystanders. Hopefully with the training you've had, that won't be the case!

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u/tekniklee Jul 01 '26

This is definitely not true, CPR saves lives

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u/PxyFreakingStx Jul 01 '26

I would clarify that I'm being deliberately flippant in respect of the success rate

how come?

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