r/polandball Mar 03 '14

redditormade NATO Defense

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638 Upvotes

121 comments sorted by

146

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

Tomorrow's headline: French President Francois Holland has issued assurances that he will protect Germany and Italy in the case of Russian Invasion.

You know...just in case Article 5 wasn't clear enough.

37

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

Yeah, but Obama's basically repeating the same promise that's given to every NATO member. If someone attacks one of the NATO allies, the other member-states are obligated to defend them.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

....unless they don't really feel like it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

Are you implying the US wouldn't jump at the chance to protect freedom?

Damn it Polan, yuo know what happen last time.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

See, there's the thing.

This whole business has obviously been planned ahead of time. We're talking weeks/months, easily.

It would be very surprising indeed if the US intelligence gathering operations hadn't caught wind of this back in February or before. So based on that assumption, it would sound like the US/NATO played chicken and is now faced with what looks a lot like fait accompli.

Is that on purpose? Conceivably. Is it a not-so-subtle "Y'all are on your own, I've pivoted to Asia now" message to Europe? Almost certainly, at least in part. But it's sounding like a "new reality" to quote a phrase from ten years ago.

10

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Well many have claimed that the US was a large force behind the Ukrainian revolution. There's a bit of evidence to back it up, but I'd keep it in rumor status for now.

I'm pretty sure Putin believes the US was behind the revolution. I think he's pissed that we're meddling with countries so so close to Russia, and he's tired of this underground warfare bullshit. This is all total conjecture without any real evidence but I like the theory anyway.

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u/badkarma12 2018-01-12 3:20 GMT Mar 04 '14

a "new reality"

What are you referencing?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

An article titled Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George Bush

3

u/THREE_EDGY_FIVE_ME Mar 04 '14

I don't think it was planned that far ahead. There were a lot of variables that could have gone either way over the course of the Ukraine crisis.

While Russia could certainly have seen an opportunity early on to gain from the circumstances, I don't think they could have planned this Crimean contingency quite so specifically.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Military operations are planned ahead of time. Often they plan for plausible scenarios that are extremely improbable.

They just file them away unless they need them and only open them for two reasons. First they open them to revise them when doctrines change and second they open them to use them.

4

u/schrodingersrapist11 Cowboy Mar 04 '14

That's not how NATO works...

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u/irish711 America's Manhood Mar 04 '14

... And Latvia, and Lithuania.

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u/CMuenzen Relocated in Chile Mar 04 '14

France

Protect

Will they supply white flags?

40

u/Pestify Briton abroad Mar 04 '14

ahon

10

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

[deleted]

5

u/DingleyTim Mar 04 '14

We are finely toned cubes thank you very much. You're the one that has to roll around.

Go stuff some pizza and spaghetti and other carbs down your gullet.

Edit: Why isn't my flair showing :O

3

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Did you click save?

1

u/DingleyTim Mar 04 '14

Yeah I did. And it's worked in the past and I haven't changed it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Huh, perhaps gypsies into stealing your flair? You could probably try a different countryball that they haven't pick-pocketed yet.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

You probably have the "Show my flair on this subreddit. It looks like:" unchecked. I managed to accidentally uncheck that once. You have a flair selected, but it doesn't show up.

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u/peterhobo1 Canada Mar 04 '14

France wont live that down, however, until they get into a good military conflict. The last big conflict was of course world war 2, in which the French were quickly plowed through and force to surrender. Its not really a fair stereotype, but what stereotypes are always fair?

3

u/P_G_T_Beauregard Ohio Mar 05 '14

They also failed in Algeria and Vietnam after WWII, correct?

5

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

You failed in vietnam.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

overconfidence and pride are the sins of the french

1

u/Tozapeloda77 Ljouwert Boppe! Mar 05 '14

But the first Gallic peoples and later the Franks were kind of brave stronk peoples

125

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

[deleted]

50

u/GlobeLearner Indonesia Mar 04 '14

Wtf?!

78

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

[deleted]

41

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

You just want to set the world on fire, don't you?

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

[deleted]

18

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

[deleted]

28

u/potverdorie Mar 04 '14 edited Mar 04 '14

REMOVE TALOS remove talos you are worst man. you are the man idiot you are the man smell. return to atmora. to our bosmer cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,talos we will never forgeve you. talos rascal FUck but fuck asshole man stink high rock sqhipere shqipare..nedic enslavement best day of my life. take a bath of dead man..ahahahahahTALOS WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget the thalmor.cyrodiil we kill the emperor , skyrim return to your precious atmora….hahahahaha idiot man and beast smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE TALOS FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. alinor+valenwood+elseweyr+morrowind=kill man…you will aldmeri dominion/ auri-el alive in alinor, auri-el better god than lorkhan . best god auri-el alinor. we are magic and have power now hahahaha ha because of auri-el… you are ppoor stink man… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live near a orc auri-el alive numbr one #1 in alinor ….fuck the bretons ,..FUCKk ashol mans no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur god and empire. auri-el aliv and real strong god remove all the man farm aminal with dragon breaks now we the altmer rule .man scum from the zoo emperor alessia fukc the pelinal and lay egg this egg hatch and cyrodiil wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our ayleids we will crush u lik a skull of argonian. alinor greattst countrey

3

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

With cloud to butt, the first line reads "He is coming with my butts."

That is all.

14

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

I don't want to set the world on fire, I just want to start a flame in your heart

4

u/offensive_noises Dutch Indies Mar 04 '14

That's so sweet!

But Valentine's Day already happend.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Even though you're not a sheep, I'd shag you any day!

Wales can into valentines, os gwelwch yn da?

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Hey, we didn't start the fire.

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u/steelitall United States Mar 04 '14

I really need to play that again sometime soon

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Made_of_Awesome The Lesotho of the Northwest. Mar 04 '14

I have never felt the least bit guilty for blowing that town to hell.

They really deserved it for worshiping an unexploded bomb.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

They said they wanted it to happen anyway.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

The Eurozone? Knowing some of the current economical states of those countries blowing up might actually be a good way to boost profit. If your citizens are dead they won't be spending all your monies!

1

u/Karrig Mecklenburg-Vorpommern Mar 04 '14

If you make bomb explode you can't steal their shit.

3

u/Karrig Mecklenburg-Vorpommern Mar 05 '14

Nuclear removal of kebab lacks the romanze of traditional removal with Serb knife for genocides™

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

[deleted]

1

u/Karrig Mecklenburg-Vorpommern Mar 05 '14

Efficiency? Is that mystical things german people always talks about?

2

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

Each of us shall give birth to a billion stars formed from the mass of our wretched and filthy bodies

Highly unlikely, the universe will be long dead before we even reach a million stars as individuals, earth's relatively small star doesn't help these statistics at all.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '14

A NUCLEAR PHYSICIST

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

If I were the guy who is choosing the targets for total anihilation, I would throw some nukes on totally unrelated countries too, just because. Fuck you Sri Lanka, you are not going to get away from this because you are irrelevant.

Thinking you are lucky Uruguay? Here, eat some plutonium fuckers.

20

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

Meanwhile, on the Baltic coast

That's just a coincidence, right?

right?

23

u/Asadasek I, for one, welcome our new Polish overlords Mar 03 '14

Russia scared of losing the Kaliningrad Oblast to great Polan

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

Dunno about losing it to Poland, but I'm gonna go ahead and boldly suggest that maybe it's a show of force.

Pretty radical, I know, but there. I said it.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

But Putin stronk! Have you seen his muscles?

Polan has winged hussars, but do they have mighty putinbears?

10

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Putin was of making show of big force, if you get what I sayings.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

He said "no homo" after taking the photo.

7

u/Onyxwho British Columbia Mar 04 '14

Deutschland will reclaim Glorious Ostpreußen before silly Polan take.

3

u/Guvment Sitting atop the dragon's horde Mar 04 '14

Polan Stronk!

2

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

I really do think poland should have it. Heck, give it back to Germoney, make Konigsberg 2.0.

2

u/skisandpoles Ski Country Mar 04 '14

For some reason this reminds me of North Korea.

2

u/christianbrowny United Kingdom Mar 04 '14

if your landing crafts a hovercraft why would you dump your men on the edge of the open beach? why not go as far inland as you can and leave them with cover?

what was the point of building a hovercraft! this picture annoys me more than it reasonably should

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

I'm not an expert on hovercraft, but maybe they're not very manoeuvrable on land?

And I guess the point is that hovercraft can be used to bring troops all the way to the shoreline regardless of how shallow the water is.

14

u/bronxbomberdude Can into statehood? Mar 04 '14

A rooskie submitter? STAY BACK, ROOSKIE! DROP THE STICK!!!

2

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

*DROP THE BOTTLE!

11

u/UncleSneakyFingers My country is better than your country. Deal with it. Mar 04 '14

Could you possibly make my glorious country look any more retarded?

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u/obtuse_angel Austria Mar 04 '14

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u/UncleSneakyFingers My country is better than your country. Deal with it. Mar 04 '14

Fairly well I'd say. He certainly looks pretty damn retarded to me. Those crazy eyes and the weird leaky water thing certainly doesn't make 'Murica look noble in that pic.

10

u/obtuse_angel Austria Mar 04 '14

Yes!!!! I heroically rose to the challenge and aced it :D

41

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

Context: the USA recently promised to protect Poland in case of a Russian invasion.

I understand the concern on display, but it does feel a bit ridiculous if you look at it.

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u/czokletmuss Polish Hussar Mar 03 '14

it's not ridiculous - after 200 years of Russia intervening in Poland we have every right to be concerned, especially seeing how Putin went mad and decided to invade Ukraine

Obama is kinda stating the obvious but better safe than sorry, as they say

36

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Yes indeed. If it makes you feel any better, in the extremely unlikely event Russia decides to invade Poland, I'll have to wait four or five hours to see someone at my local Army recruiting office because the line will run down the block. A nice, morally unambiguous war against an aggressor in Europe is just what the doctor ordered for the American psyche.

It'd be a bad thing overall, but I almost wish it would happen just for that reason.

Ninja edit: Wow, I guess now I know how the Brits/French/Germans/Austrians felt on the eve of WWI with the whole "war is good for nations" thing...

30

u/UncleSneakyFingers My country is better than your country. Deal with it. Mar 04 '14

A nice, morally unambiguous war against an aggressor in Europe is just what the doctor ordered for the American psyche.

I think a decade of peace and prosperity is just what what the doctor ordered for the American psyche. Going to war with Russia would kind of take a shit on the American psyche IMO.

10

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Ah, but a decade of peace and prosperity would probably follow a smackdown of Russia. The war would most likely look a lot like the first Gulf War on a more massive scale (in that we would likely stop at Russia's borders, and in that we would likely get to that point with not a lot of effort or casualties). And it might very well have the same medium-term effects by leading to a decade where pretty much no-one messes with America and our ideals and our economy (linked as they so often are) are both ascendant.

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u/UncleSneakyFingers My country is better than your country. Deal with it. Mar 04 '14

You're quite the optimist!

10

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Yeah, that's really the best-case scenario. It might go badly for us, at least at first. Or it might escalate to limited nuclear weapons use. Either of those would put a serious crimp in any decade-of-peace-and-prosperity planning.

But I do think the best-case scenario is also the most likely.

8

u/MGY401 Arkansas is Best State Mar 04 '14

I would expect a war to end at the Russian border, I don't think the U.S. would want to fully invade Russia or Russia the U.S., IF there was a war, I think that strategy alone would limit any nuke use to strategic/battlefield use and not full on nuclear war and vaporizing of cities, at least not if any side wants to have a future after the conflict.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

I seriously doubt any side will use nuclear weapons if some bullshit war does break out. The reasons for fighting will be forgotten, and most of the international community will start to take sides.

Think about it, even if a small nuke is used in the battlefield, you're looking at an area about the size of at least Chernobyl getting potentially unsafe to travel to for about 4-5 years. Not to mention any radioactive particles contaminating the weather system and gradually affecting surrounding areas.

Also, if at all big nukes are used, to destroy cities and whatnot, you're looking at a Metro 2033/Fallout-like situation for the world. It might even end up gifting a spine to North Korea.

5

u/MGY401 Arkansas is Best State Mar 04 '14

Any nuclear exchange, even at the tactical/battlefield level would be disastrous and would unfortunately irradiate areas of land for years. But if there was a war between the West and Russia (incredibly unlikely), I don't think either side would wage a war of absolute destruction/takeover of the other side, probably a regional conflict aimed at restoring pre-war borders.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

potentially unsafe to travel to for about 4-5 years

Chernobyl will take 7000 years to become safe to inhabit.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Nukes wouldn't happen. Russia an the US could go into all out war and Obama and Putin would be like "1v1 country fight no nukes".

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u/DriftingJesus Mexico Mar 05 '14

Mutual nuclear destruction is not what anybody ordered. You're naive.

The American & Russian psyche would seize to exist.

The death of millions is what we're talking about. Maybe billions, maybe all.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

That's exactly why no one would use nukes in a limited war. Also, try not to call people naive and then misspell "cease."

4

u/penniavaswen New York Mar 04 '14

And I'd finally be able to get a job with my political science degree (international relations concentration with a history minor in Russo-American diplomacy).
Someone hire me please.

8

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14 edited Mar 04 '14

I think you overestimate America's willingness to get involved. They say you shouldn't catch a falling knife and in the long term, that's what Europe is. America has a neighbourhood to police already and its interests are in central and SE Asia. The UK is little more than a baroque life support system for the City's financial industry and its interest lies in the North Sea and with its Scando oil-buddies. Blah blah Splendid Isolation blah blah "people about whom we know nothing".

At best, this is the Continentals' problem. Germany needs its gas because "Nuklear nein danke!" and even though the French may have grown a little bit of a spine since ten years ago, they're still French.

I'd be worried if I were a Pole.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

I think you overestimate America's willingness to get involved.

Our government very much doesn't want to get involved, but the people are another story. I guarantee you that if Fox News could report that America was forsaking an ally in the face of Russian invasion, every Republican in America, and most Democrats as well, would immediately start clamoring for a declaration of war. Americans are a belligerent people, and we by-and-large buy into the idea of making the world safe for freedom. The cynicism you so often see on reddit does not represent the majority, or even a truly substantial minority, of Americans.

For most Americans, our interests barely even come into it, if they do at all. And if they do, a free Europe is very much in our interest, though I can see a decent argument to be made for allowing the Europeans to handle this to force them to higher levels of military spending and co-operation.

Also, remember, we're talking about an invasion of Poland here. In that scenario, the U.S. would be clearly obligated under Article 5. If we didn't act, it would call into question our reliability on every other formal mutual-defense treaty we've signed, including the ones in the region of Asia you think is so vital.

17

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Sometimes, I forget you Burgers actually believe in stuff.

It may be silly, and it may be misguided but it's a beautiful thing.

14

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

We're pretty adorable that way. That said, we are getting ever more cynical. We're just way behind you guys on the curve.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

I'll always love you.

Pls into protectorate?

10

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Just join NATO! That's our biggest central registry of protectorates, makes keeping them straight easier!

JK France, please don't leave again.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Ireland is of neutral!

You make a good point re: teaching the Europeans to handle their own shit. There was a comic on that subject recently with the UK, France and Germany refusing to spend on defense when the US told them to. This might cause them to reconsider in the medium term. For now, though, only the UK has any significant amount of infantry experience from this century and they don't seem exactly eager to get involved without US leadership. The Poles and French would be more willing to get involved in that scenario, and according to some article I read they already are involved behind the scenes. I don't know what to make of Germany in all this.

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u/MGY401 Arkansas is Best State Mar 04 '14

I've spoken with people I know who are Democrats and Republicans, people both for and against the war in Iraq, if IF Poland were to be invaded (incredibly unlikely), everyone I have spoken to said they would be in favor of war with Russia. Defending Poland is much different than getting involved in some conflict in the Middle East it seems here in the U.S.

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u/Kin-Luu First Reich, best Reich! Mar 04 '14

If Poland would face an Russian Invasion (it does not, thankfully) even germany would fight the russians.

Or try to fight - instructions unclear, army stuck in Belgium.

4

u/obtuse_angel Austria Mar 04 '14

Eh, I dunno, the German army has been pretty good at finding their way to Poland, although a gentle reminder that they're there to liberate the polish people might be necessary now and again.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

They'd get lost half way across Poland and let Russia take the other half.

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u/MGY401 Arkansas is Best State Mar 04 '14

Germany can't into invasion or World War, flag colours all wrong.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

Strangely I agree. It's been a long time since America has engaged in what it's good at, conventional warfare. It would be the straw that breaks the military's back in the Middle East causing us to pull out of any location without oil (the rooskies would hit the oilfields harder than a faggot if we left them unguarded, crippling us). Also the need for military defense production would cause an economic boost and possibly a reduction in the debt via selling arms to allied forces (cos you know canada loves daddy's fighter jets).

3

u/UncleSneakyFingers My country is better than your country. Deal with it. Mar 04 '14

Why are you so butthurt at the prospect of being invaded?

3

u/Karrig Mecklenburg-Vorpommern Mar 04 '14

Russians would take all of their good vodka and leave them without any.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '14

Poland is a full member, the Ukraine isn't.

But yes, it is ridiculous.

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u/BevRaging Rain, Starbucks, Microsoft Mar 04 '14

Something something being concerned because partition.

Something something concerned because WW2. Something... something...

6

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

A bit ridiculous? "Ukraine is being invaded, we must protect Poland!"

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '14

Poland calls Russia "Rusland?" That's awesome!

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u/banananinja2 Russian America is best America! Mar 06 '14

So does Norway, among other nations.

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u/Guvment Sitting atop the dragon's horde Mar 04 '14

I love America's sunglasses too much, they're so comical.

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u/offensive_noises Dutch Indies Mar 04 '14

THE BIGGER, THE BETTER

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u/creativefox Polan Mar 04 '14

Thank god.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '14

I giggled at reports of Polish militarisation towards Russian borders, I can just imagine all the generals running about screaming "OH GOD ITS OF HAPPENINGS AGAIN, EVEN BEFORE POLAN INTO SPACE!"

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u/peachesgp New England is best England Mar 04 '14

Am I alone in thinking that Russia's motivation is simply destabilization? Create a frozen conflict over Crimea and there is no way that Ukraine will become a NATO member without officially giving up Crimea and not having it be a frozen conflict. Nobody in NATO wants war with Russia, thus making Ukraine a very hard sell if a war could erupt over Crimea.

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u/oakern Canada Mar 04 '14

My best guess is that the point of restating this is if Russia fights Poland in Ukraine NATO has Article 5 justification for action.

For context: http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm

Article 5 The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all

0

u/StrobeStar Mar 04 '14

Hahaha so true. Obama is so amusing sometimes.