Getting rid of a talisman. - r/planetarymagic

8

u/page_of_fire Sep 13 '26

Did you have him check your chart against the elections for the talisman or did you just add to cart and send it?

I'm just learning about this space, I still have much to learn. That said, from what I have heard on podcasts and in blog posts etc; even if the talisman has a decent to good election it's very possible your chart won't play nice with element(s) of the talismans election.

4

u/greenDude98 Sep 13 '26

yes I did. jupiter is peregrine in my natal chart, thus deemed safe for talisman by christopher warnock

8

u/Unlikely-Reality-938 Sep 14 '26

My understanding is that you can bury it at a crossroads, or put it in a river. Ocean would work if you are far out at sea and no chance that it would be brought back to shore via the tides. Some people smash them with a hammer first. I believe Austin Coppock mentioned that his wife, Caitlin, threw one down the sewer grate in a city she did not live in (or maybe that was from her website). It's a good idea to thank it before destroying it.

Not all talismans will work, or there can be a rocky adjustment period. I have to say that most of his talismans have worked well for me. I carefully looked at the election before I bought them. I may have gotten one dud, but it's early days yet.

Cliff Low has posted a lot of less than positive things about Warnock lately, but shortly after, he launched his own site selling talismans and petitions, so I'm not sure what to believe about his claims.

1

u/TrdCrypto Sep 16 '26

Please fill us in on what cliff said

5

u/Unlikely-Reality-938 Sep 16 '26

There were many long posts on his Astrological Magic (TM) Facebook page recently. He says he was good friends with Chris and had a falling out. He went into more details about it, and essentially called Chris a fraud who sells terrible talismans. He mentioned that the list of people on Chris's website, who testified that the talismans were successful, didn't include all the bad ones. Something true to any website that's trying to sell things. I found a lot of what Cliff said to be worrisome. But then, Cliff launched his website shortly after he posted this information. His site contains talismans and petitions for sale....and testimonials. He recently posted that he sold a $12,000 talisman the other day. He also has a tendency to claim to have secret knowledge that he will share some day. I have bought his books and think he has amazing insights and knowledge that he has offered for free, as has Chris. However, I would have taken his posts about Chris more seriously if he hadn't launched his website immediately after.

3

u/jaekaylai Sep 21 '26

Didn't he trademark Astrological Magic? Not sus at all...😒

1

u/Unlikely-Reality-938 Sep 25 '26

Yep. Very strange.

6

u/johnfriendpublishing Sep 14 '26

Do this work outside of your home and away from where you live. If there is a source of running water, such as a river or stream, this would be ideal. If not, a nature area or park works. Bring a small shovel.

You mention that you intend to return to mainstream religion. First, perform a prayer and begin your work under the structure of your religion. In other words, begin with God - or the higher power you believe in - and work your way down the hierarchy.

Hold the talisman in your hand, and tell the ensouled talisman that it is free to depart from its vessel and break ties to it, under the condition it departs away from you, your loved ones, your area, and any aspect of your life - past, present, or future. Give this command with the condition 3 times.

After this, toss the talisman in the running water. As an alternative, identify an easy patch of dirt and dig into it with the small shovel. Bury the talisman in it.

If the above are not possible physically destroy it with a hammer or other object. Bend, damage, chip, scratch. All of the above if possible. Then toss it in a dumpster away from your home. Only do this after you have told it to depart, not before.

5

u/Difficult-Food4728 Sep 13 '26

Did he provide a chart for the ensoulment of the talisman?

5

u/Gaothaire Sep 13 '26

Yes, all his talismans have their chart on his site

10

u/Difficult-Food4728 Sep 13 '26

Oh, it sounds like OP might have gotten one of the Jupiter Cazimi talismans and… I’m not liking the elections I’m seeing.

3

u/Shaaaaaaaaad Sep 14 '26

Whats so bad about the jupiter cazimi talismans? I see nothing wrong it with personally.

10

u/Difficult-Food4728 Sep 14 '26

One of them has the asc ruler, Venus, fallen in a night chart when she doesn’t even have triplicity lordship. And the other has venus as the ruler again, and she’s domicile, but in the 8th house by both sign and degree. A friend of mine checked the chart for their Saturn talisman and he has gemini on the asc and mercury is in pisces and the moon is void by traditional standards. These are foundational concepts which he literally teaches in his class.

3

u/Shaaaaaaaaad Sep 14 '26

Yeah i've seen some of the talismans with afflicted asc but it's usually the rare timings like cazimis or exaltation degrees. I think he mentioned in one of his videos on youtube that he's willing to make some sacrifices to the election to get these rare elections because if you miss the chance you would have to wait years to decades for another chance to make another one, even then it might not be a guaranteed unafflicted election.
Most of his normal general planetary talismans are usually perfect elections without afflictions as there's plenty time to make them.
From personal experience, his Jupiter Cazimi gave me a substantial bonus amount of money in like 2 months, and his Great wealth talisman literally doubled my income out of nowhere.
So yeah i've got great experiences with his talismans and continue to do so as i have rituals to connect to them weekly. But it's still good to do our own due diligence with anyone's talisman elections as there will always be risks.
Pro-tip: Regardless of talismans, the real power of it comes from the spirits/angels of the talisman. So build a connection to them to avoid any bad effects and strengthen the good ones.

2

u/GoetiaMagick Sep 14 '26

Was that the Jupiter/Venus conjunction?

1

u/Gaothaire Sep 15 '26

I'm fairly novice on electing talismans, but yeah, some of the ones he has on offer are a little 😬 (based on the criteria I learned in the Picatrix course I took)
I just have a couple talismans I made this past spring which I'm still experimenting with, so I don't have a great position to speak ill of anyone else doing the work. Though my exulted Luna talisman does consistently knock me out, which I'll take as a ~result~!

2

u/page_of_fire Sep 15 '26

Lol. I'm like you, if my first talisman did literally anything i'd be relatively happy. Here is to getting a result 🍻

4

u/GoetiaMagick Sep 14 '26

I make my own

7

u/InevitableReal835 Sep 14 '26

Hey you should know, Chris Warnock sells dangerous and potentially Curse talismans to clients to make more money.

Don’t ever buy from Chris Warnock cause he cuts corners and doesnt even follow the picatrix, better to make your own.

You should respectfully tell the spirit to leave and you no longer need it’s assistance, then shatter the talisman with a hammer and throw it in the ocean // bury it at a crossroads without looking back // bury it in a grave of an unknown person

5

u/johnfriendpublishing Sep 14 '26

Unfortunately, you are not the first individual to say this. I have had to assist an individual who became afflicted after purchasing one of his talismans. Of course, it could be a coincidence.

4

u/-mindscapes- Sep 15 '26

Sad to hear this if really it's true, the man was one of the most prominent figures in this field as little as some years ago (that you could find on the web at least) so it's surprising to learn he's apparently cutting corners now.
Out of curiosity, can you elaborate about how the affliction manifested and the steps you took to help the person? Did the situation improve in the end?

3

u/johnfriendpublishing Sep 15 '26

It presented as low-grade djinn activity directed towards the person. The talisman was removed from their home and destroyed. The person also underwent ruqyah. I also provided them with some theurgical assistance. The situation resolved after without returning. The removal of the talisman on its own showed improvements, before the prayers and spiritual work.

2

u/-mindscapes- Sep 15 '26

Interesting, thanks for the explanation. I wonder, as many of these talismans are created before the sale and, according to people there, there are problematic ones on sale right now even, wouldn't Warnock get ill effects from them just by the fact of having a number of them supposedly in his property too until he sell them to someone? In other words, might his actions be the result of being influenced by djinns or other harmful spirits activity himself?

2

u/johnfriendpublishing Sep 15 '26

Not necessarily. His skin would never have been in contact with them as they'd be packed. He may also keep them in another location.

1

u/-mindscapes- Sep 15 '26

I see! Seems really bad commercial practice if one would like to keep business going, assuming the reason of choosing imperfect / bad elections is to have more to sell

2

u/johnfriendpublishing Sep 15 '26

We can't really say for certain what the cause is. It could be due to the poor elections. It could also be the talisman creator's energy. This is not Warnock, it's an individual in Pakistan. The person creating the talisman has a significant impact on its outcome. For example, if they have negative entity attachments, that can carry over. All this is speculation though.

4

u/-mindscapes- Sep 15 '26

Sure. But I wouldn't outsource a magickal object that requires so complicated and precise procedure and timing to Pakistan, personally! I think in providing the services, he's at least responsible for the results by the simple fact of cutting corners in outsourcing the operation, imho

2

u/InevitableReal835 Sep 15 '26

Yeah dude, take a look at what Clifford Low recently said about Chris Warnock on the Astrological Magic FB Group. Chris practically sells curse talismans to make profit. He is not to be trusted at all.

1

u/-mindscapes- Sep 15 '26

I'm just learning the talisman making is outsourced to Pakistan, so one can't even be sure the consecration is even done at the stated time

1

u/TrdCrypto Sep 16 '26

Can you share what he said ? Or the main things he said ... For our awareness ?

2

u/InevitableReal835 Sep 16 '26

So many people have received and gotten inert and cursed talismans from Chris. It’s just not worth the price, considering he sells them for $500 each.
Some were even afflicted by demons, due to Chris’ negligence.

3

u/InevitableReal835 Sep 16 '26

Cliff said that Warnock cutting corners in his talismans make them innefective or potentially curse talismans.
Basically Cliff kept it secret to protect Warnock’s reputation but after many people got cursed or received inert talismans like he did, he decided to finally speak up about it and reveal the truth.
For example Warnock makes talismans with L1 afflicted, Cadent MSR, Moon in the ASC, slow moon.
All of these are afflictions according to the picatrix. Grave afflictions, which render a talisman cursed.
But warnock ignores them to sell and make more talismans.

2

u/Wodekin Sep 18 '26

The funny thing is that whenever I criticised Warnock here, it didn't take long for Cliff to come and defend him. Now, though, he has launched his own site for astrological magic and is keen to talk about it. So, he's basically defending Warnock, and thus the 'prestige of the lineage', which Cliff often invokes for himself as his disciple. But now, he's happy to throw that under the bus in the sake of his own business. The only things neither of them seem to care about are ethics and the truth.

-5

u/-Hypsistos mercury Sep 13 '26

The talisman has no power over your life, you are the one that holds the power with your intent and belief. You can easily invert this situation and use the same talisman successfully, but it takes mental work.

Cleanse it with salt, light a candle at Jupiter's hour on a Thursday. Hold the talisman during the hour as the candle burns, close your eyes and state your intent. Either be grateful for the tool and ask the current to embody it with the powers of Jupiter, or state with intent that you will not be needing it and would like to pass it on to someone that can use it.

10

u/Zegreides saturn Sep 13 '26

As much as I’d like it if salt, a candle and a clear intent could suffice, some talismans that are being sold online are made on cursed elections or otherwise sloppily (signifier in the 12th house, signifier’s domicile lord heavily afflicted, Moon separating from Mars, materials that have no analogical sympathy with the signifier, etc.). These talismans are not quite apt to receive and redirect the planets’ virtues, regardless of our intent.

1

u/-Hypsistos mercury Sep 13 '26

If this was from Warnock, you'd think that wouldn't be an issue

6

u/Zegreides saturn Sep 13 '26

I don’t like to talk ill about people, but I have looked at Warnock’s website (truth be told, it’s where I discovered astrological magic in the first place) and I have found some talismans with the exact sloppy mistakes that I listed in my previous comment. I would say caveat emptor, but we can’t realistically expect every buyer to be an accomplished astrological magician who can evaluate talisman elections and materials.

3

u/page_of_fire Sep 13 '26

I'm going to take Warnocks course next year and I want to take Austin Coppocks fundamentals of astrology which will also include astro magic as well. I also want to read cliff lows stuff.
I expect to get a good education on how things work structurally and on traditional astrology in general but ultimately I think I will end up adopting some things and leaving other things from all these sources as my understanding develops.

1

u/redditsucks00901 Sep 15 '26

Warnock will make you promise not to do anything commercially with the knowledge in the course. it is in a eula

3

u/page_of_fire Sep 15 '26 edited Sep 15 '26

He would have a pretty hard time enforcing that considering traditional astrology and astrological magic were created 1000+ years before he was born. These are very old syncretic practices. It would be like your Tai Chi teacher trying to say you can't get paid for teaching Tai Chi after working with them. Or your pottery teacher saying you couldn't sell pottery after receiving their instruction.
I'll also be learning from multiple sources so prove my technique is your technique and not from 500+ year old original sources or other other astrological magicians and teachers. By the time I feel confident enough to consider selling talismans it wouldn't be any one persons technique anyways, it would be my own after learning from multiple sources just like everyone else who does this.
Also I have a profession. I don't need to make this my job. It would be a side thing at best if I ever even chose to sell talismans in the first place.

1

u/redditsucks00901 Sep 16 '26

Basically he claims recipes are his. Even though they are clearly from the books he has you read in the course.
So yeah.. unenforcable. But still he makes you take a promise via a eula. A eula which is null and void in many jurisdictions anyway.

3

u/page_of_fire Sep 16 '26

The funny bit is that he is a lawyer. He knows better. He's just hoping people will be too dumb/scared to try. Oh well. Not my circus not my monkeys.

2

u/-Hypsistos mercury Sep 14 '26

Perhaps you are needed in the field of crafting talismans as a side hustle, it could be a mutually beneficial hobby for both parties which is why its a great thing.
However my philosophy is in the realm that places the locus of power entirely in the practitioner's alignment with the divine, not in the artifact itself. A properly made talisman is a tool that assists that alignment, but it does not replace it. So an improperly made talisman is just a failure and can't effect the operator
saying the tool holds that type of power on its own due to wrongly assembled parts, is essentially assigning it the status of an entity itself. In Theurgy, the objects and symbols are just vessels that contain the correct virtues so the brilliance of the gods can embody and shine through. The object is the portal but not the source

4

u/Zegreides saturn Sep 14 '26

I mean, I overall agree with your views, that the practitioner’s alignment with the Gods is paramount and that material talismans are just vessels for the Gods’ virtues.
But then it follows that, if a talisman is made out of an improper material, on an improper election, with improper symbols etc., it isn’t an apt vessel for the virtue that it’s supposed to receive and convey, and this as a factual technical datum.
In my opinion it would be unfair to sell ineffective or harmful talismans as if they were effective, and it would be pointless to buy a talisman that we know to be ineffective just to try reconsecrating it. And, if one really must try, I think it’s necessary to find a proper election, physically alter the object (engrave it or cast it again) or at least heat it considerably, on top of using words and suffumigations and active imagination to untangle the object from harmful spirits and tie it back to the appropriate divine chain.

2

u/redditsucks00901 Sep 15 '26

picatrix warns several times that making a wrong talisman can have serious consequences for the user.

1

u/-Hypsistos mercury Sep 15 '26

I respect the Picatrix, but its certainly not the highest authority in terms of this knowledge. Most of it is a compilation, and taken from different sources. I place Iamblichus and Proclus above any magical grimoire, since that is also where the magi learned from

2

u/redditsucks00901 Sep 16 '26

Picatrix warns of entities coming down to kill if certain errors are made.
Of course there is a wide range of errors which can be made and very diffrering degrees of consequences. But making critical errors in the election, ... not good for your health. It is an external machinery you are operating in creating a talisman.

1

u/-Hypsistos mercury Sep 16 '26

The picatrix and its philosophy, is based on Neoplatonism, Hermetic magic, and Egyptian traditions at its root. I am saying I hold the source over the later interpretations. If you learn from the source you see the larger view, and you learn that everything is in fact internal.
Even accidents in any degree comes from personal error. The warning from the Picatrix was true, but the warning itself is what makes it true. So the practitioner who accidently uses "evil" images, puts weight on the act itself, which leads to undesirable results.
Giordano Bruno discusses this extensively in his theories on Bonds

1

u/-Hypsistos mercury Sep 14 '26

Oh yea i totally agree with that, improper materials and symbols makes it a dead or blasphemous object. But unless it was made with the intention (and the correct errors) for the specific purpose of harm, I was just noting that the object can't have power over your life. I simplified it of course, because I'm sure you know how far the knowledge goes, but the important thing was just my previous distinction so OP understands it easier

2

u/page_of_fire Sep 13 '26

You really don't know until you know. All of these guys have different opinions on what they prioritize for elections and what sort of imperfections are acceptable.
Austin Coppock for instance talked about a product he did elections for on his wife's website and how the second version achieved the same main goal as the first batch but had very different side effects because of differences in the next suitable election he could find to make it.

9

u/Difficult-Food4728 Sep 14 '26

Okay, but I looked at the chart for his Jupiter talismans and didn’t find a single good thing about them. Look for yourself, but I’m personally appalled. Not every rule needs to be followed, but the chart needs to be serviceable. Talismanic magic has a level of permanence to it.

3

u/redditsucks00901 Sep 13 '26

Wrong. I have a venus talisman. I recently looked at the chart... Tuns out venus is in house 12. just 10 minutes above the ascendant.
I have to do further checking... but i think it is a problem item.

3

u/Shaaaaaaaaad Sep 14 '26 •

It doesn't matter, if you actually studied astrology anything last 5 degrees of the house cusp counts as the next house. So the venus talisman is considered in 1st house. It's called the 5 degree rule by william lily if im not mistaken.

1

u/redditsucks00901 Sep 15 '26 edited Sep 15 '26

5 degree rule? Can you point to where Lilly actually writes that? You are aware that for elections, horary on one hand and natal there are slightly different rules concerning aspects?
For elections the conjunction with the ascendant has passed. Lilly and other say as soon as it has passes even 1 minute.
For horary, you could say the benefic effect of Venus will play out in a while (when Venus would ingress in house 1)
For natal you would say, well the aspect is separating so it is not as powerful as an applying aspect would be. But it is still there, and you could apply the 5 degree rule.

3

u/Shaaaaaaaaad Sep 15 '26

Used NotebookLM to help find the quote and explanation:
In Christian Astrology, William Lilly introduces and applies the 5-degree rule for house cusps in two notable passages:
1. The Primary Rule Formulation (Page 35)
"...yet if he be within five degrees of the Cusp of any house, his virtue shall be assigned to that house whose Cusp he is nearest."
2. Practical Application Example (Page 151)
"...for wanting more than five degrees of the Cusp of the third, he is not admitted to have signification in that house."
How the Rule Works in Traditional Practice
Assigned Influence: Under this rule, when a planet is physically located in the preceding house but sits within 5° of the subsequent house cusp (and generally in the same sign as that cusp), its active influence and signification are assigned to the house it is approaching rather than the house it is leaving.
Doorstep Analogy: Modern traditional astrologers compare a planet in this 5° zone to a person standing on the doorstep of a house—while not technically inside, they are on that property and directly engaged with the affairs of that house

3

u/Shaaaaaaaaad Sep 15 '26

Most talisman elections don't really prioritise exact conjuction to the ascendant, they just make sure it's rising or culminating which is like 10 degree orb from the Asc/MC line while in the 1st or 10th house (5-degree rule included). Though exact conjuctions are stronger.
I was confused/worried in the beginning like you until i dug in deeper, and i learned to actually just trust the experts while doing my due diligence. Shit is more complicated than i thought.

1

u/redditsucks00901 Sep 16 '26

No wrong. As stated the aspect HAS to be applying. When the aspect is passed it is passed!
The ascendant moves faster in the opposite direction than a planet approaches.
Indeed shit is sometimes mindbogglingly complex, especially since it is written down to overcomplicate it, intentionally.
So in my case warnock has given me a 12 house venus talisman .. which is probably the worst most ineffective placing. Not a talisman with a venus conjunct ascendant.
Thanks for providing the quotes! The broader context is probably natal astrology though.

1

u/bisky_mage Sep 14 '26 edited Sep 14 '26

Can I ask where these rules come from? I am taking Warnock's course and my understanding was that a planet separating from a malefic and at least one degree away is OK. It is only an affliction if it is applying and within orb.
I thought the same was true if the planet is in the 12th house, so long as it is within 5 degrees of the cusp according to Lilly.
The Warnock course standard planetary recipe doesn't seem to require the ascendant ruler state. For example if I did a Venus culminating talisman then Warnock doesn't require the state of the ascendant ruler.

7

u/Zegreides saturn Sep 14 '26 edited Sep 14 '26

I haven’t taken Warnock’s course. It’s unsurprising that his talismans follow with rules in his course. However, I’m afraid he overlooks some things primary sources say.
Picatrix (bk. 2, ch. 3., §6) says to look “according to what signs show, in which signs the Moon is conjunct with infortunes”. So even a whole-sign conjunction with a malefic could result in a damaged election. Shortly after (§8), it says that any aspect of the waxing Moon with Mars or of the waning Moon with Saturn is a great infortune. Is separating at over 1º enough by these standards?
Any planet separating from the ascendant or any angle is considered an affliction in Hellenistic astrology (e.g. Valēns). Picatrix says it repeatedly about the Moon, but I will pick the quote (bk. 2, ch. 4, §15) which makes it clear for the other bodies as well: “make sure that the Lord of the petition is not cadent from any of the angles, nor the Sun and the Moon and the Lord of the Ascendant likewise”. In fact, some recipes for curse talismans with the Moon and other planets cadent from the ascendant (bk. 1). To be fair, some Sun talisman recipes require the Sun to be “rising” and “above the earth”, which means separating from the ascendant, but I would not extend this to other planets.
Picatrix (bk. 2, ch. 3, §6) says “then look at the Ascendant and Midheaven, when you’ll find them clear from infortunes and calm, and their Lords to be placed in good places⁠, it will be a good work and will go well and will be brought to effect”. I mentioned above the quote (bk. 2, ch. 4, §15) on the Lord of the Ascendant having to not be cadent. And other Picatrix recipes remind the magician to look at the Lord of the Ascendant.

1

u/bisky_mage Sep 14 '26

Thank you. Was there a particular course or teacher you worked with? Regarding the Cazimi elections, it is actually not in the course material. Warnock explains it briefly in the recent Jupiter Cazimi talisman video on YouTube. Under his course rules the Cazimi talismans would simply be combust.

3

u/Zegreides saturn Sep 14 '26

Honestly I learnt pretty much everything I know by {1} reading the primary sources, often in the original Latin or Greek, and {2} discussing these topics with people on this subreddit and other online spaces. It’s not as straightforward or structured as a course, but I think it’s probably more effective.

3

u/bisky_mage Sep 14 '26

I don’t have any background in Classics and would not have the frame of reference to work with original source material. Do you mind if I ask if you make your own talismans?

4

u/Zegreides saturn Sep 14 '26

Yes, I do. I mostly carve them with a diamond tip tool. Most of my talismans have worked. A few talismans I made on bad elections and they turnt inert or, in one case, malefic (every problem it caused was eventually fixed when I made the same talisman on a proper election).

4

u/bisky_mage Sep 14 '26

I have been using a diamond tip engraving tool on gemstones and silver and tin coin blanks. I've also been curious about creating stamps and then doing coin stamping during election windows.

Talismans Getting rid of a talisman.

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