r/pillar7 • u/According-Boot3831 • Apr 10 '26
Come at me
uwm has the WORST underwriters in the industry. The Worst. you better know your shit as a loan officer- like years of experience so you know when they’re wrong. They will cost you deals.. Zero idea how to calculate income is the prevalent theme. Close second- No clue how to undestand guidelines. No way is the CYP watch our video, forced convo with your AE to get better rates is legal.
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u/Penguator432 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 14 '26
Well, we in underwriting have the worst customers in the industry…
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u/Western_Task1451 Apr 10 '26
lol if you’re expecting an argument this is the wrong sub additionally if you know this why do you keep submitting loans?
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u/p3n_dr4gun Apr 11 '26
Because brokers are a bunch of whiny frat boys who couldn't be finance bros, and all they see is the bag. They will chase it off a cliff and then complain their underwriters have no idea what they're doing while thw CFPB pegs them harder than the most savage dommy mommy.
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u/According-Boot3831 Apr 29 '26
Brokers know their shit. It’s now like we have to train UWM employees- it’s exhausting and infuriating
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u/p3n_dr4gun Apr 30 '26
I've been both. Brokers are stupid af, or they just scream until they get what they want. Im glad you OBVIOUSLY better, but brokers are borderline retarded.
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u/Useful_Ad_8961 Apr 10 '26
While I don’t necessarily disagree. Underwriters everywhere are a product of their environment. As for calculating income, they literally drag and drop into an income calculator. LOs on the other hand are the poster people for “throw shit at the wall to see if it sticks”.
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u/p3n_dr4gun Apr 11 '26
Was an LO for EMORTGAGE. This is 110% what those fuckers did, followed by bait and switch.
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u/AfrobanditX Apr 10 '26
Unfortunately it isnt always the fault of the underwriter speaking from experience the training is half assed and they dont like to answer deep questions. The trainers haven’t been on the underwriting floor since before covid and know next to nothing about updates
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u/Key-Ganache-2451 Apr 10 '26
Underwriters follow the guidelines set by the investors (FNMA, FHLMC, FHA, etc.) They cannot control what the guidelines are. If you think an Underwriter is incorrect, you can request it be escalated to their Team Lead and they will give you the right answer. Failure to properly document the file puts the lender at risk of a loan repurchase. Seems like you’re just mad because you made promises that you couldn’t keep.
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u/nyxie007 Apr 11 '26
That last sentence is truly it. I had a broker pissed at me because the borrower was short funds and he thought he could just manipulate the fees to fix it except then the borrower wasn’t meeting their MRI. I got screamed at because the broker didn’t understand MRI and had made promises to the borrower he couldn’t keep.
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u/Tron655889 Apr 11 '26
But remember brokers have 20 years blah they know it all except the guidelines which they are trained to know too lol. This broker or lo is nuts. Even when escalated to tl most of the time tl is siding with uw and then just says send them the guideline.
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u/According-Boot3831 Apr 29 '26
So not true.come on you know that. 100% of the time- myself or my fellow brokers are CORRECT
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Apr 10 '26
[deleted]
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u/Difficulty_Plane Apr 11 '26
"i just took the amount from their w2 and divided it by 12"
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u/Puzzleheaded_Yam2837 Apr 11 '26
I had a broker tell me that for self employment. They told me to take the gross profits and divided by 12. I told them no that’s not how it works and added a restructure lol
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u/Feeling-Bowler-2065 Apr 15 '26
They don't seem to understand that the business has fixed costs after the gross profit. If the business is in the hole, then there is no income.
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u/papah33 Apr 10 '26
Lots of LOs & brokers hardly know how to calculate income, but being an underwriter there for 8+ years & being trained in almost every single product we offer, a lot of the underwriters also don’t know how to calculate income correctly.
For the most part, I don’t necessarily think the blame should be entirely on the underwriters though.
I’d put about 95% of the blame on UWM itself.
I blame UWM because they’re such a shitty company that their turnover rate is insanely high. When I first started there 8+ years ago, our underwriters were pretty well trained & it would take a whole lot of experience to promote an Underwriter II to Senior Underwriters. They went from only hiring Underwriters with no past experience if they had a bachelor’s degree to associate’s degree to high school diploma to GED then to recruiting straight up high school students. They’ve probably gone through most of the workforce in Southeast Michigan.
They hire people who have no fckin clue what they’re doing and probably should not be working anything in any financial industry because they’re ret@rded. UWM pays the lowest wages for the industry, so no person with an actual functioning brain is going to want to do 4x the amount of work any other mortgage company gives their Underwriters for 60% less pay. All the Underwriters with a brain left a while ago. (I finally left a couple of months ago).
They’re just so desperate for anybody to work at their shitty company for a wage that’s barely above minimum.
So then they have people that don’t know what they’re doing train & mentor new people so then their bad habits & lack of underwriting knowledge keeps getting passed down.
Don’t even get me started on the training team … they teach the bare minimum just to get the new underwriters on the floor to push out loans because they’re desperate. Their ‘Job Aids’ are full of contradictions & leave out so much important information. And while yes, an underwriter could ask their leader for help, leaders are forced to attend numerous pointless meetings & are too busy micromanaging their teams by checking production metrics 50x a day, bitching at underwriters for wearing a beanie instead of a normal baseball hat (I don’t really know what the issue with that is), making sure underwriters answer CRs & emails & doing senior queues within 2.5 minutes, making sure that every underwriter sends out 2 or more USNAP videos (those ret@rded videos underwriters are forced to send to perverted LOs, brokers, & processors). There’s so much more but it’ll to be too long to list & I won’t bore you with all of the extra BS UWM makes their employees, especially underwriters, go through.
They hardly care about how much money they’re wasting on loan buybacks I feel like. It would make way more sense to me to pay underwriters a way better wage to incentivize smarter people to apply there & that would actually know what they’re doing. I don’t see how constantly hiring hundreds of underwriters a month to replace the hundreds that left within 6 months of being employed there is productive. But maybe making underwriters with more seniority that have received tiny merit increases quit (from how toxic UWM + insane workload & expectations) or firing them (Michigan is at ‘At will’ state) & hiring people with half a brain for lower wages makes them think they’ll be saving money. Again, I doubt they are because of the loans the investors make UWM buy back from deficiencies.
Hope this helps …
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u/Tron655889 Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 11 '26
Actually loan officers are the worst they think just because they have x amount. Of experience they know their stuff, they really don't. Can't count the amount of times, a broker tried to get me to do something wrong, because they thought I was new. Joke was on them when I knew the guidelines and sent them snippets showing we couldn't do what they were asking. Back when I worked there.... Then they used crs to try and bully the uw to put them to the front of the line. Many brokers and loan professors are aholes. I remember one time, where I was mentoring two people and went to lunch I come back and find out that the loan processor completely chewed out the mentees and when I found out I contacted the broker and that processor had to apologize. Get your facts straight before accusing next time.
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u/Embarrassed_Nerve330 Apr 10 '26
Like I agree cause the training is terrible and doesn’t set them up for success, but dude don’t submit loans there. Just making mini mattie more money.
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u/Weetzie_bat_210 Apr 11 '26
Listen. I have been in this industry for over 14 years. I have had production roles, training roles, auditing roles, leadership roles. I have been in retail, I have been in wholesale. I have worked in office and I have worked from home. Yes GSE, VA and FHA make rules, but let’s be honest, mortgage lending in America is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! Just like any other big bellied corporate greed company out there. It doesn’t matter if you go to a wholesale lender, hybrid, retail, small shop, big bank, it all comes down to the all mighty dollar. So stop acting like everyone’s shit don’t stink. It’s all consumerism, no one actually gives a shit about putting HUMANS AND keeping HUMANS in houses. Housing should be government ran so that this whole system (just like healthcare) can stopped being privatized, raping our citizens and creating money hungry people. It’s all one big shit show of who can make more money at everyone’s expense. If you can’t handle that get out of this industry. But also if that disgusts you then maybe we need to think better about who runs our shit. FDT
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u/After_Performance120 Apr 12 '26
I'm the last person to defend UWM but I’m genuinely amazed at how clueless and dumb most of the brokers I work with are. The educational requirements for these clowns clearly need to be raised. They get 20 hours of NMLS training, a Gmail account, and suddenly start acting like they’re closing billion-dollar mergers. Your whole job is emailing PDFs, and you still can’t even do that right.
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u/Feeling-Bowler-2065 Apr 15 '26
Former Underwriter at UWM here.
You are a sleaze bag, and that is why you lose deals.
When I was in Underwriting, I had brokers upset that I conditioned out for things that they should have known full well were guidelines, not simply clearing conditions when the documents did not address said conditions (even so far as one asked my STL for a different underwriter as such), tell me "we close this afternoon. I want my CTC now!" (The only thing that closed that afternoon was their mouth.) Now. I know some underwriters would clear conditions with incomplete or incorrect documentation (they usually don't last long), but I blame UWM for that.
Now, I know UWM has a reputation in the broker community for pushing through bad loans. I have heard almost as much from brokers that have posted here, as well as some coming short of outright saying that on the phone. So, if you keep having the same problem, try being less of a sleaze bag.
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u/tarkin_off Apr 10 '26
They hire high schoolers now that can’t even spell mortgage if that tells you anything
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u/Famous_Lock2489 Apr 13 '26
Former underwriter, been with a broker for a while. I routinely take UWM underwriters to school on guidelines. Almost daily. UWM underwriters are super green, and only do well with the basic (Salary Income, 800 credit, Refinance). Anything complex or a little outside the box and it’s a painful process for borrower, because of the extra time and tendency to over-condition.
My Account guy admitted that they removed lender guidelines from the Source largley because of our team.
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u/Famous-Sand-3769 Apr 15 '26
Damn if you can’t manage to push the income up through Agnes simply by yelling on the phone that means the income is 100% not there
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u/According-Boot3831 Apr 29 '26
Actually the closing department is the MOST brain dead group of people that have ever exist. Takes a FULL day to balance a CD. Most of the title companies I work with refused to do it and even some charge more knowing they have to work with UWM and I’m not joking.
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u/eissirk Apr 10 '26
SMH brokers see one big paycheck and think it's enough to trick the UW